IGX

josh1 wrote:Tony B being stupid: http://journal.crossfit.com/2011/10/dit ... l#comments .

Bony wrote:With all due respect, saying the Olympic lifts are for developing speed and power and should only be used in low rep training for that purpose is like telling your wife you can't pick her up for dinner in your 1-ton pickup because the truck is made for hauling and towing.

I wonder if it's fun to be this stupid and unaccountable.

Also really intelligent and responsible stuff (same source):

Bony wrote: Also, for a CrossFitter to wait for perfect form to train heavier or longer is really just an excuse for not going hard.

Yeah.

Bony wrote: Furthermore, to say that "CrossFitters" have issues with these lifts is funny. More people are doing the Oly lifts today than ever before because of CrossFit. They are complex lifts worthy of study and practice. But it is more important to do them than to not do them.

As if the options would be something like "do them wrong" or "don't do them at all". Well, could be that are the options available at cf paradise. you've gotta love this place.

Bony wrote: Dane says that the poor form causes injury, but what do you say about all the world class Oly lifters who have great form and get injured?

Mh, could be about them doing elite sports for years vs. some weekend warriors getting injured 'cause of stupid exercise selection. but what do i know.

Bony wrote: That said, it is not intelligence or technique training that bring results. It is doing the workouts. Anything that is used as an excuse not to train constantly varied functional movements at (relatively) high intensity is an impediment to success. In this example, saying "I can't do CF workouts with high volume oly lifts" either because "I don't have the proper technique perfected" or because "Oly lits are only supposed to be low volume for power and speed" is missing the boat and a cause for inferior results.

you just have to love this guy. awesome!

Bony wrote: Also, for a CrossFitter to wait for perfect form to train heavier or longer is really just an excuse for not going hard.

Damn, so waiting until you know what your doing to fight GSP is just an excuse for not going hard...

Moron

^ This

Thanks for the start up about firefighting and the topic of @Fit. I've gotten tired of the "hardcore" attitude amongst coworkers & their fitness programs, who aren't so "hardcore" when at an alarm (quite ineffective or burnt out in record time), if they ever get any. But time for something more constructive...

For years I laughed at the local muni-fire department's procedures on wellness & fitness. It calls for a 10-15min warm up and stretch session, 20min minimum of some form of cardiovascular training (the least intensity being a brisk walk/power walk), a circuit and some strength movements, and finish off with a cool-down moment for flexibility. Sure, it looks archaic and ineffective compared to the XTREEM TEAM of the "hardcore" 21st century, BUT just in the last yr I've caught onto what I missed in the procedure over the years, a hidden message for job-specific fitness:

"Do As Little As Needed, Not As Much As Possible"

Funny thing about the department's procedure is that when I wrote up something following the "archaic" steps, it has the feel of The 40-Day-Workout. Meaning, enough load and volume to get the job done, address some weaknesses here and there, and recover in time to finish off the work shift, or do the workout again the next day.

I've read it written somewhere and I agree so much after losing many friends and family in the firehouse, that the part of the job that kills us more, at least here, is the lifestyle. Yeah, there are occupational hazards for the FFers that go in as well as the guys who stay outside and the wind blows their way. It's pretty obvious that lifestyle includes the activities or lack thereof during idle time and feeding periods.

I'm only touching a little bit of things here, because I'm sure everyone else knows how people die and how a pyramid-scheme, meme workout program doesn't cure anything, but take up time and provide hope.

the firefighting posts make me chuckle. The job must be very, very different in some parts of the US to what it is over here if spazzing your way through a wod is the preferred way to get better at it.

odin wrote:the firefighting posts make me chuckle. The job must be very, very different in some parts of the US to what it is over here

From what I have read it is US FDs do useful shit like have some medical training so they can attend other kinds of emergency calls rather than just going out on strike all the time.

Gin Master wrote:

josh1 wrote:Tony B being stupid: http://journal.crossfit.com/2011/10/dit ... l#comments .

Bony wrote:With all due respect, saying the Olympic lifts are for developing speed and power and should only be used in low rep training for that purpose is like telling your wife you can't pick her up for dinner in your 1-ton pickup because the truck is made for hauling and towing.

I wonder if it's fun to be this stupid and unaccountable.

That quote needs to be carved on a stone arch somewhere so future generations can marvel at it.

Bony wrote:Dane says that the poor form causes injury, but what do you say about all the world class Oly lifters who have great form and get injured?

Those World-Class Oly lifters have the decency to get injured with double-bodyweight or more on the bar. They don't go around getting injured with forty kilos. That's just sad.

i assume some of you know this guy--budding, that is. does he believe what he says, or is he simply a soul-less propagandist?

not sure choice is worse.

dead man walking wrote:i assume some of you know this guy--budding, that is. does he believe what he says, or is he simply a soul-less propagandist?

not sure choice is worse.

I think he's couch's designated driver.

Gin Master wrote:

Ed Zachary wrote:

Beer Jew wrote:

Jay wrote:

dead man walking wrote:do you have a cliche generator posting for you?

I should, all my shit is cliche worthy. I am like Yogi fucking Berra without the stupidity.

Jesus. You sound like a fucking high school kid jerking off to the chaos and pain dude.

You'd think so but I've met and spent some time with Jay. He's real intense. And he's legit.

Hay is decently strong for such a short, small guy.

ok that is out of line... I am not short and small you sumbitch. haha

Budding would have been just as happy spinning for Hitler, Stalin, or Pol Pot. A legitimately morally and ethically deficient individual

dead man walking wrote:i assume some of you know this guy--budding, that is. does he believe what he says, or is he simply a soul-less propagandist?

not sure choice is worse.

"His lack of education is more than made up for by his keenly developed moral bankruptcy." -Woody Allen

dead man walking wrote:i assume some of you know this guy--budding, that is. does he believe what he says, or is he simply a soul-less propagandist?

not sure choice is worse.

He is a cocky tool of epic proportions. The quotes don't do justice to the man in person.

Tony Budding wrote: Thanks Tony. CrossFit training requires intelligence. Always has, always will. Scaling load and rep schemes when appropriate is essential for long term success. Functional movements are high-skill movements, even the air squat. Training proper mechanics for all moves is essential. These have been part of the CF approach since the very beginning and will forever.

That said, it is not intelligence or technique training that bring results. It is doing the workouts. Anything that is used as an excuse not to train constantly varied functional movements at (relatively) high intensity is an impediment to success. In this example, saying "I can't do CF workouts with high volume oly lifts" either because "I don't have the proper technique perfected" or because "Oly lits are only supposed to be low volume for power and speed" is missing the boat and a cause for inferior results.

We say CF requires intelligence because there is a paradox and a subtlety in the above concepts. It's not black and white, all or nothing. Playing in the gray areas is much harder. It's also more true.

The Principal from 'Billy Madison' wrote: Mr. Budding, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it.

What the fuck is Bony talking about??

chi wrote:

odin wrote:the firefighting posts make me chuckle. The job must be very, very different in some parts of the US to what it is over here

From what I have read it is US FDs do useful shit like have some medical training so they can attend other kinds of emergency calls rather than just going out on strike all the time.

We have trauma care training and also attend non-fire emergencies in this country. In some rural areas they do complete co-responding, (joint fire & ambulance role, like the states). In my experience there is a general appetite among FF's for this to be rolled out in all areas but unions fear that the ambulance service would see it as a threat to their own jobs. We have to pussy-foot around a bit in this country because successive governments look for every opportunity to reduce the manpower in emergency services. It means common-sense stuff like co-responding becomes a political cluster-fuck of an issue.

For info, we were one of the few public sector organisations who didn't join in with the strike action this year. Asides from a couple of local disputes in London I don't think we've been out on strike since 2002. I know the Daily Mail fails to distinguish between London Fire Brigade and the rest of the country but we're run on county lines generally, we're not a national service in this regard.

...deleted

I can't tell you how happy The Gorilla is that Budding is rocking the comments section of the CFJ with his comedy stylings and observational humor. His Twitter stream has been untweeted since Dec 15.

http://twitter.com/tonybudding

Tony, work the room! Your fans need you!

I can appreciate what Tony Webster is saying, here:

As a CrossFit coach I always argued that the ultimate responsibility for what is done lies with the athlete. Of course! But as a coach if you see the athlete making a clearly bad choice or demonstrating grossly incorrect form then you should intervene. The point where you intervene of course is somewhat grey. That's where good judgement comes in. Most people pay $100-$150 a month to attend a CrossFit gym to learn from people who know better than they do!! ie. the coaches!! They don't pay to have a coach sit back and say "well I told you so". If you are a coach, do your job and coach.

What disturbs me is the whole: Most people pay $100-$150 a month to attend a CrossFit gym thing, as, I can't imagine that every coach running every box is going to look at it with the same, relatively-good common-sense as Mr. Webster. Although, as Killer Kate has so clearly demonstrated, if you tell people how awesome they are because they pushed themselves to the point of serious injury, and really make them buy-the-fuck-into-it, then you've basically lawsuit-proofed your gym, thus insuring you'll never have to lose any of that filthy lucre paying costly settlements.

In a way, they've got themselves a pretty kickass business model.

Dr. Agkistrodon wrote:I can appreciate what Tony Webster is saying, here:

As a CrossFit coach I always argued that the ultimate responsibility for what is done lies with the athlete. Of course! But as a coach if you see the athlete making a clearly bad choice or demonstrating grossly incorrect form then you should intervene. The point where you intervene of course is somewhat grey. That's where good judgement comes in. Most people pay $100-$150 a month to attend a CrossFit gym to learn from people who know better than they do!! ie. the coaches!! They don't pay to have a coach sit back and say "well I told you so". If you are a coach, do your job and coach.

What disturbs me is the whole: Most people pay $100-$150 a month to attend a CrossFit gym thing, as, I can't imagine that every coach running every box is going to look at it with the same, relatively-good common-sense as Mr. Webster. Although, as Killer Kate has so clearly demonstrated, if you tell people how awesome they are because they pushed themselves to the point of serious injury, and really make them buy-the-fuck-into-it, then you've basically lawsuit-proofed your gym, thus insuring you'll never have to lose any of that filthy lucre paying costly settlements.

In a way, they've got themselves a pretty kickass business model.

Except that when the shit hits the fan, Couch throws the trainers under the bus. So, it's a good model for HQ, but a terrible model for the affiliates. And any decent lawyer would loop in HQ along with the local box, ensuring an internecine battle, with the affiliate being hung out to dry.

protobuilder wrote:

Dr. Agkistrodon wrote:I can appreciate what Tony Webster is saying, here:

As a CrossFit coach I always argued that the ultimate responsibility for what is done lies with the athlete. Of course! But as a coach if you see the athlete making a clearly bad choice or demonstrating grossly incorrect form then you should intervene. The point where you intervene of course is somewhat grey. That's where good judgement comes in. Most people pay $100-$150 a month to attend a CrossFit gym to learn from people who know better than they do!! ie. the coaches!! They don't pay to have a coach sit back and say "well I told you so". If you are a coach, do your job and coach.

What disturbs me is the whole: Most people pay $100-$150 a month to attend a CrossFit gym thing, as, I can't imagine that every coach running every box is going to look at it with the same, relatively-good common-sense as Mr. Webster. Although, as Killer Kate has so clearly demonstrated, if you tell people how awesome they are because they pushed themselves to the point of serious injury, and really make them buy-the-fuck-into-it, then you've basically lawsuit-proofed your gym, thus insuring you'll never have to lose any of that filthy lucre paying costly settlements.

In a way, they've got themselves a pretty kickass business model.

Except that when the shit hits the fan, Couch throws the trainers under the bus. So, it's a good model for HQ, but a terrible model for the affiliates. And any decent lawyer would loop in HQ along with the local box, ensuring an internecine battle, with the affiliate being hung out to dry.

I see your point. And that's the real bitch of it, isn't it? I tend to believe that the Universe is a mixed-bag and that said, I can't go so far as to say that all affiliates are poorly-run and full of accidents-waiting-to-happen. I would venture to say that many are probably very good, offer WOD's which are better programmed, and may indeed be staffed with capable, good coaches. And therein lies the problem... Even under the best of circumstances, people still get hurt, sometimes seriously. And let's pretend, for the sake of argument that said "hurt individual" happens to be, a Whiny, Law-Suit-Happy Little Bitch, with a whole lot of disposable income. HQ divorces that good affiliate, throwing them under the bus, and a good coach is, well, fucked.

That's a problem.

Dr. Agkistrodon wrote: And let's pretend, for the sake of argument that said "hurt individual" happens to be, a Whiny, Law-Suit-Happy Little Bitch, with a whole lot of disposable income. HQ divorces that good affiliate, throwing them under the bus, and a good coach is, well, fucked.

That's a problem.

Luckily, they have the RRG.