The couch thread

GoDogGo! · Post by **GoDogGo!** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 3:07 am

Lemon Magic wrote:Holy crap...this may be the first 1000 post thread on IG EVER.

And to think, I was there when it happened. Just like the great "Thundersnow" of Nov 1 1997, where 14 inches of snow overnight paralyzed Omaha

And I was there too, just like the Great Triangle Snow Gridlock of '05, when 1/2" of snow panicked everyone, and the resulting rush gridlocked the entire area for 8 hours! Children had to spend the night in school!

Okay, I wasn't there for that one, I was home in Durham, but I saw it on the news. Funny shit.

GDG!

Shafpocalypse Now · Post by **Shafpocalypse Now** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 6:15 pm

[img:250:188]http://www.crossfit.com/mt-archive2/triangle-th.jpg[/img]

Grandpa's Spells · Post by **Grandpa's Spells** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 6:18 pm

Shaf wrote:[img:250:188]http://www.crossfit.com/mt-archive2/triangle-th.jpg[/img]

"... Disco dancing, archery, rape, and table tennis."

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 6:44 pm

for that I would take up BJJ in a second. what a position $\:D/$

stosh · Post by **stosh** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 6:52 pm

[img:427:321]http://www.crossfit.com/journal/triangle.jpg[/img]

Fat Cat · Post by **Fat Cat** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 8:36 pm

And y'all made fun of my juju.

johno · Post by **johno** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 8:46 pm

Is he in her guard?

Fat Cat · Post by **Fat Cat** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 9:12 pm

Happily.

johno · Post by **johno** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 10:27 pm

I hate to change the topic from filth & hatin'...

BUT, it appears that some exercises are not very suitable for circuit/Xfit high rep type workouts...like deadlifts & squats.

Exercises more suited to circuits: pushups, situps, pullups, rockup squats.

Opinions?

Fat Cat · Post by **Fat Cat** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 11:19 pm

Do you really need someone to confirm what you just said?

nafod · Post by **nafod** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 12:42 am

johno wrote:...it appears that some exercises are not very suitable for circuit/Xfit high rep type workouts...like deadlifts & squats.

Exercises more suited to circuits: pushups, situps, pullups, rockup squats.

Opinions?

When I did the hi-rep deadlifts, I reset after every rep. Too high a potential for letting form slide otherwise (for me). I've since substituted lunges, one-legged deads, and other exercises for them.

But you'd really like something in the circuit to work the glute-ham part of things. It's a matter of choosing what. What would you say about front squats? Thrusters? Are you including bodyweight squats in with squats? Box jumps, medball tosses etc.

johno · Post by **johno** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:31 am

Fat Cat wrote:Do you really need someone to confirm what you just said?

Nope. Just looking for ammunition for my Xfit arsenal.
...and trying to support this, the greatest thread ever*.

*Greatest thread since "Is G a poser?"

johno · Post by **johno** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:34 am

Nafod, I'm just working BW squats into my routine, along with goblet squats to develop good form. If I did high rep Thrusters, I would use a medicine ball for a box-type squat, which should help protect the lower back.

szczepan · Post by **szczepan** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 3:58 am

http://www.crossfit.com/discus/messages/21/32622.html

keep an eye on this thread, a newcomer to @fit tries asking some reasonable questions of the moonies.

Shafpocalypse Now · Post by **Shafpocalypse Now** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:32 pm

Since I'm banned there, I'll answer them:

1. Do you all really think that CF increases absolute strength/mass better than BB'ing? If so, what evidence?

2. When assessing the increase in athletic performance created by CF, is there any room for absolute strength, as opposed to relative strength, or is CF focued on relative only?

3. I've read a lot of posts on the forums stating that mass is gained simply by eating more clean foods, however, I don't see how it would be functional muscle mass if you're only doing high reps?

4. Have any of the "high level" CF'rs, such as those in the videos, actually gained that level of size through CF, or were they big beforehand, and just shredded out and improved cardiovascular/athletic performance on CF?

1. It depends on if it's the worthless kind of bodybuilding you see the ignorant and unwashed in the gym perform, or the focused bodybuilding you see competitive bodybuilders do. The first is a "probably", the second is a resounding "no". This is readily apparent if you just look at a general cross-section of Crossfitters.

2. Crossfit is completely designed around relative strength and strength-endurance. The low rep WODs of the traditional powerlifts and Olympic lifts are a band-aid that attempts to obscure this fact. Increases in maximal strength are only acquired "accidentally" by the novice and neophyte, or severely detrained.

3. The whole "functional mass" mantra is bullshit and catchphrase. Functional for what? Functional mass is one thing if you are a football player, and it's another if you are an MMA fighter. Most Crossfitters become leaner and add some muscle because their training programs, pre-Crossfit, are so fucking shitty that anything would be better.

4. More than one of the really smart strength guys associated with Crossfit (Josh Everett, Robb Wolf, Mike Rutherford) have stated that the folks who get the most out of Crossfit are the ones who bring the most maximal strength to the program to begin with. This is because conditioning and strength-endurance is super easy to acquire when compared to maximal strength. So, the answer is "damn near every Crossfit stud was a stud before Crossfit." Including the women.

Shafpocalypse Now · Post by **Shafpocalypse Now** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:43 pm

This youtube vid is interesting.

Some of the power cleans are kind of ugly and round backed , because the power clean is a shitty fucking repetition move.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Vaz-Uy5B3tM& ... ed&search=

Jerk for is pretty crappy in two out of three.

And, finally, you can see Glassman stumping around in the background.

Wow, watching those vids is kind of eye-opening, because with all his talk if virtuosity, there's just a bunch of flailing going on.

I can't fault their "intensity" or willingness to go at it balls out though.

Batboy2/75 · Post by **Batboy2/75** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 3:42 pm

Shaf wrote:Since I'm banned there, I'll answer them:

1. Do you all really think that CF increases absolute strength/mass better than BB'ing? If so, what evidence?

2. When assessing the increase in athletic performance created by CF, is there any room for absolute strength, as opposed to relative strength, or is CF focued on relative only?

3. I've read a lot of posts on the forums stating that mass is gained simply by eating more clean foods, however, I don't see how it would be functional muscle mass if you're only doing high reps?

4. Have any of the "high level" CF'rs, such as those in the videos, actually gained that level of size through CF, or were they big beforehand, and just shredded out and improved cardiovascular/athletic performance on CF?
1. It depends on if it's the worthless kind of bodybuilding you see the ignorant and unwashed in the gym perform, or the focused bodybuilding you see competitive bodybuilders do. The first is a "probably", the second is a resounding "no". This is readily apparent if you just look at a general cross-section of Crossfitters.

2. Crossfit is completely designed around relative strength and strength-endurance. The low rep WODs of the traditional powerlifts and Olympic lifts are a band-aid that attempts to obscure this fact. Increases in maximal strength are only acquired "accidentally" by the novice and neophyte, or severely detrained.

3. The whole "functional mass" mantra is bullshit and catchphrase. Functional for what? Functional mass is one thing if you are a football player, and it's another if you are an MMA fighter. Most Crossfitters become leaner and add some muscle because their training programs, pre-Crossfit, are so fucking shitty that anything would be better.

4. More than one of the really smart strength guys associated with Crossfit (Josh Everett, Robb Wolf, Mike Rutherford) have stated that the folks who get the most out of Crossfit are the ones who bring the most maximal strength to the program to begin with. This is because conditioning and strength-endurance is super easy to acquire when compared to maximal strength. So, the answer is "damn near every Crossfit stud was a stud before Crossfit." Including the women.

Shaf,

By far the best description of what is wrong with @fit.

BB2/75

Shafpocalypse Now · Post by **Shafpocalypse Now** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 3:57 pm

I've been honing my chops, and got it down pretty good.

There are rebuffs to all my points, but they don't hold up under scrutiny.

Recognize that I don't feel that XF isn't all bad, it's mostly the personalities associated with it that irritates me.

Batboy2/75 · Post by **Batboy2/75** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 4:10 pm

Shaf wrote:I've been honing my chops, and got it down pretty good.

There are rebuffs to all my points, but they don't hold up under scrutiny.

Recognize that I don't feel that XF isn't all bad, it's mostly the personalities associated with it that irritates me.

@fit (or cross training as it used be called when Bo Jackson was around) is a great method for the average joe that doesn't have any specific goals or involved in a sport.

Unfortunately, glassman has turned crosstraining into a cult and convinced some very stupid people that a 115 pound girl doing kip pull ups is stronger than a 280 lb power lifter who's three combined lifts total more than the averge @fitters car.

BB2/75

Grandpa's Spells · Post by **Grandpa's Spells** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 4:20 pm

Unfortunately, glassman has turned crosstraining into a cult and convinced some very stupid people that a 115 pound girl doing kip pull ups is stronger than a 280 lb power lifter who's three combined lifts total more than the averge @fitters car.

Thees is true. If they framed their program like RKC, it would be a LOT more popular and reasonable. I'd say things would be fairly normal there if Robb was running the show, but I think he'd get Hillis'ed pretty quickly if anybody suggested it

nafod · Post by **nafod** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 4:33 pm

Shaf wrote:Since I'm banned there, I'll answer them:

I checked out the thread, and didn't see much difference between what the "koolaid drinkers" said and what you said, once you get past your bias. You tend to think the WOD is crossfit and vice versa (or so you said previously), which is not true, and that colors your commentary.

nafod · Post by **nafod** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 5:39 pm

Batboy2/75 wrote:@fit (or cross training as it used be called when Bo Jackson was around) is a great method for the average joe that doesn't have any specific goals or involved in a sport.

That's just dumb. Browse the Testimonials forum and you'll see goal-oriented. You'll also see how people modify crossfit for their sport. Visit the Gym Jones site. Or goggle on "crossfit challenge," a pile of goals which have run their course over the years I've been at it.

I like crossfit precisely because it supports and complements my sports. Skiing, kayaking, surfing, biking, climbing, yardwork, etc. Working out is not my sport, unlike powerlifting. It's a means to an end.

szczepan · Post by **szczepan** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 6:06 pm

nafod wrote:
Batboy2/75 wrote:@fit
That's just dumb.

I agree.

stosh · Post by **stosh** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 6:10 pm

nafod wrote:You'll also see how people modify crossfit for their sport.

This is where the whole thing gets way too convoluted. If powerlifting's your gig and you do the big three primarily with WOD's a couple days a week, are you 'doing Crossfit'? Or are you PL'ing with some added GPP work? Depends on your favorite flavor of Kool-Aid, of korse.

Like this dude:

http://www.crossfit.com/discus/messages/29/13339.html

He did the BP PTP/Ladder thing that the kid from East Tennesee wrote about in HardStyle, combined with some WOD's, and credits his success to CF. If he was drinking vodka and pickle juice, he'd be crediting Comrade Pavel.

Shafpocalypse Now · Post by **Shafpocalypse Now** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 6:11 pm

The whole "Crossfit is more than the WOD" is extremely misleading.

Glassman used to assert that the WOD was all anyone needed for S&C, way back when I first joined the fucking CF forum, back in 2002.

Now everyone just says "CF isn't the WOD" and is able to fit whatever the fuck they want into it whenever they want.

And they always pull out the Black Box ME shit to show. Well, BBME isn't fucking crossfit, it's basically a nice interpretation of Joe Kenn's stuff, which is a nice interpretation of Westside barbell's stuff, but without the speed work and with metcon programmed in.

I think the only thing I don't like about BBME is the frequency.

Dan John has the old OLAD + metcon plan too.