The couch thread

[Gin Master]

After a year or so most will either modify it beyond recognition it, scale it, or drop it for some other hardcore thing. A few will stay longer.

CF is the gateway drug of the fitness world. It's one of the few fitness programs where you can come in with no real goals (weight, performance, competition) and find some success (improved fitness, other shit). It beats the hell out of the typical 3 sets of 10 Hammer Strength circuit. After a few months, a number of people decide that they like Olifting, powerlifting, etc. and leave the flock. The concepts aren't bad, but the kool-aid is just too much.

Yes, I did the CF WOD for a few months before getting into other pursuits. I still integrate the occasional conditioning routine, but my current interests involve moving large objects--animate or inanimate, it doesn't matter.

[Anon]

NSFW and more On Topic than BOTO's numbas

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kEryR5wj9o[/youtube]

[Shafpocalypse Now]

Bill, you silly bastard, he's not being compared to a general population. Fuck, if so, he's like in the 99.0 percentile or higher. He's being compared to athletes in multiple sports (that he references) at similar ages and bodyweight and Crossfitters of his age and weight.

Talk about a major disconnect.

[The Real Rant]

I'm not doing CF anymore, and have bitched about it more than most...

Around here you're still a light weight when it comes to @fit hate.

[Gin Master]

I'm not doing CF anymore, and have bitched about it more than most...

Around here you're still a light weight when it comes to @fit hate.

No shit. Before I lurked here, I didn't realize that hate was a trainable attribute...across broad topical domains, no less. IGX- Forging Elite Hate.

[ab g-d]

By hating across many "modal domains" you develop the ability to hate things you don't even really hate better then most people who really hate those things.

[Shafpocalypse Now]

IT'S TRUE! FUCKING TRUE!

[Dies Irae]

Anyone bitching about generalists are as bad as the cult-fitters who put down specialists.

[Sofa King]

Anyone else getting a tad bored with all this? Maybe I need to pursue my hate across multiple modal domains or some shit.

[Botototo]

Anyone else getting a tad bored with all this?

Me...

Other general responses:

I'm not particularly remarkable at anything and I'm aware of this. For a couple of years of work I don't think I'm a shitstain, but even for the vague goals I have I'm certainly not there yet.

I haven't found a sport I've really cottoned to yet. So far I'm just interested to see what my body's capable of, and having fun developing new things and knocking down weaknesses. I do think this is a legit pursuit, although obviously different in nature from a sport/specialty, and less competitive.

I do want to get bigger and am getting there gradually. Maybe around 200.

I'm generally about as healthy as I could ask for, though no superman; I don't really have any bloodwork for you, though I've been meaning to get some done soonish. If you want to send over an IGX doc for a free visit, swell! (I'm an EMT so I do keep an eye on BP and pulse, which are usually pretty much dead average... 120/60ish, 72ish. But I've never done any work with heart rate training, so I don't monitor the range.)

[The Real Rant]

Boto needs to stop thinking this thread is about him. No one cares what Boto thinks...no one.

@fitters are fliipping out at the prospect of 3 ME days in a row. Many are inserting some metcon in just before their ME to show how harcore they are and to have a convenient for their shitty numbers.

[The Real Rant]

Boto needs to stop thinking this thread is about him. No one cares what Boto thinks...no one.

@fitters are flipping out at the prospect of 3 ME days in a row. Many are inserting some metcon in just before their ME to show how harcore they are and to have a convenient for their shitty numbers.

[stosh]

Heh.

As a new Crossfit member (long time lurker, coming from PL background, looking to integrate some Metcon work to aid with body comp), I have a question for Coach. I read an interview where he was quoted saying that, "But here's the fascinating part. We can take you from a 200 pound max deadlift to a 500-750 pound max deadlift in two years while only pulling max singles four or five times a year."

Looking through the data, I do not see anyone pulling anywhere near these numbers. Can Coach elaborate on the data the supports his position?

I'm not looking for a fight. I am genuinely interested. I invest a lot of time into heavy lifting. Is there another way to jack up my numbers?

Thanks in advance,
Mike Hunt

Comment #104 - Posted by: Mike Hunt at September 4, 2008 6:48 AM

And how legit is this?

400 x 3
500 x 3
600 x 3
700 x 3
650 x 3

Comment #122 - Posted by: jw3 at September 4, 2008 7:26 AM

[The Real Rant]

Heh.

As a new Crossfit member (long time lurker, coming from PL background, looking to integrate some Metcon work to aid with body comp), I have a question for Coach. I read an interview where he was quoted saying that, "But here's the fascinating part. We can take you from a 200 pound max deadlift to a 500-750 pound max deadlift in two years while only pulling max singles four or five times a year."

Looking through the data, I do not see anyone pulling anywhere near these numbers. Can Coach elaborate on the data the supports his position?

I'm not looking for a fight. I am genuinely interested. I invest a lot of time into heavy lifting. Is there another way to jack up my numbers?

Thanks in advance,
Mike Hunt

Comment #104 - Posted by: Mike Hunt at September 4, 2008 6:48 AM

And how legit is this?

400 x 3
500 x 3
600 x 3
700 x 3
650 x 3

Comment #122 - Posted by: jw3 at September 4, 2008 7:26 AM

I suspect that his real name might not be "Mike Hunt". The 700 pound thing is always good for a chuckle. I sure the post had been deleted by now.

[Gin Master]

Heh.

As a new Crossfit member (long time lurker, coming from PL background, looking to integrate some Metcon work to aid with body comp), I have a question for Coach. I read an interview where he was quoted saying that, "But here's the fascinating part. We can take you from a 200 pound max deadlift to a 500-750 pound max deadlift in two years while only pulling max singles four or five times a year."

Looking through the data, I do not see anyone pulling anywhere near these numbers. Can Coach elaborate on the data the supports his position?

I'm not looking for a fight. I am genuinely interested. I invest a lot of time into heavy lifting. Is there another way to jack up my numbers?

Thanks in advance,
Mike Hunt

Comment #104 - Posted by: Mike Hunt at September 4, 2008 6:48 AM

And how legit is this?

400 x 3
500 x 3
600 x 3
700 x 3
650 x 3

Comment #122 - Posted by: jw3 at September 4, 2008 7:26 AM

The numbers are about as legit as MyCunt's name.

Before the interwebs, people took pride in their lies and went to great lengths to falsify data. jw3 doesn't pull big numbers or he would know that you don't bother loading 400# on the bar when it's easier just to do 405#. Same with 495#. Outside of a meet, 2.5# plates look silly whilst deadlifting. The bastard isn't even strong enough to tell a good lie.

[newguy]

After a year or so most will either modify it beyond recognition it, scale it, or drop it for some other hardcore thing. A few will stay longer.

CF is the gateway drug of the fitness world. It's one of the few fitness programs where you can come in with no real goals (weight, performance, competition) and find some success (improved fitness, other shit). It beats the hell out of the typical 3 sets of 10 Hammer Strength circuit. After a few months, a number of people decide that they like Olifting, powerlifting, etc. and leave the flock. The concepts aren't bad, but the kool-aid is just too much.
Yes, I did the CF WOD for a few months before getting into other pursuits. I still integrate the occasional conditioning routine, but my current interests involve moving large objects--animate or inanimate, it doesn't matter.

This is where I completely disagree with you. The average person is 100% better off adopting a rationale bodybuilding routine comprised of mostly multi joint compound movements with some isolation movements. Do that, keep you calories in check, add some cardio, and most people will be completely happy with their looks and the acquired fitness without the complete jackassery danger of being encouraged to do 3 rounds 15 olympic snatches followed by 50 muscle ups - for time.

Bodybuilding got a bad rap - and a deserved one at that - based on what it became. But your average body for life program, something from keys to progress, beyond bodybuilding, etc. is far more safe AND effective than the dribble crossfit espouses.

[Gin Master]

After a year or so most will either modify it beyond recognition it, scale it, or drop it for some other hardcore thing. A few will stay longer.

CF is the gateway drug of the fitness world. It's one of the few fitness programs where you can come in with no real goals (weight, performance, competition) and find some success (improved fitness, other shit). It beats the hell out of the typical 3 sets of 10 Hammer Strength circuit. After a few months, a number of people decide that they like Olifting, powerlifting, etc. and leave the flock. The concepts aren't bad, but the kool-aid is just too much.
Yes, I did the CF WOD for a few months before getting into other pursuits. I still integrate the occasional conditioning routine, but my current interests involve moving large objects--animate or inanimate, it doesn't matter.

This is where I completely disagree with you. The average person is 100% better off adopting a rationale bodybuilding routine comprised of mostly multi joint compound movements with some isolation movements. Do that, keep you calories in check, add some cardio, and most people will be completely happy with their looks and the acquired fitness without the complete jackassery danger of being encouraged to do 3 rounds 15 olympic snatches followed by 50 muscle ups - for time.

Bodybuilding got a bad rap - and a deserved one at that - based on what it became. But your average body for life program, something from keys to progress, beyond bodybuilding, etc. is far more safe AND effective than the dribble crossfit espouses.

We're talking about different things. I'm talking about a program that will get someone from month 1 to month 6, and retain them long enough to find some success and develop interest in something different. I think of a lot of people that start CF are going to go another direction before they get too fucked up with the metcon jackassery. Less than 5% of the CF population can even approach 30 muscles ups.

I'm also basing in on the fact that the typical jackass kid (with no clue about exercise, form, or program design) that signs up at Gold's/24-hour/LA Fatness and follows some T-Nation program is going to be about as weak and about as flabby in 6 months as he is when he starts. This is the kid who wants to get big. He looks at CF, sees the small weak people, and doesn't consider this anyway. They're not competing for the same population.

If I had my way, I'd put everybody on Starting Strength and have them eat 1/2 a cow every day for 6 months. But it's about what people will do, not what they should do. There are a lot of ex-CFers that are now bodybuilding, powerlifting, Olifting, or playing sports that otherwise would not be doing those things. It might be appropriate to give credit to Rippetoe and Burgener at this point, but CF was the gateway.

[Sofa King]

Anyone else getting a tad bored with all this?

Me...

Other general responses: I think I'm a shitstain

Actually, I was talking about you.

My hate is feeling better already.

[newguy]

After a year or so most will either modify it beyond recognition it, scale it, or drop it for some other hardcore thing. A few will stay longer.

CF is the gateway drug of the fitness world. It's one of the few fitness programs where you can come in with no real goals (weight, performance, competition) and find some success (improved fitness, other shit). It beats the hell out of the typical 3 sets of 10 Hammer Strength circuit. After a few months, a number of people decide that they like Olifting, powerlifting, etc. and leave the flock. The concepts aren't bad, but the kool-aid is just too much.
Yes, I did the CF WOD for a few months before getting into other pursuits. I still integrate the occasional conditioning routine, but my current interests involve moving large objects--animate or inanimate, it doesn't matter.

This is where I completely disagree with you. The average person is 100% better off adopting a rationale bodybuilding routine comprised of mostly multi joint compound movements with some isolation movements. Do that, keep you calories in check, add some cardio, and most people will be completely happy with their looks and the acquired fitness without the complete jackassery danger of being encouraged to do 3 rounds 15 olympic snatches followed by 50 muscle ups - for time.

Bodybuilding got a bad rap - and a deserved one at that - based on what it became. But your average body for life program, something from keys to progress, beyond bodybuilding, etc. is far more safe AND effective than the dribble crossfit espouses.

We're talking about different things. I'm talking about a program that will get someone from month 1 to month 6, and retain them long enough to find some success and develop interest in something different. I think of a lot of people that start CF are going to go another direction before they get too fucked up with the metcon jackassery. Less than 5% of the CF population can even approach 30 muscles ups.

I'm also basing in on the fact that the typical jackass kid (with no clue about exercise, form, or program design) that signs up at Gold's/24-hour/LA Fatness and follows some T-Nation program is going to be about as weak and about as flabby in 6 months as he is when he starts. This is the kid who wants to get big. He looks at CF, sees the small weak people, and doesn't consider this anyway. They're not competing for the same population.

If I had my way, I'd put everybody on Starting Strength and have them eat 1/2 a cow every day for 6 months. But it's about what people will do, not what they should do. There are a lot of ex-CFers that are now bodybuilding, powerlifting, Olifting, or playing sports that otherwise would not be doing those things. It might be appropriate to give credit to Rippetoe and Burgener at this point, but CF was the gateway.

The fact is that no matter what modality, the majority of people will still be flabby and weak after 6 months. This rarely has to do with the program and more often than not has to do with the fact that people are rarely committed to anything. Pavel quoted Staley saying something like most people can't stick to anything for 6 months period.

I would rather see the typical kid, person, whatever, spend six months to a year doing some old school bodybuilding much more than I would rather see him or her do crossfit.

The fact that people join crossfit, see it sucks, and then do other stuff does not in any way validate it as a good entry point into the fitness world.

And as for rip and burg, I like starting strength, but selling your soul to crossfit is still selling your soul to crossfit.

[Holland Oates]

A friend of mine told me about a guy on the Cultfit message board who trained mainly ME work and limited his metcon work to 10 or 20 minutes max for a couple of months.

All his benchmark work outs improved with little or no emphasis on the high rep masturbation that the Kool Aid drinkers espouse.

In fact I'm a testament to this simple concept to a certain degree.

My Cultfit monster buddy who is in 10 times the shape I have ever been in, talked me into doing Fat Fran about a year ago.

I beat his time by 2 or 3 minutes without really pushing myself and without actually training Cultfit.

Why?

Because I could do all the 135# thrusters non stop.

Why?

I was stronger in the squat, I'm about 4 inches shorter than him so I'm better built for the thruster, and I don't have a fucked up hand that was nearly split in half a few years ago and so I can hold the bar in a proper rack position on my delts.

I can usually beat his ass on the 150 wall ball shots for time with a 20# medball for similar reasons.

But he is more consistent in his training and has alot more motivation to train hard and he will surpass me by leaps and bounds if he hasn't already.

[Holland Oates]

I believe I may have stirred up a hornets nest on the Comments section for today.

I've had a couple of beers and and a loricet so please forgive the misspellings and bad grammar.

[dead man walking]

on rest days, they tabata stupidity

[Gin Master]

Dave Castro is a pompous know-nothing shit-stirrer. That video is so void of substance it's almost not worth hating. Almost.

[Sua Sponte]

Good military PT tests: The Royal Marine commando tests. The best Ranger competition (this one is even better as it tests the ability of the soldier to continue to function under physical and mental duress). The British Para P-company. Land navigation under load over any type of terrain you can find. Stress shoots. Obstacle courses. Speed marches followed by shoot/no shoot CQB scenarios. Long, heavy marches after extended sleep and food deprivation.

Those would probably be pretty hard to conduct for the entire Marine Corps on a semi-annual basis.

Point well taken but there's no reason to not be doing the test in what the Marine's refer to as deuce gear (= Army TA-50). As each Marine must qualify a couple of times per year with his rifle, I can't imagine it would be hard to roll some stress shooting in with this test at the same time.

The Marines are also duly proud of their ability to innovate. I'm sure they could come up with something better than that silly serpentine between lines of tape. Why not set up some runs and direction changes around dispersed ammo cans,f or instance?

BTW, the Army's PT test was designed primarily so as to not require any equipment, not even a chin-up bar. In so doing, the test doesn't measure what it's supposed to.

[RPC]

Heh -

Scuttlebutt says that the emo fag "B-BOY" has cut and run to Virginia and ditched the runner chick. He's now hittin ANYC to boot.

This is now reading like a soap or something.