IGX

Hah, ol' greg's been at the bottle again:

On Mark Twight...after quoting him...

[quote]Jacko,

Mark’s has taken the CrossFit concept and relaxed performance expectations and standards – both for mechanics and power output. Claims to the contrary are hype. The GJ outputs reflect exactly that. This is “CrossFit Liteâ€

From the linked thread...

My bench press went from 165lb to 225lb (last night) in about 4 months - *WITHOUT DOING ANY BENCH PRESSING* !!

That would be a lot more impressive if instead he had gone from 265lb to 325 lb. without benching. Unless you're a featherweight/girl, getting to a 225 lb. bench without benching isn't really all that difficult.

Glassman #49,

How exactly has Twight "relaxed performance expectations and standards"? Can you please explain?

Perhaps it's high time to set up a fitness competition between CrossFit and Gym Jones. Bring the top 3 CrossFit and the top 3 Gym Jones athletes, and have them all come to some gym not affiliated with either CF or Gym Jones, and compete with impartial judges watching.

Have 1-2 max lifts and gymnastics skills tested (Say: Overhead Squats and Muscle-ups, or something like that), one workout defined ahead of time that is won by time completed or score, and put some workouts in a hopper to draw out randomly for one contest. They can be chippers, blenders, or grinders.

Just a thought. CrossFit has been tested successfully against standard military PT, which every CrossFitter was no doubt unsurprised about the conclusions from that study, but what about other so-called "Elite" systems? How can you claim that GJ = CrossFit Lite if you haven't actually tested your system against theirs? Unless you already have and have the results, in which case could you or someone else please post them for all to see? Thanks! :-)

We could all learn something new from seeing the results of such a contest.


Great move on the CFJ, too! Love it, and can't wait to back order every issue once I get the cash.

Comment #66 - Posted by Eric '07 at November 9, 2006 08:20 AM

It's extremely stupid, because so very few crossfitters compete at anything but being the toughest crossfitter badass around.

The Gym Jones people do all sorts of competing. MMA, climbing, alpine sports, etc.

nafod wrote:

Batboy2/75 wrote:@fit (or cross training as it used be called when Bo Jackson was around) is a great method for the average joe that doesn't have any specific goals or involved in a sport.

That's just dumb. Browse the Testimonials forum and you'll see goal-oriented. You'll also see how people modify crossfit for their sport. Visit the Gym Jones site. Or goggle on "crossfit challenge," a pile of goals which have run their course over the years I've been at it.

I like crossfit precisely because it supports and complements my sports. Skiing, kayaking, surfing, biking, climbing, yardwork, etc. Working out is not my sport, unlike powerlifting. It's a means to an end.

Read my post again old man. I'll wait while you put on your coke bottle RPGs.

You said "my sports" and then listed a laundry list of activities. You are not specialist in any field and can not be considered an active athlete in any of those sports. You may be an enthusaist , but you don't specialize in any one endevor and therefore @fit will be just perfect for you.

If you are a competitive athlete in any athletic sport @fit will not do shit for your performance. It my be a nice way to get in some GPP, but it won't surfice as your man S&C routine. You are going to tailor your S&C routine to your sport of choice.

As for goals what exactly is @fits workout of the day going to do to achieve them? If your goal is to do 300 Push ups, run a marathon in a certain time, do a one arm pull ups, or a 750 lb Dead lift, what exactly is the workout of the day going to do to achieve these goals? Specilization is King when putting together any S&C plan to achieve a desired end. Want to max out your military physical fitness test? Guess, what? You're going to have to have to specialize in the fitness test events. Unless your goal is @fit, @fit isn't going to do shit to help you achieve your Sport oriented goals.

If your goal is crossfit or what ever crazy events you and your buddies what to come up with is fine. Like I've said a couple of times, if general fitness is your goal or you consider it a sport, crossfit is probably all you need. However, if you are an active athelete in a popular sport like powerlifting, Oly lifting, Judo, BJJ, Boxing, Football, baseball, cross country running, racket ball, basket ball, whatever @fit is going to be a poor choice as your main S&C regime.

I'm into Boxing, @fit does nothing for my strength endurance for Boxing. If I want strength endurance I'll hit the heavy bag, do mitt training, speed bag, double ended, and more importantly SPAR A LOT, ie BOX. I can not afford to have some haphazard S&C program thats main goal can only be guessed at and whos main proponents brag results in visits from puckie and Rhabdo. I do just enough strength work for my sport, and no more, & I engage in my sport for endurance.

BB2/75

too bad couch doesnt have any performance standards for himself.the man talks way too much shit when he looks like that.

Plus, S.A.I.D rules. Specific Adaptation to Imposed Demands. Basically you get what you train for and only that.Lance Armstrongs marathon demonstrates that.
You do crossfit you get good at crossfit and activities that resemlble it. I think form should be the bottom line. If you cant demonstrate or hold good form you will get injured if you load( or over load) that movement.

Shaf wrote:Hah, ol' greg's been at the bottle again:

@man is his own worst enemy, and would do well to STFU more often, or at least take it to email. I ignore his spells.

Batboy2/75 wrote: You said "my sports" and then listed a laundry list of activities. You are not specialist in any field and can not be considered an active athlete in any of those sports.

That sentence really makes me shake my head. You are saying you can't be an athlete onless you focus on one single sport (or a few closely related, I gather). I just flat out disagree on that. Frankly, I find that world view depressing and limiting and boring. For example, are you telling me you only played one sport in high school? I played three, only because I couldn't play four. I learn new shit all the time.

I backcountry ski, open ocean kayak, single track mountain ride, etc. I like to put myself in committing positions where my fitness and training has a critical bearing on my not getting injured (not so successful lately), and at times I push that edge as hard as I can. I am an athlete, Batboy. I'm just not stuck in one sport for 20 years.

what exactly is the workout of the day going to do to achieve these goals? Specilization is King when putting together any S&C plan to achieve a desired end.

Three things. First, crossfit is not the WOD. Second, specialization gets punished in real life where you get confronted with lots of situations. Third, pulling down my old dog-eared copy of Bill Starr's Getting Stronger (1986 print) and looking at the sport specific workouts, I'd say they are 80% common across the whole range. from aerobic dancing to football. I think you overestimate the specialization in basic physical prep for a skills sport. I'm not lumping in stuff like powerlifitng and Oly lifting, where the lifting is the sport.

Want to max out your military physical fitness test? Guess, what? You're going to have to have to specialize in the fitness test events. Unless your goal is @fit, @fit isn't going to do shit to help you achieve your Sport oriented goals.

Yea I want to max the PRT, but NOT to the exclusion or decrement of everything else. And neither does the military. It wants you all-around fit, not some sort of freak specialist who maxes out situps, pushups, and a 1.5 mile run but sucks otherwise.

If all you do is box, then power to you. And just boxing gets you in great shape. In the big picture I think you are in the minority. I could be wrong, I hang mostly with people who do lots of stuff, so my data set is biased. It seems most people here at IGx are "one trick ponies" sports-wise.

<rant>
The whole world of fitness where you go with the major full body lifts, you go metcon in the weight room or with weights, you do serious calisthenics to include pullups, is pretty damn small compared to the isolation exercises/machines/chest/tri day, etc., etc., etc. or skinny-ass joggers and bikers, etc. I'd guess 95% of most fitnessers fall in the latter category, and that's being conservative.

Things like RKC and crossfit and Pavel's stuff and Gym Jones have far more in common philosophically with each other than they differ, and they are all miles apart from the iso exercising treadmillers. And they all are better and have something valuable to offer.

But when someone comes from that world and sees all the petty shit infighting and backnagging assraping and undermining, they can't help but think, "What bunch of complete, total fucking clusterfuck of fucking numbnuts." The folks in this world are so busy scrapping for the money and attention of the few that Get It and want this type of fitness training that they are too stupid to see that there's a monster market out there. A rising tide could raise all boats. No one stays with a workout program for life. Tired of crossfit? Buy Pavel's books or do Sonnon stuff. Or vice versa. Once you get addicted to non-iso/treadmill fitness, you explore it. BillF is the ultimate fitness dilettante, for example.

Crossfit has done a great job of getting outsiders to think beyond the standard universal gym workout, and those folks will find their way to the other stuff too.
</rant>

nafod wrote:

Shaf wrote:Hah, ol' greg's been at the bottle again:

@man is his own worst enemy, and would do well to STFU more often, or at least take it to email. I ignore his spells.

Batboy2/75 wrote: You said "my sports" and then listed a laundry list of activities. You are not specialist in any field and can not be considered an active athlete in any of those sports.

That sentence really makes me shake my head. You are saying you can't be an athlete onless you focus on one single sport (or a few closely related, I gather). I just flat out disagree on that. Frankly, I find that world view depressing and limiting and boring. For example, are you telling me you only played one sport in high school? I played three, only because I couldn't play four. I learn new shit all the time.

I backcountry ski, open ocean kayak, single track mountain ride, etc. I like to put myself in committing positions where my fitness and training has a critical bearing on my not getting injured (not so successful lately), and at times I push that edge as hard as I can. I am an athlete, Batboy. I'm just not stuck in one sport for 20 years.

what exactly is the workout of the day going to do to achieve these goals? Specilization is King when putting together any S&C plan to achieve a desired end.

Three things. First, crossfit is not the WOD. Second, specialization gets punished in real life where you get confronted with lots of situations. Third, pulling down my old dog-eared copy of Bill Starr's Getting Stronger (1986 print) and looking at the sport specific workouts, I'd say they are 80% common across the whole range. from aerobic dancing to football. I think you overestimate the specialization in basic physical prep for a skills sport. I'm not lumping in stuff like powerlifitng and Oly lifting, where the lifting is the sport.

Want to max out your military physical fitness test? Guess, what? You're going to have to have to specialize in the fitness test events. Unless your goal is @fit, @fit isn't going to do shit to help you achieve your Sport oriented goals.

Yea I want to max the PRT, but NOT to the exclusion or decrement of everything else. And neither does the military. It wants you all-around fit, not some sort of freak specialist who maxes out situps, pushups, and a 1.5 mile run but sucks otherwise.

If all you do is box, then power to you. And just boxing gets you in great shape. In the big picture I think you are in the minority. I could be wrong, I hang mostly with people who do lots of stuff, so my data set is biased. It seems most people here at IGx are "one trick ponies" sports-wise.

<rant>
The whole world of fitness where you go with the major full body lifts, you go metcon in the weight room or with weights, you do serious calisthenics to include pullups, is pretty damn small compared to the isolation exercises/machines/chest/tri day, etc., etc., etc. or skinny-ass joggers and bikers, etc. I'd guess 95% of most fitnessers fall in the latter category, and that's being conservative.

Things like RKC and crossfit and Pavel's stuff and Gym Jones have far more in common philosophically with each other than they differ, and they are all miles apart from the iso exercising treadmillers. And they all are better and have something valuable to offer.

But when someone comes from that world and sees all the petty shit infighting and backnagging assraping and undermining, they can't help but think, "What bunch of complete, total fucking clusterfuck of fucking numbnuts." The folks in this world are so busy scrapping for the money and attention of the few that Get It and want this type of fitness training that they are too stupid to see that there's a monster market out there. A rising tide could raise all boats. No one stays with a workout program for life. Tired of crossfit? Buy Pavel's books or do Sonnon stuff. Or vice versa. Once you get addicted to non-iso/treadmill fitness, you explore it. BillF is the ultimate fitness dilettante, for example.

Crossfit has done a great job of getting outsiders to think beyond the standard universal gym workout, and those folks will find their way to the other stuff too.
</rant>

First off gramps settle down.

You're going to have to slow down and read my all comments on this thread.

My criticism of crossfit in regards to athletic endevors is because of the nut ball attitude that glassman has infected his cult members with. They constantly denegrade athletes of other sports because they don't follow the @fit methodolgy.

Plus, like Shaf said, when glassman and @fit first hit, the WOD was @fit. As usuall they have decided to rearrange their beliefs so as to deflect criticism.

Like i said, if you like the @fit method and like a wild blend of sports and hobbies, go for it. But don't come here and try to defend Glassman and his cult members putting down people that compete in real sports as athletes. Especially when they have yet to produce any athlete that competes in anything other than @fit.

BB2/75

If all you do is box, then power to you. And just boxing gets you in great shape. In the big picture I think you are in the minority. I could be wrong, I hang mostly with people who do lots of stuff, so my data set is biased. It seems most people here at IGx are "one trick ponies" sports-wise.

One sport is plenty to work at, unless your name is Jim Thorpe.

People who do 5 sports aren't really, really good at any of them. That's fine for fitness and enjoyment. There is is no rule that everyone has to be a great competition-level athlete.

If you really want to be good at something...well, counting the pro athletes who were good at more than one sport doesn't even use up the fingers on one hand.

Hell, my MA work might as well be multiple sports!
In order of priority:

1. striking
2. lifting
3. grappling
4. stickfighting

Plenty of guys spend all their time on just one part of what I do. I don't have time for another sport! I've tried it.

In conclusion...Muhammed Ali was a "one trick pony", along nearly every record-setter ever. Meditate on that.

Not to nit-pick with my first post, but Ali-esque performance in any sport is probably beyond the capabilities of 99.999999999999% of the population. I know it's good to have goals and to aim high, but lets be realistic. If you had the potential for this in any sport, chances are it would have been discovered at a fairly early age, and you would not now be discussing the merits of @fit on a t'interweb forum.
You would be training. Or resting. Or snorting coke off a hookers' breast in a hotel room. Or in prison asking where it all went wrong.

For people who arrive at sport, (or fitness/whatever) later in life, and have less lofty goals, there is nothing wrong with participating in a wide variety of activities. Of course they should be honest with themselves though and carefully avoid use of the word 'elite' in any description of their efforts, but still...

I think @fit is fine if you're suitably honest about what it can achieve and what you're using it for.

I think @fit is fine if you're suitably honest about what it can achieve and what you're using it for.

Words of moderation and reason have no place in this thread.

This is the 2nd annual "Tent Stake Pulling" WOD done at the local boy scout jamboree in Santa Cruz.

Guess who?

[img:400:300]http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/5886/sportfi0.jpg[/img]

Shaf wrote:

I think @fit is fine if you're suitably honest about what it can achieve and what you're using it for.

Words of moderation and reason have no place in this thread.

Sorry, what I meant to say was that @fit can heal the lame and help the blind to see.

Shaf wrote:This is the 2nd annual "Tent Stake Pulling" WOD done at the local boy scout jamboree in Santa Cruz.

Guess who?

goddammit, Shaf. Don't post shit like that. Note that I removed the offending pic from the quote so that we dont' have to see it TWICE on one page.

GDG!

GoDogGo! wrote:

Shaf wrote:This is the 2nd annual "Tent Stake Pulling" WOD done at the local boy scout jamboree in Santa Cruz.

Guess who?

goddammit, Shaf. Don't post shit like that. Note that I removed the offending pic from the quote so that we dont' have to see it TWICE on one page.

GDG!

I think his point was that the ketogenic diet seems to be working for Garm.

Mr Sticks wrote:
I think his point was that the ketogenic diet seems to be working for Garm.

People who urinate on Boy Scouts need to be shot.

GDG!

I think it's cute that the previously hashed into the ground realtive merits/weaknesses of @f are being rehashed for a new generation of IGXers.

bill fox wrote:I think it's cute that the previously hashed into the ground realtive merits/weaknesses of @f are being rehashed for a new generation of IGXers.

You remind of nothing so much as newly diaper-trained 2 year old who just made his first poopy in the toilet (this thread) and wants to invite all his buddies over to look at it and poke it.

You must be a proud parent.

No, Nafod, he's the kettlebellmanlawyer.

Get it straight.

So far the sign of Two Dogs Fucking, the Broccoli dog, and the Naked Caoch at the Boy Scout Jamboree have livened up my day.

I am easily amused.

I'm going to start up a new Mongolian-Style Goat Fucking League (MSGFL) so I can be it's best athlete and finally be considered elite. I'm currently working on the S&C protocols.

A man is sitting at a bar, drinking, and he says to no one in particular, "A man can spend his life building bridges. Do they call him John the Bridge Builder? No. A man can spend his life raising crops. Do they call him John the Farmer? No. But you fuck one goat..."

bill fox wrote:I think it's cute that the previously hashed into the ground realtive merits/weaknesses of @f are being rehashed for a new generation of IGXers.

Yeah, you'd think that before posting their views people would take the time to read the 1000 or so posts that got this thread where it is today.

Look, @fit offers some well-conceived circuits to get you into anaerobic training HRs quickly. But, do you really need @fit to help you figure out how to do that? Other than that, there isn't much to be said in its favor. I think that is the consensus of most IGxers.

This is cool, too. SLDLs don't work the hamstrings. Heh. My hammies say otherwise.

http://www.crossfit.com/discus/messages/22/32629.html

...[Yawns]...


It's the eternal return of the same...