Jordan Peterson

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Grandpa's Spells
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Re: Jordan Peterson

Post by Grandpa's Spells » Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:53 pm

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Re: Jordan Peterson

Post by buckethead » Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:11 am

I bought 12 Rules for life and couldn't get past chapter 3. It helped elucidate my love/hate relationship with Jordan. I think he's absolutely fantastic at the diagnosis of problems, personal and social, but I think he's often terrible at solutions for those problems. He seems to want to fight postmodernism by going back to 1950 grand-plan modernism. I think an Eric or Bret Weinstein are better poised to provide ideas that move us forward.

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Re: Jordan Peterson

Post by Grandpa's Spells » Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:58 am

He’s a super-poor communicator.
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Re: Jordan Peterson

Post by buckethead » Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:00 am

Grandpa's Spells wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:58 am
He’s a super-poor communicator.
I’m not sure about that one. How do you mean?

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Re: Jordan Peterson

Post by Grandpa's Spells » Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:55 am

buckethead wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:00 am
Grandpa's Spells wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:58 am
He’s a super-poor communicator.
I’m not sure about that one. How do you mean?
He often writes or speaks about subjects when his point could be described simply, and he always leans towards doing so as precisely and at length as possible, using his complete vocabulary, which is very extensive. He could be clear, but instead he’s verbose, and therefore prone to being misunderstood.

If his message is really targeted and young men who need to get their shit together, he should be deliberately writing at a 7th-8th grade level.
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Re: Jordan Peterson

Post by Gene » Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:35 pm

Yes, I'm drunk wrote:
Fri May 19, 2017 4:16 am
LOL @ Peterson's fan boi's.

He makes me feel gud about teh things I think.
So you're saying that he appeals to stupid people?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMcjxSThD54&t=16s

Here's the list of her "So you're saying?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-rE03PGQfA

He has some good ideas.
Last edited by Gene on Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jordan Peterson

Post by Gene » Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:36 pm

Grandpa's Spells wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:55 am
buckethead wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:00 am
Grandpa's Spells wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:58 am
He’s a super-poor communicator.
I’m not sure about that one. How do you mean?
He often writes or speaks about subjects when his point could be described simply, and he always leans towards doing so as precisely and at length as possible, using his complete vocabulary, which is very extensive. He could be clear, but instead he’s verbose, and therefore prone to being misunderstood.

If his message is really targeted and young men who need to get their shit together, he should be deliberately writing at a 7th-8th grade level.
He's an academic.
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Re: Jordan Peterson

Post by Herv100 » Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:50 am

Spells doesn't like him because he's not a liberal commie faggot
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Re: Jordan Peterson

Post by Grandpa's Spells » Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:35 pm

One of the downsides of the Internet is that it allows like-minded people to form communities, and sometimes those communities are stupid.

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Re: Jordan Peterson

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:58 pm

buckethead wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:11 am
I bought 12 Rules for life and couldn't get past chapter 3. It helped elucidate my love/hate relationship with Jordan. I think he's absolutely fantastic at the diagnosis of problems, personal and social, but I think he's often terrible at solutions for those problems. He seems to want to fight postmodernism by going back to 1950 grand-plan modernism. I think an Eric or Bret Weinstein are better poised to provide ideas that move us forward.
This is as succinct a critique as I've seen that I can completely agree with.
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Re: Jordan Peterson

Post by Fat Cat » Wed Aug 29, 2018 5:47 pm

I'm totally lost in the new forest of celebrity intellectuals. I hear names like Peterson, Shapiro, Zizek, Weinstein, Harris and I haven't a clue who they are. Isn't Peterson the one who's great crime is his traditional views on pronouns? Is that 1950s grand-plan modernism?
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Re: Jordan Peterson

Post by JimZipCode » Wed Aug 29, 2018 7:24 pm

Fat Cat wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 5:47 pm
Isn't Peterson the one who's great crime is his traditional views on pronouns? Is that 1950s grand-plan modernism?
That's how Peterson rose to fame, yes. But since getting the soap box, he's pronounced his views on how women who wear makeup in the office are asking to get sexually harassed, and so forth. Some whacky stuff.

It's not illustrated in the interview linked here, where the interviewer was frankly off the deep end. Peterson seems completely normal and reasonable there. Elsewhere, not so much.
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Re: Jordan Peterson

Post by Fat Cat » Wed Aug 29, 2018 7:46 pm

JimZipCode wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 7:24 pm
Fat Cat wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 5:47 pm
Isn't Peterson the one who's great crime is his traditional views on pronouns? Is that 1950s grand-plan modernism?
That's how Peterson rose to fame, yes. But since getting the soap box, he's pronounced his views on how women who wear makeup in the office are asking to get sexually harassed, and so forth. Some whacky stuff.

It's not illustrated in the interview linked here, where the interviewer was frankly off the deep end. Peterson seems completely normal and reasonable there. Elsewhere, not so much.
If this didn't come through in my original post, allow me to clarify: I don't care. I'm just mildly amused that anybody else does.
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Re: Jordan Peterson

Post by Kazuya Mishima » Wed Aug 29, 2018 7:48 pm

Fat Cat wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 5:47 pm
I'm totally lost in the new forest of celebrity intellectuals. I hear names like Peterson, Shapiro, Zizek, Weinstein, Harris and I haven't a clue who they are. Isn't Peterson the one who's great crime is his traditional views on pronouns? Is that 1950s grand-plan modernism?
Not so much his views on those particular pronouns, but the fact that the Canadian government was going to criminalize the act of refusing to use "alternate pronouns" (i.e., pandering to the whims of some post-millennial neurotic who insists that you call them ze/zir, or acquiesce to their fantasy world gender/species identity). Peterson rightfully identified this as compelled speech, and preached the evils of it to a largely tone deaf population...the result of what happens when a nation replaces civics classes with grievance studies.

He's a bit goofy, dramatic to a fault, and Sam Harris has rightfully called him out on the sophistry that he regularly partakes in when going down his Maps of Meaning rabbit hole excursions. However, he was dead on correct for railing against the compelled speech issue and serves as a lesson that those who warn against "Cultural Marxism" (and the like) aren't always tinfoil hat conspiracy theorists who are barking up the wrong tree. It would have been a dangerous precedent, and the issue was much larger than Peterson himself.

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Re: Jordan Peterson

Post by Fat Cat » Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:05 pm

So he made a YouTube video about it? How very...Canadian. IMHO, All Marxists should be lined up and shot, economic, cultural, or otherwise. While we're at it, shoot the intersectional feminists, race demagogues, and the homogenizing identity politicians. People are not reducible to their sex, their race, their tribe.
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Re: Jordan Peterson

Post by Kazuya Mishima » Wed Aug 29, 2018 10:57 pm

Fat Cat wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:05 pm
So he made a YouTube video about it? How very...Canadian. IMHO, All Marxists should be lined up and shot, economic, cultural, or otherwise. While we're at it, shoot the intersectional feminists, race demagogues, and the homogenizing identity politicians. People are not reducible to their sex, their race, their tribe.
He made videos, but also debated this on television and addressed it during his speaking tours.

And yes, free helicopter rides for all the fine insect types that you mention.

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Re: Jordan Peterson

Post by Fat Cat » Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:37 pm

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Re: Jordan Peterson

Post by Turdacious » Thu Aug 30, 2018 5:06 am

Fat Cat wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:05 pm
So he made a YouTube video about it? How very...Canadian. IMHO, All Marxists should be lined up and shot, economic, cultural, or otherwise. While we're at it, shoot the intersectional feminists, race demagogues, and the homogenizing identity politicians. People are not reducible to their sex, their race, their tribe.
Whether or not anyone agrees with this sentiment, we can all agree that our world lacks the adequate bullet supply to make this happen.
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Re: Jordan Peterson

Post by Fat Cat » Thu Aug 30, 2018 5:53 pm

Piano wire is cheap.
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Re: Jordan Peterson

Post by Sangoma » Fri Aug 31, 2018 12:37 am

Peterson is an interesting guy to listen to, but he tires me quite quickly. Maybe it's his whining voice, I don't know. He makes very good points in regards to social warrior justice, but I think he overuses the word Marxism. I know he is talking about excessive control of things, but Marx was by far not the only one preaching control and was by far more than just that. I guess Peterson is not the only one overusing this term anyway, so that's ok.

In any case, he is not against some control, and this is where things can get sticky. What about mega-corporations colluding to lock in high prices? What about large banks manipulating the markets up and down? What about Pharma selling snake oil? Well, what about direct financial interests in the government? Some control is obviously needed, but how to implement it is another issue altogether.
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Re: Jordan Peterson

Post by Fat Cat » Fri Aug 31, 2018 1:07 am

In the context you're discussing, is he referring to Marxist economic policy or is he referring to the modern phenomenon of cultural Marxism?
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Re: Jordan Peterson

Post by Sangoma » Fri Aug 31, 2018 1:19 am

I have the impression he calls Marxist anybody who criticises any aspect of Capitalism. But then, as I pointed out, he does not completely deny that the system does have problems.
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Re: Jordan Peterson

Post by Turdacious » Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:15 am

Sangoma wrote:
Fri Aug 31, 2018 1:19 am
I have the impression he calls Marxist anybody who criticises any aspect of Capitalism.
I've never gotten the impression that's what he's doing. His most interesting stuff IMHO is criticism of the strains of cultural Marxism infecting North American universities.
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Re: Jordan Peterson

Post by Sangoma » Fri Aug 31, 2018 7:06 am

Define cultural Marxism.
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Re: Jordan Peterson

Post by Grandpa's Spells » Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:52 pm

Turdacious wrote:
Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:15 am
Sangoma wrote:
Fri Aug 31, 2018 1:19 am
I have the impression he calls Marxist anybody who criticises any aspect of Capitalism.
I've never gotten the impression that's what he's doing. His most interesting stuff IMHO is criticism of the strains of cultural Marxism infecting North American universities.
Yeah that's dumb. You'd be incredibly hard-pressed to find significant numbers of people endorsing Marxism on college campuses, and none of any influence. Peterson had a TBI in the 80's and thinks there are still Marxists running around college campuses.

The far left on campuses are incredibly annoying in many ways, but virtually none are endorsing the transfer of the means of production to the state.
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