gun control

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johno
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Re: gun control

Post by johno » Fri May 18, 2018 3:34 pm

nafod wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 2:57 pm
johno wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 2:40 pm
Some people instinctively blame the criminal. Others blame the victim.
I blame the stupid.

You probably conflate illegal immigrants with the legal ones also. Just call them "Immigrants." No need to make moral & legal distinctions.
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Are full of passionate intensity.

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Re: gun control

Post by nafod » Fri May 18, 2018 4:19 pm

johno wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 3:34 pm
nafod wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 2:57 pm
johno wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 2:40 pm
Some people instinctively blame the criminal. Others blame the victim.
I blame the stupid.
You probably conflate illegal immigrants with the legal ones also. Just call them "Immigrants." No need to make moral & legal distinctions.
This is about leaving the gate open with a sign saying "Come on in, guys!" and then complaining when they come on in.
Police in Georgia announced this week the arrest of a man and a woman accused of breaking into vehicles in metro Atlanta in what appeared to be a coordinated campaign to steal firearms. Authorities said the duo had stolen more than 40 firearms in 161 vehicle break-ins across dozens of locations since January. That means that about one out of every four cars they ransacked had a gun in it.

The case highlights a nationwide trend that experts say stems from increasingly lax state rules around storing and carrying guns. Legislators in many states — including Texas, Georgia, Nevada, and Kansas — have passed laws in recent years to make it easier for gun owners to go armed into public spaces, shoot in self defense from behind the wheel, or stash weapons in their cars. As those statutes pave the way for gun owners to bring their weapons along whenever they leave home, some of those owners wind up stowing their firearms in the glovebox, the center console, or under their seats — where they are ripe for the plucking.
Relaxed gun ownership rules = more guns in the hands of bad guys due to stupid dumbass legal gun owners leaving their shit laying around where crooks can easily grab it
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Re: gun control

Post by Fat Cat » Fri May 18, 2018 5:21 pm

If someone's car is stolen, it's their fault right? :rolleyes:

Anyway, I suppose it's easier to blame victims than to address poverty or the other factors that actually cause gun violence.
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Re: gun control

Post by Grandpa's Spells » Fri May 18, 2018 6:14 pm

Fat Cat wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 5:21 pm
If someone's car is stolen, it's their fault right? :rolleyes:
If they leave the door open with the keys in it, they are playing a role. Burglaries normally happen when doors and windows are unlocked. Guns are stolen in burglaries when they are left unlocked or in obvious hiding places.
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Re: gun control

Post by nafod » Fri May 18, 2018 6:16 pm

Fat Cat wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 5:21 pm
If someone's car is stolen, it's their fault right? :rolleyes:
If they leave their car sitting there with the keys in it? Yes, they just paid the stupid tax. They are retarded. But life is full of those people.

The problem here is that whoever stealing it is then turning around and using it to run other people down.

You guys of all people should be pissed off at your knucklehead retarded subset of the legal owning brethren, as they are pissing in the gun owning argument pool with their stupidity. Yet here you are defending their retardation. I don't get it.

This ought to be common ground for reasonable people.

I mean, when a central argument for good people owning guns is that there are in fact bad people out there, you'd think they'd be smart enough to know that some of those bad people are thieves and your gun is a target. You would think.

“The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is with a good guy with a gun,” LaPierre said.

Well damn, stop acting like a part of the illegal gun supply chain already, and maybe you won't have so many bad guys with guns.
Last edited by nafod on Fri May 18, 2018 6:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: gun control

Post by Fat Cat » Fri May 18, 2018 6:25 pm

Grandpa's Spells wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 6:14 pm
Fat Cat wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 5:21 pm
If someone's car is stolen, it's their fault right? :rolleyes:
If they leave the door open with the keys in it, they are playing a role. Burglaries normally happen when doors and windows are unlocked. Guns are stolen in burglaries when they are left unlocked or in obvious hiding places.
If.
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Re: gun control

Post by Grandpa's Spells » Fri May 18, 2018 6:37 pm

nafod wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 6:16 pm
You guys of all people should be pissed off at your knucklehead retarded subset of the legal owning brethren, as they are pissing in the gun owning argument pool with their stupidity. I mean, when a central argument for good people owning guns is that there are bad people out there, you'd think you'd be smart enough to know that some of them are thieves and your gun is a target. You would think.
This is exactly what the last firearms instructor (vet, competitive shooter, full time LE firearms trainer for a PD with a SWAT team) discussed in the the course I was a couple weeks ago. Responsible gun owners have a responsibility to be responsible. Every time some dumbass NDs, or has a gun stolen that's used in a crime, or shoots their kid because they didn't ID before firing, or gets shot by their toddler because they didn't secure their firearm, they lend weight to gun grabber arguments.

This class was literally a case study in gun nuts (it was a CCW course, so most guys were punching a ticket to carry, they were not the type you see at training courses). The older gent who couldn't wait to go on at length about his rights, and talked about having been around guns his own life, prompted gentle pushback from the instructor. "Hey, when I hear somebody say they've been around guns their own life, that familiarity sometimes leads to lax safety and security. Not you necessarily, but for many that mindset can be dangerous." Negligent discharge at the range 2 hours later.

Instructor: "Don't hide a gun if you have small kids around, lock it. Hiding defends against burglaries. Kids have unlimited time to find things."
Gent's gun monologue excerpts: "I hide my gun in a Vikings bucket in the basement. Also I have my gun to protect my grandkids and am not afraid to shoot somebody if I have to. I'll do it. I know I will."

Gent also swept people with the muzzle, and was generally dangerous to be around because he was careless as shit. His wife wanted to know if she could legally shoot someone who shot her horse. I thought her horse needs to stop pissing off the wrong people. This was in rural IL where there is virtually no violent crime.
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Re: gun control

Post by Schlegel » Fri May 18, 2018 8:21 pm

Thing is, there's a lot prohibited zones sprinkled around that force a carrier to leave their EDC in the car. I have a lockable compartment in a lockable car but if a criminal wants something all i can do is make it take a little longer. Same is true for guns at home. I have a safe to protect my children. Protecting the guns is secondary to that. If i am burgled all a safe does is buy time. Most people would be fucking amazed at how much it costs to buy a safe that's proof against simple tools like an angle grinder. South of 3 grand they are better described as "steel cabinets" As far as I'm concerned anybody that breaks though 2 locks to steal from me is responsible for their actions, not me.

As far as the old guy story goes, I'm not surprised. The rigorous culture of safety practices is pretty modern.. my dad never had a safe or a gun lock. No one i ever knew as a kid did, and that was in a rural area where rifles were a universal. If you look at training films or footage of practice from the 50s or earlier you'll see stuff that would make a modern RSO's head explode.
Look at "purse carry". Used to be standard for women, now it's universally discouraged by instructors.
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Re: gun control

Post by Gene » Sun May 20, 2018 6:49 am

Schlegel wrote: Thing is, there's a lot prohibited zones sprinkled around that force a carrier to leave their EDC in the car. I have a lockable compartment in a lockable car but if a criminal wants something all i can do is make it take a little longer. Same is true for guns at home. I have a safe to protect my children. Protecting the guns is secondary to that. If i am burgled all a safe does is buy time. Most people would be fucking amazed at how much it costs to buy a safe that's proof against simple tools like an angle grinder. South of 3 grand they are better described as "steel cabinets" As far as I'm concerned anybody that breaks though 2 locks to steal from me is responsible for their actions, not me.
Even the "real" safes can be cracked open. How much time does it take? I agree that the lesser priced gun safes aren't much, they'll protect against a fire but they're basically sheet steel over some sort of ceramic crap. Burglars like to "get in, get out" so they're discouraged but not stopped.

I own an automobile safe. A pair of bolt cutters will defeat it. Lot better than leaving it in a glove compartment for some pissant kid to tote off. When I have to be somewhere that I'm supposed to be a Good Sheeple I lock it down and hide it. Post offices, schools, government buildings, and so on. Such a safe is under $100.

A concealed carry pistol requires a lot of time and effort to use well. I do have pairs of them but no two handguns is exactly identical. A gun safe is respect for ones own time and money. Range time is like mat time, both are valuable.
Schlegel wrote: As far as the old guy story goes, I'm not surprised. The rigorous culture of safety practices is pretty modern.. my dad never had a safe or a gun lock. No one i ever knew as a kid did, and that was in a rural area where rifles were a universal. If you look at training films or footage of practice from the 50s or earlier you'll see stuff that would make a modern RSO's head explode.
Look at "purse carry". Used to be standard for women, now it's universally discouraged by instructors.
Fundamental safety is old school. Cooper's four rules were around for decades before Cooper framed them.

1. All guns are loaded.
2. Don't put the muzzle over anything you don't want to destroy.
3. Keep your finger off of the trigger until your sight is on the target.
4. Be sure of your target.

I agree that knowledge of ADs is better today but following Cooper's rules would have taken care of that too.

Nothing there about "gun safety" as sick fucks like Mike Bloomberg frame it. Bloomberg hires professional bodyguards. So do many gun control nuts with serious money. Guns are for their bodyguards, not for you. Bloomberg and his ilk are elitist pigs.

Who the heck puts a firearm into a purse? That's like giving a purse snatcher a special extra surprise. Women today can get really nice holsters. As a group women are better shots than men too. An armed woman is a free woman.
Last edited by Gene on Sun May 20, 2018 8:20 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: gun control

Post by Gene » Sun May 20, 2018 7:18 am

nafod wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 6:16 pm
You guys of all people should be pissed off at your knucklehead retarded subset of the legal owning brethren, as they are pissing in the gun owning argument pool with their stupidity. Yet here you are defending their retardation. I don't get it.

This ought to be common ground for reasonable people.

I mean, when a central argument for good people owning guns is that there are in fact bad people out there, you'd think they'd be smart enough to know that some of those bad people are thieves and your gun is a target. You would think.

“The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is with a good guy with a gun,” LaPierre said.

Well damn, stop acting like a part of the illegal gun supply chain already, and maybe you won't have so many bad guys with guns.
While this is true the control freak logic "Mandatory Safe storage" doesn't follow. This isn't Sweden or Norway, or even Germany. We don't need a government that mandates what is not forbidden.
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Re: gun control

Post by Gene » Sun May 20, 2018 8:17 am

Like most gun owners I look around and go, "What are these people freaking out about?" 99.999 percent of firearms sit in safes and underwear drawers. Doing nothing. If gun owners really believed that they were a problem they'd be like that guy who sawed his AR15. They wouldn't be buying more guns at the least.

Most gun owners will probably give them up if coerced but will get payback in some way. Better for the control freaks if they shot it out with confiscators than the payback they will deliver. The political grief this group can deliver will be epic. Politicians know this and fear it.

I guess a lot of folks are being brainwashed by Oligarchs. The US Media is mostly owned by just six Corporate conglomerates. Air time and print real estate are very expensive. If these people are devoting both to David Hogg's adolescent rants then they have an Agenda. The agenda is control of people. All the better to squeeze them under Administrative Law.

Noam Chomsky wrote an entire book about "Manufacturing Consent". Here's an example... Corporate America driving gun control.
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Re: gun control

Post by JimZipCode » Sun May 20, 2018 5:24 pm

Gene wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 8:17 am
Like most gun owners I look around and go, "What are these people freaking out about?"
Dead kids.
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Re: gun control

Post by Gene » Sun May 20, 2018 7:33 pm

JimZipCode wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 5:24 pm
Gene wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 8:17 am
Like most gun owners I look around and go, "What are these people freaking out about?"
Dead kids.
Nope. That's the excuse.... the real cause is a power grab.

This is from CDC mortality data from 2015. All causes.

Ages 1-4

Accidents 1235
Congenital malformations 435
Assault/Homicide 369
Malignant neoplasms 354


Ages 5-9
Accidents 755
Malignant neoplasms 437
congenital malformations 181
Assault homicide 140


Ages 10-14
Accidents 763
malignant neoplasms 428
intentional self harm 409
assault/homicide 158

Ages 15-19
Acidents 3919
Intentional self harm 2061
assault homicide 1587
Malignant neoplasms 583

Total death 13814 total homicide 2254


Total homicides all causes 16.32 percent. This includes firearms, knives, and beatings. A lot of toddlers are beaten to death. Note that eighteen and nineteen year olds are legal adults.

The Brady Campaign lumps in 20 to 24 year olds because they give a more impressive figure for homicide, more than doubles it.

Accidents 8,595
Intentional Harm 3,430
Assault Homicide 3,430
Malignant Neoplasms 3,146

If we were to use the 20 to 24 year old figures for 18 and 19 years old and assume an even distribution then the figures then 3,430/4 = 858 people, taken from 1587 gives a homicide rate for 15 to 18 year olds of just 729 murdered kids 18 to 15, a total percentage of ten percent homicide against all causes.

Still too high.... how will Background checks, assault weapon bans and other topical gimmicks work? Probably won't work.

This suggests a ratchet effect leading to total prohibition.



https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/dvs/LCWK1_2015.pdf
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Re: gun control

Post by nafod » Sun May 20, 2018 8:01 pm

Gene, the dead aren’t the only victims here. Every single piece of research done tells us that being involved in a school shooting, not killed or even wounded but just involved, is enormously traumatizing. Giving out PTSD like candy.
More than 214,000 students have experienced gun violence at school since Columbine

...Beyond the dead and wounded, children who witness the violence or cower behind locked doors to hide from it can be profoundly traumatized.
By the way, about those responsible legal gun owners...
In cases where the source of the gun could be determined, more than 85 percent of shooters brought them from their own homes or obtained them from friends or relatives, according to The Post’s analysis.

The ranks of school shooters include a 6-year-old boy, who killed a classmate after saying he didn’t like her, and a 15-year-old girl, who did the same to a friend for rejecting her romantic overtures.

Seven in 10 of them, however, were under the age of 18, which means that — often because of an adult’s negligence — dozens of children had access to deadly weapons.
Don’t believe everything you think.

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Re: gun control

Post by johno » Sun May 20, 2018 8:04 pm

This latest shooter in Texas: shotgun and revolver.
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Re: gun control

Post by nafod » Sun May 20, 2018 8:09 pm

johno wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 8:04 pm
This latest shooter in Texas: shotgun and revolver.
Thank goodness, or it’d be in the 20s or 30s of dead.
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Re: gun control

Post by JimZipCode » Sun May 20, 2018 8:13 pm

Gene wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 7:33 pm
Nope. That's the excuse.... the real cause is a power grab.
Sez you. Sounds like bullshit.

Is your theory that not enough attention is paid to malignant neoplasms?
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Re: gun control

Post by johno » Sun May 20, 2018 8:17 pm

nafod wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 8:09 pm
johno wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 8:04 pm
This latest shooter in Texas: shotgun and revolver.
Thank goodness, or it’d be in the 20s or 30s of dead.

What's your source for that?
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Are full of passionate intensity.

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Re: gun control

Post by Gene » Sun May 20, 2018 9:12 pm

JimZipCode wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 8:13 pm
Gene wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 7:33 pm
Nope. That's the excuse.... the real cause is a power grab.
Sez you. Sounds like bullshit.

Is your theory that not enough attention is paid to malignant neoplasms?
I'm a reformed Drug Warrior. "It's for the children" is an old gimmick for social mobilization. The drug war began during the Nixon administration. I was in grade school and high school. The hippies and liberals are poisoning the children.

Bloomberg is trying the same bullshit with firearms. He and his Oligarch buddies. Anyone who doesn't agree with their "plan" hates children. Bullshit in the 1970s, it's bullshit today.


Appealing to a parent's instinct to protect kids is old hat. Even Stalin and Hitler used it.

Image

Here is Hitler with some "aryan" children. He often "justified" his excesses by appealing to their futures.


A piece of "Socialist realism".


Image


Am I calling any gun control person a Nazi or Commie? Nope. Am I implying that "It's for the children" is an old old gimmick of astroturf mass movements, such as Everytown or the "Parkland Children"? Yeap.

I spent a little time on the same CDC source that the Brady Campaign is using. I get some interesting numbers.
Last edited by Gene on Sun May 20, 2018 11:08 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: gun control

Post by Gene » Sun May 20, 2018 9:13 pm

nafod wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 8:01 pm
Gene, the dead aren’t the only victims here. Every single piece of research done tells us that being involved in a school shooting, not killed or even wounded but just involved, is enormously traumatizing. Giving out PTSD like candy.
More than 214,000 students have experienced gun violence at school since Columbine

...Beyond the dead and wounded, children who witness the violence or cower behind locked doors to hide from it can be profoundly traumatized.
Been 19 years since Columbine. That's 11,263 kids per year. You believe that figure? I'm a bit skeptical. Where did you get it? Allowing for 180 days of school per year we're talking 63 kids per day, over a span of 19 years. That's a fantastic and suspiciously round figure, Nafod.

nafod wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 8:01 pm
By the way, about those responsible legal gun owners...
In cases where the source of the gun could be determined, more than 85 percent of shooters brought them from their own homes or obtained them from friends or relatives, according to The Post’s analysis.

The ranks of school shooters include a 6-year-old boy, who killed a classmate after saying he didn’t like her, and a 15-year-old girl, who did the same to a friend for rejecting her romantic overtures.

Seven in 10 of them, however, were under the age of 18, which means that — often because of an adult’s negligence — dozens of children had access to deadly weapons.

Texas has a "safe storage law", Nafod. Texas law defines a "child" as someone 17 and younger. Dimitrious Paogourtzis is 17. The Texas authorities are going to be talking to his pappy.


https://codes.findlaw.com/tx/penal-code ... 46-13.html


Anyone else a little tired of these appeals to laws that don't seem to reliably work?
Last edited by Gene on Sun May 20, 2018 9:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: gun control

Post by Gene » Sun May 20, 2018 9:26 pm

nafod wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 8:09 pm
johno wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 8:04 pm
This latest shooter in Texas: shotgun and revolver.
Thank goodness, or it’d be in the 20s or 30s of dead.
Maybe the AR15 would have jammed while he was rapid fire shooting the first magazine. Body count could have been lower. Maybe someone would have seen it, since they are not especially tiny firearms, called the police?

Quick test.... sporting purpose or "weapon of war"?

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Re: gun control

Post by Gene » Sun May 20, 2018 11:07 pm

Going to the same source that Sangoma and the Brady Campaign cited.... these are all for 2015 data.

Unlike the Brady bunch, which seems to think that suicides, being shot by police and AD count as something special, I just covered homicides. You know, what most of us are worried about out here.

Homicide by firearm, 572 people in the age range from 0 to 19 in 2015.

Change nothing but the upper age to 24. Ages 0 to 24, homicide by firearms climbs to 1,625. That's over a thousand more, and why? Why do youth 19 to 24 die more often? Why does the Brady Campaign call them all "children" when they can sign contracts and fight in our wars?

Change nothing but the age range from 0 to 17, which are legally children - 263 deaths. From all firearms.

Change it to handguns for ages 0 to 17 - 157 dead for 2015.

Change it from firearms to "struck by or against" for ages 0 to 17 - 163 dead kids. More kids are killed by being struck than from being killed with handguns. A lot of mean step daddies out there.

Mass shooting deaths 0 to 17 years of age (2 or more people) - 53 dead from all firearms combined.

Homicides using a rifle of 0 to 17 - 11 deaths. No mention of "assault weapons" but the AR15 is classified as a rifle.

(I checked off Violent death counts and rates, Homicide only, all relationships, Firearm, all types, 2015, all funded States, all races, all ethnicities, all places of injury, all pregnancy status, homeless status all, all military status.) Go the page to see for yourself.




The wisqars.cdc data base only spans Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Connecticuit, Georgia, Hawaii, Kansas, Kentucky, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Utah, Vermont, Virginia and Wisconsin. No doubt that the figures are higher for the entire US but how much higher? The CDC doesn't put that out here.

I think that the Brady Campaign is relying upon people not to check their work. Here is the site.

https://wisqars.cdc.gov:8443/nvdrs/nvdrsDisplay.jsp
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Re: gun control

Post by JimZipCode » Sun May 20, 2018 11:45 pm

Gene wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 9:12 pm
Bloomberg is trying the same bullshit with firearms. He and his Oligarch buddies.
Bloomberg?? WTF are we talking about?
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Re: gun control

Post by Gene » Sun May 20, 2018 11:49 pm

Ok, for the sake of curiosity....

Incidents of violence, all, all intents, all relationships, just firearms all types, for 2015, all funded states, all races, all ethnicities, all genders, places of injury, pregnancy status, homeless status, military status.

0 to 19 - 1,156 gun deaths in total

0 to 24 - 3,014 gun deaths in total

0 to 17 - 597 gun deaths in total

The Brady Campaign are crafty - they realize that most of us won't go to the source. So they can quintuple the "gun violence" body count through the simple means of reframing what "child" means. The Noble lie is alive and well, or how did Jon Gruber put it.... "Lack of transparency is a huge political advantage"?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G790p0LcgbI

Kids ages 0 to 14 - 201 gun deaths in total. Of that 95 were homicides, 69 were suicides. 130 of these were from handguns, 16 plus from shotguns, and 26 were from rifles. Usually rifles and handguns have a seven to one ratio of "death" which is why so many of us are worried about banning them.

Kids ages 0 to 14 - struck by - 160 deaths Mean old step Dads need controlled too.


Kids ages 0 to 5 - 46 gun deaths per year. Of these 28 were homicides, 18 were accidents or 'unknown'.

In contrast 305 kids under five drown each year, ( see http://www.momsteam.com/sports/swimming ... -drownings ), 1,600 kids under 15 die in automobile accidents (see http://asirt.org/initiatives/informing- ... statistics )
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Re: gun control

Post by Gene » Mon May 21, 2018 12:01 am

JimZipCode wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 11:45 pm
Gene wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 9:12 pm
Bloomberg is trying the same bullshit with firearms. He and his Oligarch buddies.
Bloomberg?? WTF are we talking about?
Pretty sad when someone doesn't know who is pulling their strings...... I'm amazed that you did not know about the Oligarchs who back this crap...
Billionaire Michael Bloomberg is refocusing his efforts at curbing guns in America, pledging at least $50 million on a new voter network dedicated to passing stronger background-check rules.

The former New York mayor, who even from his current position outside of City Hall still ranks 29th on FORBES' list of Powerful People, has tried in the past to start a national campaign against guns without success. Now, Bloomberg will simplify the structure to his operation, according to The New York Times, bringing what was a collection of smaller groups (Mayors Against Illegal Guns and Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America) under one centralized command called Everytown for Gun Safety.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/abrambrown ... 694d16330a
“I like what I see when I look in the mirror....We’ve probably saved millions of lives, and certainly we’ll save tens of millions of lives going forward,” he says referring to the causes he has supported and funded for the future. “There aren’t many people that have done that. So, you know, when I get to heaven, I’m not sure I’m going to stand for an interview. I’m going right in,” Bloomberg says with a laugh.

So far, Bloomberg has spent huge sums on gun control, anti-smoking activities and environmental concerns, including $100 million for the Sierra Club’s battle against the coal industry. He points out that life expectancy of New Yorkers went up three years while he was mayor. It was a job he liked. “Loved every minute of it. It’s a wonderful job. The challenges are enormous, but you have a great opportunity to make a difference,” he tells Kroft.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/no-wait-at ... bloomberg/

When Microsoft cofounder Bill Gates and his wife Melinda donated $1 million to the Washington Alliance for Gun Responsibility in 2014, pundit Mike Weisser commented that gun control supporters had “landed a game-changing ally.”
Warren Buffett

The Berkshire Hathaway Chairman and CEO sits on the advisory board of Bloomberg’s organization Everytown for Gun Safety.
Paul Allen

In 2014, Microsoft cofounder Paul Allen donated $500,000 to a campaign advocating expanded background checks in Washington state.
Former Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer, who is valued at $23.2 billion, was a major proponent of Initiative 594 in Washington state, the same provision on background checks that Bill Gates and Paul Allen supported. Together Ballmer and his wife Connie donated $580,000 to the campaign.
George Soros also donated $50,000 to the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence in the wake of the Newtown shooting.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/emmagoldbe ... 5ee17d9ea5


You think you're making the world a better place, huh?

Man, they got you fooled.
This space for let

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