Phillip Seymour Hoffman dead

[Bud Charniga's grape ape]

Particularly these days, when many people are (I think rightly) coming to the conclusion that pot is at worst no more harmful than alcohol and should be legalized, the idea that smoking a doob is going to lead straight to sucking a dick for crack money seems ludicrous to me. I can sorta maybe buy it that, when marijuana use was more heavily stigmatized, so that smoking up could be seen as something of a rubicon, that someone might conceivably be more likely to be willing to try harder drugs after smoking (edit, which I think is more or less what Dunn was saying above).

But now? When people think of smoking pot they think of Woody Harrelson, not teh Reefar Madness Negro Jazz musicians, let alone that dude named lefty who wants you to try something just this once.

[The Ginger Beard Man]

I,tend to agree with BD about gateway drugs. I'm an old,fashioned drunk,,and when drunk enough I'll do other stuff.

http://debbiebayerblog.com/2014/02/04/p ... er-do-you/
Came across this in my news feed a little while ago. I have to reread it to form any opinions, but I do think its interesting.

[Turdacious]

Particularly these days, when many people are (I think rightly) coming to the conclusion that pot is at worst no more harmful than alcohol and should be legalized, the idea that smoking a doob is going to lead straight to sucking a dick for crack money seems ludicrous to me. I can sorta maybe buy it that, when marijuana use was more heavily stigmatized, so that smoking up could be seen as something of a rubicon, that someone might conceivably be more likely to be willing to try harder drugs after smoking (edit, which I think is more or less what Dunn was saying above).

But now? When people think of smoking pot they think of Woody Harrelson, not teh Reefar Madness Negro Jazz musicians, let alone that dude named Shape who wants you to try something just this once.

Don't bring him into it.

[syaigh]

Well, having suffered rather devastating post partum depression, I agree with a lot of that. I love my children more than my own life but my brain made me very very ugly for a while.

Reading some of the responses here, I guess I find it refreshing that there are quite a few different struggles being fought inside a lot of us. Sometimes its hard to tell the wolves apart. And if you can't do that, how do you know which one to feed?

[DARTH]

Well, having suffered rather devastating post partum depression, I agree with a lot of that. I love my children more than my own life but my brain made me very very ugly for a while.

Reading some of the responses here, I guess I find it refreshing that there are quite a few different struggles being fought inside a lot of us. Sometimes its hard to tell the wolves apart. And if you can't do that, how do you know which one to feed?

Very well said.

[nafod]

Reading this thread and others about depression is simultaneously saddening (cause I feel for you guys) and inspiring.

[Blaidd Drwg]

Ditto,

I've had the good fortune to spend a pretty fair amount of time with Koko and GBM and lots of offline conversing with Dunn. Each of these three at least are some of the most rock solid, genuine people I've had a chance to meet in my adult life. Would trust my kids with any one of them. Y'all are doing an outstanding job of keeping that devil way down in the hole.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wZZu93VsNA[/youtube]

[DARTH]

Great song, BTW. Christian music makes me gag and my ears bleed but when Tom Waits sings about God, Jesus or the Devil (even when it's a metaphor for something else) it's spiritual as Hell for me much like Bob Marley doing the same.

[Blaidd Drwg]

Great song, BTW. Christian music makes me gag and my ears bleed but when Tom Waits sings about God, Jesus or the Devil (even when it's a metaphor for something else) it's spiritual as Hell for me much like Bob Marley doing the same.

I copy that. Cant' stand the stench of the true believer but can't really help finding something resonant in the songs...especially that early evangelical snake handling revival tent music.

[DARTH]

Great song, BTW. Christian music makes me gag and my ears bleed but when Tom Waits sings about God, Jesus or the Devil (even when it's a metaphor for something else) it's spiritual as Hell for me much like Bob Marley doing the same.

.especially that early evangelical snake handling revival tent music.

That's because like the Sex Pistols they "really mean it, Man!"

[TerryB]

I'm addicted to stimulants and masturbation.

Is there a group for me?

[Ozymandias]

I'm addicted to stimulants and masturbation.

Is there a group for me?

Yes, its an up and coming group.

[Cave Canem]

I'm addicted to stimulants and masturbation.

Is there a group for me?

The Marine Corps.

[nafod]

I'm addicted to stimulants and masturbation.

Is there a group for me?

I think you're there

[Bud Charniga's grape ape]

This piece is an interesting follow up to this conversation.

Would this guy's life be better if he stopped cooking up? Maybe. Probably? I dunno. The big book of Alcoholics Anonymous talks about the distinction between the heavy drinker and the true alcoholic. I'm not super familiar with NA, but I'm willing to bet that that program talks about a grey area too between heavy drug use and full-on, rock bottom, sucking-dick-in-the-alley-for-the-next-hit addiction.

And who knows, maybe in the next year this dude reaches the point where he can't handle his habit, loses his wife, career, home, etc. Certainly I've seen it happen, when people hit the tipping point between "functional" addiction and "oh shit, what just happened to my life."

I think it goes to show that addiction isn't a simple subject. It's not black and white. It's for the individual to decide where to draw the line, as long as one is willing to accept the consequences that come with use. For me, I've decided to draw the line at zero. I can't drink or use anything stronger than coffee without my life quickly spiraling downwards. But that's clearly not the case for everyone, and I think that the quicker we're able to destigmatize drug use in this country, the quicker we'll be able to implement a drug policy that actually helps people.

[Blaidd Drwg]

Outstanding piece.

[WildGorillaMan]

According to this, Hoffman didn't just have an overdose, he had the overdose. Or perhaps it's more reasonable to call them "a collection of overdoses."

http://variety.com/2014/digital/news/ph ... 201123367/

Philip Seymour Hoffman died of acute mixed drug intoxication, including heroin, cocaine, benzodiazepines and amphetamine, the New York City chief medical examiner’s office has determined.

In short, he really did die doing what he loved.

[Turdacious]

This piece is an interesting follow up to this conversation.

Would this guy's life be better if he stopped cooking up? Maybe. Probably? I dunno. The big book of Alcoholics Anonymous talks about the distinction between the heavy drinker and the true alcoholic. I'm not super familiar with NA, but I'm willing to bet that that program talks about a grey area too between heavy drug use and full-on, rock bottom, sucking-dick-in-the-alley-for-the-next-hit addiction.

And who knows, maybe in the next year this dude reaches the point where he can't handle his habit, loses his wife, career, home, etc. Certainly I've seen it happen, when people hit the tipping point between "functional" addiction and "oh shit, what just happened to my life."

I think it goes to show that addiction isn't a simple subject. It's not black and white. It's for the individual to decide where to draw the line, as long as one is willing to accept the consequences that come with use. For me, I've decided to draw the line at zero. I can't drink or use anything stronger than coffee without my life quickly spiraling downwards. But that's clearly not the case for everyone, and I think that the quicker we're able to destigmatize drug use in this country, the quicker we'll be able to implement a drug policy that actually helps people.

I have nothing but respect for those who continue to stay clean and sober one day at a time, but the correlation between an intelligent drug policy that actually helps people and legalization is most likely wishful thinking. I wish I was wrong, but I'm probably not.

[milosz]

I want to meet the woman who marries a professional poker player-cum-crackhead - I imagine she's crazier than a shithouse rat.

[Grandpa's Spells]

I want to meet the woman who marries a professional poker player-cum-crackhead - I imagine she's crazier than a shithouse rat.

He's a bit of an outlier as poker players go.

[Blaidd Drwg]

According to this, Hoffman didn't just have an overdose, he had the overdose. Or perhaps it's more reasonable to call them "a collection of overdoses."

http://variety.com/2014/digital/news/ph ... 201123367/

Philip Seymour Hoffman died of acute mixed drug intoxication, including heroin, cocaine, benzodiazepines and amphetamine, the New York City chief medical examiner’s office has determined.

In short, he really did die doing what he loved.

Wanna know which of those actually killed him? Hint: it is the one housewives are prescribed for anxiety. Heroin is trixy, benzos are fuckin deadly.

[The Venerable Bogatir X]

I just read this thread last night for the first time. Most of it's pretty good.

I'm just a few days shy of one year of no booze and I was drinking very heavily and daily for a couple of years prior to finally quitting. I was a pretty heavy drinker by most people's standards prior to that and one of the "highly functioning, blah blah blah" types. Just a short while ago, a buddy was commenting to me via phone how much discipline and self control I have for this turnaround. I simply told him I felt I am taking the easy way out by not even attempting to touch it.

I am very comfortable being around people enjoying themselves while drinking. While I miss it in some weird ways and do think of alcohol often, I don't 'do battle' in terms of resisting temptation, ect. I just know it's off limits for me now that I got out from underneath it, just like I did with pain pills, cigarettes/cigars, blow and horse racing. I know how I am wired and booze was the last and biggest/most important battle for me. My best bet is to remain obstinate enough to beat the odds that are against me for staying quit.

The 'feedbag' line one of you used is all too true for me with anything that alters mood and knowing how it works against me (and in some ways, how it works to my advantage).

[Bud Charniga's grape ape]

I have nothing but respect for those who continue to stay clean and sober one day at a time, but the correlation between an intelligent drug policy that actually helps people and legalization is most likely wishful thinking. I wish I was wrong, but I'm probably not.

Sorry, didn't see this earlier. I'm not arguing for legalization; I think legalization of the more addictive/destructive drugs is probably not a great move. Decriminalization of personal use, maybe, not treating crack dealers as a billion times more opprobrious than cocaine dealers, sure. I'd much rather see destigmatization first. Simply, that the use of/the addiction to drugs (be they booze, pot, crack, heroin, whatever) is not in and of itself morally reprehensible. Some of the choices that addicts make, and the destruction they can wreak on their friends, family, and innocent passersby ARE morally wrong and I think are appropriately treated as such (and I say this as someone who did some dramatically stupid and potentially deadly things in my own addiction). But the mere fact of use or addiction isn't.

Likewise, while I truly appreciate the respect you have for recovering addicts, I don't think that's necessarily helpful either. I'd much rather see this society get to a place where we treat people who are recovering from addiction similar to how we treat people who are recovering from cancer or diabetes. If we can strip away the morality from use/treatment, I think we're far more likely to see people make use of treatment options before they make too many bad decisions, and wreak too much destruction on passersby.

I'm also realistic enough to think that I'm not likely to see that change happen during my lifetime.

[Bud Charniga's grape ape]

Wanna know which of those actually killed him? Hint: it is the one housewives are prescribed for anxiety. Heroin is trixy, benzos are fuckin deadly.

Well, opiates can kill people pretty well too. But yeah, there are two categories of drugs where detox is medically supervised because the withdrawals can kill you: alcohol and benzos.

[Blaidd Drwg]

Wanna know which of those actually killed him? Hint: it is the one housewives are prescribed for anxiety. Heroin is trixy, benzos are fuckin deadly.

Well, opiates can kill people pretty well too. But yeah, there are two categories of drugs where detox is medically supervised because the withdrawals can kill you: alcohol and benzos.

It's true but it's harder than you think on it's own. Like a lot harder than you think. You toss other CNS depressant in the mix and Bob's your Uncle...in Hell.