IGX "...overflowing with foulmouthed ignorance."

IGX "...overflowing with foulmouthed ignorance."
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 Post subject: Re: gun control
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:58 pm 
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Those kids have no more credibility to impose their gun control opinions than plane crash survivors have to dictate aeronautics to Boeing.
That's a horrible analogy. You'd sue Boeing if ther plane didn't perform as advertised (safely get you from A to B). Here, the product is performing exactly as it is designed perform as a weapon designed to kill lots of people quickly.

Way to miss the point. Which is that being a victim does not grant you any particular wisdom, nor any special insight into a solution.
It does offer you insight into what it is like to actually be in the shooting gallery, and what the level of tolerability of this should be. Your post upstream kind of suggested only the dead ones are victims (the odds of getter nag killed are minuscule). The kids understand it in a way that we don't, that that is not true. They've "seen the elephant " to borrow an analogy from the ground forces in Iraq.


Way to miss the point. Which is that being a victim does not grant you any particular wisdom, nor any special insight into a solution.
It certainly makes you care, which is half the battle.

The gun owning folks have been winning the enthusiasm battle since forever, which makes sense since you really don't form organizations based around not having something. I can't think of any domain where people gather to enjoy not having a thing. The non-skiers of America, or people that hold "I don't have a pickup truck" rallies. The organizing principle for the "gun grabbers" is they don't want to be shot and killed, which is still a poor theme for a club. Now, here's where the government would step in, but of course the government is on the gun owner's side right now.

But the ones who have stared down the shooting end of a barrel of some terrorists are more motivated for sure.

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 Post subject: Re: gun control
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:05 pm 
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https://youtu.be/WzHG-ibZaKM

DAMN ASSAULT REVOLVERS TOO.

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 Post subject: Re: gun control
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:43 am 
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https://youtu.be/WzHG-ibZaKM

DAMN ASSAULT REVOLVERS TOO.


Anyone who knows firearms understands that an "Assault Weapons" ban would accomplish very little.
Perhaps even have unintended consequences.

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 Post subject: Re: gun control
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:36 am 
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I admit to honing my revolver skills lately just as a precaution. You truly never know the power of stupidity in large groups.

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 Post subject: Re: gun control
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:53 pm 
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Anyone who knows firearms understands that an "Assault Weapons" ban would accomplish very little.
Perhaps even have unintended consequences.
Curious to know what you think could be an unintended consequence of banning from purchase of, say, the AR-15.


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 Post subject: Re: gun control
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:33 pm 
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Anyone who knows firearms understands that an "Assault Weapons" ban would accomplish very little.
Perhaps even have unintended consequences.
Curious to know what you think could be an unintended consequence of banning from purchase of, say, the AR-15.
Rediscovery that anyone who can weld can make a Sten gun.

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 Post subject: Re: gun control
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:30 pm 
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Anyone who knows firearms understands that an "Assault Weapons" ban would accomplish very little.
Perhaps even have unintended consequences.
Curious to know what you think could be an unintended consequence of banning from purchase of, say, the AR-15.


Alternatives, that's what.

Non-AR firearms, as have been used in the Virginia Tech Murders, Columbine, the Aurora Theater Murders, and others, clear back to the Texas Tower Murders in 1966.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_shoo ... ted_States

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 Post subject: Re: gun control
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:45 pm 
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Anyone who knows firearms understands that an "Assault Weapons" ban would accomplish very little.
Perhaps even have unintended consequences.
Curious to know what you think could be an unintended consequence of banning from purchase of, say, the AR-15.
Lower body counts such as you saw at Penn State in 1995, the Virginia Tech Murders, Columbine, the Aurora Theater Murders, and others, clear back to the Texas Tower Murders in 1966, as compared to the Orlando Night Club and the Vegas concert shooting.

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 Post subject: Re: gun control
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:55 pm 
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Lower body counts such as you saw at Penn State in 1995, the Virginia Tech Murders, Columbine, the Aurora Theater Murders, and others, clear back to the Texas Tower Murders in 1966, as compared to the Orlando Night Club and the Vegas concert shooting.

You have high body-count incidents committed both with pistols and with AR's. At various times, the "record" has been held by either.* The weapon is not the determining factor.

In the Las Vegas murders, the key factor was firing on a mass of people who couldn't escape. Don't tell me that ten minutes of unimpeded fire with a deer rifle wouldn't accomplish the same horror.

One 30.06 round every 2 seconds X 10 minutes = up to 300 rounds with a truly devastating round. Could that take 58 lives?




*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_shoo ... ted_States

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 Post subject: Re: gun control
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:06 pm 
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Because bad guys never get illegal guns......

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 Post subject: Re: gun control
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:06 pm 
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You're not going to repeat that bullshit about an M4 and AR15 being the "same rifle" again, are you?
You're not going to try to convince me that there is difference between them of any meaningful distinction, are you?

The AR15 used in Parkland would have been a one-for-one swap with the M16A2 I deployed with, for every single mission I was trained for and how I was trained to use it, period. Or with an M4 if they had given me that. Perfect swap.

Convoy protection, day/night fire, room clearing, rapid response drills, assault.

It would have probably been better, since it wouldn't have already had tens of thousands of rounds pumped through it prior to my grubby fingers getting it.
Orwell once said that the hardest things to see are under one's own nose.

Big difference between an AR15 and "your" M16A2 is that selector switch. Burst fire dramatically increases hit probability. I've already discussed the BATF&E but over a certain range burst fire is a real help. Much better than a bump stock or controlled pairs.

Next, you had training in clearance drills. The average civilian goes "what?" when the rounds double feed, stove pipe or the bolt rides over rounds. In contrast you probably remember how to clear each of those maladies quickly.

We civilians don't have armorers who check the condition of key components in the firearm. The gas system being a big one. Military armorers have vast experience with insuring that the rifles work. Most civilians don't clean magazines routinely and that's a huge mistake, especially the characters who drop mags at matches.

There is a reason that your duty weapon was still working after "tens of thousands of rounds". You were part of a vast logistics system.

There is no way in hell that a civilian AR15 is like your M16A2 or M4, legal issues aside.


Since you were kind enough to broach the topic - you have a lot of tactical training too. How many school shooters were Vets?

You with an AR15, which you yourself personally maintained, would be a real problem. You're not the average school shooter, and may not represent any school shooter.

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Last edited by Gene on Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: gun control
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:16 pm 
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The gun owning folks have been winning the enthusiasm battle since forever, which makes sense since you really don't form organizations based around not having something. I can't think of any domain where people gather to enjoy not having a thing. The non-skiers of America, or people that hold "I don't have a pickup truck" rallies. The organizing principle for the "gun grabbers" is they don't want to be shot and killed, which is still a poor theme for a club. Now, here's where the government would step in, but of course the government is on the gun owner's side right now.

But the ones who have stared down the shooting end of a barrel of some terrorists are more motivated for sure.
There are a lot of people who figure that they know what is best for others. The gun control lobby is full of such people. It's not about public safety, it's the conceited attitude that you know what is best for other adults. Protecting kids is an excuse.

The US Military kills more children from "collateral damage" than all domestic mass shootings combined each year. Thousands of kids die from traffic accidents. Quite a few die in hospitals. Death by gun shot wound is very rare in children under the middle teens.

There are 20,000,000 AR15s in circulation. There are not 20,000,000 mass shootings each year. We have a ban on nerve gas and biological agents for Civilians. I've never missed them around the house. I don't miss my AR15. I could not hunt with it back then. I don't trust the gun control lobby to ease up, they're Cause oriented, and people feed on the Cause. "Doing good has no end". Today it's ugly guns, tomorrow it's handguns.

Gun owner compliance rates in Connecticut and New York after their bans were less than twenty percent. Which means that eighty percent of these people who did not comply or register are unconvicted felons. What did this accomplish? Gave the gun control lobby a warm feeling, advanced their Cause. I know how they thought too.

I'm a reformed Drug Warrior. I wanted to see all drug users in prison. When I heard that Civil Forfeiture was the law of the land I was happy - I figured that Police knew what a drug dealer was and would 'stop' them.

I was helping to protect kids from becoming "addicts". I was making America sober and sane. I really believed this bullshit. I felt potent and powerful. In reality I was a weak minded fool, an idiot. I see the gun control lobby as another form of conceited idiot, making war against tens of millions of Americans who don't bother anyone. So that they can feel good about themselves.

The economics of prohibition are clear - outlaw something, raise the risk of marketing it, so it raises the prices and raises the profits. More profits, more people want to get theirs. This would apply to "ghost guns" and 3D printed magazines too.

I was schooled to mind my own business by the War on Drugs. I don't smoke or drink but could care less what other adults do. I wish others would mind their own business too.

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Last edited by Gene on Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:36 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: gun control
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:22 pm 
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Curious to know what you think could be an unintended consequence of banning from purchase of, say, the AR-15.
Substitution with shotguns. Holmes used one at the theater in Aurora Colorado after his AR15 jammed.

Even a revolver can be used in a mass shooting.


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 Post subject: Re: gun control
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:33 pm 
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It's not about public safety, it's the conceited attitude that you know what is best for other adults. Protecting kids is an excuse.
Gene, the majority of folks wouldnt care about gun owners running around with assault weapons if they didn't form the centerpiece of the most horrific shootings. Not sure why this is a confusing point to you.

But anyway, those "excuses for conceited folk" are coming of voting age and are thinking the whole school shooting thing is bullshit, and they are going to demand change, and continue to vote the bums out until they can get some bums that will effect change. K-12 of practicing active shooter drills, having false alarms, and watching other schools get shot up will do that to you. It is an experience you and I don't have, and so don't quite understand.

The repubs have the levers of power right now, and are therefore responsible for the outcomes. This is their chance to get out in front of it.

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 Post subject: Re: gun control
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:09 pm 
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It's not about public safety, it's the conceited attitude that you know what is best for other adults. Protecting kids is an excuse.
Gene, the majority of folks wouldnt care about gun owners running around with assault weapons if they didn't form the centerpiece of the most horrific shootings. Not sure why this is a confusing point to you.
I'm not convinced that a ban on these firearms will curb school shootings. Maybe it's my read of the history on Prohibition, the War on Drugs and the Feinstein ban. They didn't work and in some cases made the problem of violence and suffering even worse.

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 Post subject: Re: gun control
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:22 pm 
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There are at least twenty million military pattern rifles in private hands. They're just as "deadly" as the stuff in the gun stores. A ban must evolve into confiscation, one follows the other.

The public isn't going to accept bloody confiscation raids, especially when the videos show up on Liveleak and other sites. Children will die in these raids, many more than have died in school shootings.

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Last edited by Gene on Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:03 am, edited 6 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: gun control
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:30 pm 
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I figure that the Democrats are using the "assault weapon" ban issue to bully the Republicans into accepting a ban. Such a ban will alienate the Republican's base, giving the Democrats a big majority in Congress.

Trump was right - the Democrats had a chance between 2009 and 2011 to ban ugly guns.

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