Coal Industry

Topics without replies are pruned every 365 days. Not moderated.

Moderator: Dux

Post Reply
User avatar
nafod
Lifetime IGer
Posts: 11475
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 5:01 pm
Location: Looking in your window

Coal Industry

Post by nafod » Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:34 pm

Someone needs to figure out how to do something valuable with coal that doesn't involve burning it as a fuel.

Good article
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/16/opini ... ght-region
Austin, Tex. — Donald J. Trump made many important campaign promises on his way to victory. But saving coal is one promise he won’t be able to keep.

Many in Appalachia and other coal-mining regions believe that President Obama’s supposed war on coal caused a steep decline in the industry’s fortunes. But coal’s struggles to compete are caused by cheap natural gas, cheap renewables, air-quality regulations that got their start in the George W. Bush administration and weaker-than-expected demand for coal in Asia.
My father grew up in coal country, joined to the Navy to avoid the mines, and my grandfather was a coal miner who died eventually of complications from black lung, so I've always kept an eye on the industry. The stuff is just nasty to burn, even "clean" coal. Natural gas is going to nut-kick it out of business. But it is energy-laden...
Don’t believe everything you think.

dead man walking
Sergeant Commanding
Posts: 6797
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:34 pm

Re: Coal Industry

Post by dead man walking » Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:56 pm

nafod wrote:Someone needs to figure out how to do something valuable with coal that doesn't involve burning it as a fuel.
put it in your kids' stockings.

ps--the article nafod cited is excellent
Really Big Strong Guy: There are a plethora of psychopaths among us.

User avatar
powerlifter54
Sergeant Commanding
Posts: 7934
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 5:46 pm
Location: TX

Re: Coal Industry

Post by powerlifter54 » Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:19 pm

nafod wrote:Someone needs to figure out how to do something valuable with coal that doesn't involve burning it as a fuel.

Good article
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/16/opini ... ght-region
Austin, Tex. — Donald J. Trump made many important campaign promises on his way to victory. But saving coal is one promise he won’t be able to keep.

Many in Appalachia and other coal-mining regions believe that President Obama’s supposed war on coal caused a steep decline in the industry’s fortunes. But coal’s struggles to compete are caused by cheap natural gas, cheap renewables, air-quality regulations that got their start in the George W. Bush administration and weaker-than-expected demand for coal in Asia.
My father grew up in coal country, joined to the Navy to avoid the mines, and my grandfather was a coal miner who died eventually of complications from black lung, so I've always kept an eye on the industry. The stuff is just nasty to burn, even "clean" coal. Natural gas is going to nut-kick it out of business. But it is energy-laden...
Trying to research conversion of plants to NG from Coal. Gut feeling is way cheaper than new plants, but not finding much info. Any thoughts? i think we can wean ourselves off coal, but bragging about putting Coal Miners out of Jobs was D-U-M-B.
"Start slowly, then ease off". Tortuga Golden Striders Running Club, Pensacola 1984.

"But even snake wrestling beats life in the cube, for me at least. In measured doses."-Lex

User avatar
Pinky
Sergeant Commanding
Posts: 7100
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:09 pm

Re: Coal Industry

Post by Pinky » Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:22 pm

Carbon tax. Then let the industry figure out how they want to produce energy.
"The biggest problems that we’re facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all."

User avatar
syaigh
Sergeant Commanding
Posts: 5677
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:29 am
Location: Surrounded by short irrational people

Re: Coal Industry

Post by syaigh » Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:28 pm

Yeah, lots of family members in both PA and TN were coal miners. Lots died early from black lung as well.
Miss Piggy wrote:Never eat more than you can lift.

User avatar
nafod
Lifetime IGer
Posts: 11475
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 5:01 pm
Location: Looking in your window

Re: Coal Industry

Post by nafod » Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:33 pm

powerlifter54 wrote:Trying to research conversion of plants to NG from Coal. Gut feeling is way cheaper than new plants, but not finding much info. Any thoughts?
http://www.4cleanair.org/sites/default/ ... pter_9.pdf
The third fuel-switching strategy is to repower the EGU,
that is, to modify the unit or the fuel delivery system to accommodate
the use of a lower-emitting fuel not previously
used. For example, a coal-fired EGU might be reconstructed
to burn natural gas, thus reducing the unit’s emissions rate.
Switching fuels is one of the most straightforward and
technologically feasible strategies for reducing emissions,
but it is not a trivial undertaking.
Lots of powerplants are multi-fuel plants, where for example they burn coal, but have gas turbines (like on a Spruance destroyer) as supplement. They can switch roles on who is prime and who is backup.
Don’t believe everything you think.

dead man walking
Sergeant Commanding
Posts: 6797
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:34 pm

Re: Coal Industry

Post by dead man walking » Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:35 pm

syaigh wrote:Yeah, lots of family members in both PA and TN were coal miners. Lots died early from black lung as well.
you load 16 tons and what do you get?
another day older and deeper in debt
tennessee ernie ford
Really Big Strong Guy: There are a plethora of psychopaths among us.

climber511
Gunny
Posts: 961
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:59 pm

Re: Coal Industry

Post by climber511 » Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:37 pm

Live in south eastern Ohio - coal has been big here but over the last decade or two it has been declining. The coal here is relatively dirty which doesn't help. If some technology isn't developed I think coal is done for - both at the mining level and the burning level it just has a lot of health and environmental problems. And since the natural gas production has exploded so much around here - I think it's the kiss of death for coal.

User avatar
Turdacious
Lifetime IGer
Posts: 20557
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 6:54 am
Location: Upon the eternal throne of the great Republic of Turdistan

Re: Coal Industry

Post by Turdacious » Wed Nov 16, 2016 3:30 pm

Pinky wrote:Carbon tax. Then let the industry figure out how they want to produce energy.
The one you want and the one you'd get once it got out of Congress would be very different beasts I think.
"Liberalism is arbitrarily selective in its choice of whose dignity to champion." Adrian Vermeule

Andy83
Sgt. Major
Posts: 2650
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:07 am

Re: Coal Industry

Post by Andy83 » Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:48 pm

If Trump decides to get the industry up, running and buzzing again, it shall be done. With no soot in the air or black lungs. Guaranteed.
Obama's narcissism and arrogance is only superseded by his naivete and stupidity.

User avatar
Pinky
Sergeant Commanding
Posts: 7100
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:09 pm

Re: Coal Industry

Post by Pinky » Wed Nov 16, 2016 6:59 pm

Turdacious wrote:
Pinky wrote:Carbon tax. Then let the industry figure out how they want to produce energy.
The one you want and the one you'd get once it got out of Congress would be very different beasts I think.
The set of policy proposals that make sense and the set that might survive Congress have very little overlap.

I should add that at least some of the revenue from any carbon tax should be spent helping the displaced workers adjust. That won't happen either, but at least it's a nice thought.
"The biggest problems that we’re facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all."

Post Reply