What to make of the election?

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Re: What to make of the election?

Post by Grandpa's Spells » Fri Oct 30, 2020 3:25 pm

Fat Cat wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:12 pm
Glenn Greenwald of The Intercept wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 10:45 pm
First, the claim that the material is of suspect authenticity or cannot be verified -- the excuse used on behalf of Biden by Leslie Stahl and Christiane Amanpour, among others -- is blatantly false for numerous reasons. As someone who has reported similar large archives in partnership with numerous media outlets around the world (including the Snowden archive in 2014 and the Intercept’s Brazil Archive over the last year showing corruption by high-level Bolsonaro officials), and who also covered the reporting of similar archives by other outlets (the Panama Papers, the WikiLeaks war logs of 2010 and DNC/Podesta emails of 2016), it is clear to me that the trove of documents from Hunter Biden’s emails has been verified in ways quite similar to those.

...

Second, the oft-repeated claim from news outlets and CIA operatives that the published emails and texts were “Russian disinformation” was, from the start, obviously baseless and reckless. No evidence — literally none — has been presented to suggest involvement by any Russians in the dissemination of these materials, let alone that it was part of some official plot by Moscow. As always, anything is possible — when one does not know for certain what the provenance of materials is, nothing can be ruled out — but in journalism, evidence is required before news outlets can validly start blaming some foreign government for the release of information. And none has ever been presented. Yet the claim that this was "Russian disinformation" was published in countless news outlets, television broadcasts, and the social media accounts of journalists, typically by pointing to the evidence-free claims of ex-CIA officials.
Complete, very detailed article that should disturb anyone voting for Biden or trusting mainstream news: https://greenwald.substack.com/p/articl ... n-censored
Because Greenwald used to be an apparently sane person, I went and read the exchanges that led to his quitting. They are... pretty standard. The editors were also encouraging him on the point that the Biden campaign wasn't responding to questions about the matter, just not the stuff that couldn't be established.

Their response was on point:

GLENN GREENWALD’S DECISION to resign from The Intercept stems from a fundamental disagreement over the role of editors in the production of journalism and the nature of censorship. Glenn demands the absolute right to determine what he will publish. He believes that anyone who disagrees with him is corrupt, and anyone who presumes to edit his words is a censor. Thus, the preposterous charge that The Intercept’s editors and reporters, with the lone, noble exception of Glenn Greenwald, have betrayed our mission to engage in fearless investigative journalism because we have been seduced by the lure of a Joe Biden presidency. A brief glance at the stories The Intercept has published on Biden will suffice to refute those claims.

The narrative Glenn presents about his departure is teeming with distortions and inaccuracies — all of them designed to make him appear as a victim, rather than a grown person throwing a tantrum. It would take too long to point them all out here, but we intend to correct the record in time. For now, it is important to make clear that our goal in editing his work was to ensure that it would be accurate and fair. While he accuses us of political bias, it was he who was attempting to recycle the dubious claims of a political campaign — the Trump campaign — and launder them as journalism.

We have the greatest respect for the journalist Glenn Greenwald used to be, and we remain proud of much of the work we did with him over the past six years. It is Glenn who has strayed from his original journalistic roots, not The Intercept.

The defining feature of The Intercept’s work in recent years has been the investigative journalism that came out of painstaking work by our staffers in Washington, D.C., New York, and across the rest of the country. It is the staff of The Intercept that has been carrying out our investigative mission — a mission that has involved a collaborative editing process.

We have no doubt that Glenn will go on to launch a new media venture where he will face no collaboration with editors — such is the era of Substack and Patreon. In that context, it makes good business sense for Glenn to position himself as the last true guardian of investigative journalism and to smear his longtime colleagues and friends as partisan hacks. We get it. But facts are facts, and The Intercept’s record of fearless, rigorous, independent journalism speaks for itself.
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Re: What to make of the election?

Post by Fat Cat » Fri Oct 30, 2020 5:33 pm

In other words, you cannot respond to the content of his piece.

Other people reading this, note that none of what The Intercept says in response touches on the veracity of what Greenwald wrote. SPELLS, party functionary that he wishes he was, can only parrot the line that Soviets used for such unacceptable deviation from groupthink: the person is no longer sane. This is the psycho-pathological mechanism of dissent from the Left.
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Re: What to make of the election?

Post by nafod » Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:05 pm

Mr. MAGA got the media to carry his BS back in the Birther thing (The View had him on, not just FoxNews 24/7) along with any other of a myriad of lies over the last 4-5 years. He makes up some wild BS, and the media runs around arguing about it and keeping it in the headlines for months, while Trump knows it is bullshit the whole time.

The Hunter stuff reeks of a similar disinformation campaign in a thousand different ways. Late release, released by Rudy, no real news org touches it, the whole dropping off the laptop thing, the Dingo Ate My Documents thing, the discovery that a tranch of Hunter dirt came from "Typhoon Investigations", according to researchers and public documents, written by a fake self-identified Swiss security analyst named "Martin Aspen"...etc., etc., etc.

It all just reeks to high heaven. Maybe it is actually true? But with less than zero credibility, in fact with the sort of credibility that people assume it is bullshit being put out there to influence the election, no one with standards will touch it.

Hey, about 4 months ago Honest Abraham Trump said in 2 weeks the GOP would release their full health care plan. Maybe UPS lost that too.
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Re: What to make of the election?

Post by DrDonkeyLove... » Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:10 pm

Fat Cat wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 5:33 pm
In other words, you cannot respond to the content of his piece.

Other people reading this, note that none of what The Intercept says in response touches on the veracity of what Greenwald wrote. SPELLS, party functionary that he wishes he was, can only parrot the line that Soviets used for such unacceptable deviation from groupthink: the person is no longer sane. This is the psycho-pathological mechanism of dissent from the Left.
Not only did they refuse to publish it, they refused to let him publish it elsewhere.
Perhaps after the election we'll get to see the horrors of his article.

The good news is that courageous free thinkers of a liberal bent like Greenwald, Andrew Sullivan, and Matt Taibbi are emigrating to spaces supportive of free thinking and speech.

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Re: What to make of the election?

Post by nafod » Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:20 pm

In September the WH said it was aiming to have 100 million doses of Coronavirus vaccine ready to go by end of October. That's tomorrow. Anybody get theirs yet?
Don’t believe everything you think.

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Re: What to make of the election?

Post by Fat Cat » Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:21 pm

nafod wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:05 pm
Mr. MAGA got the media to carry his BS back in the Birther thing (The View had him on, not just FoxNews 24/7) along with any other of a myriad of lies over the last 4-5 years. He makes up some wild BS, and the media runs around arguing about it and keeping it in the headlines for months, while Trump knows it is bullshit the whole time.

The Hunter stuff reeks of a similar disinformation campaign in a thousand different ways. Late release, released by Rudy, no real news org touches it, the whole dropping off the laptop thing, the Dingo Ate My Documents thing, the discovery that a tranch of Hunter dirt came from "Typhoon Investigations", according to researchers and public documents, written by a fake self-identified Swiss security analyst named "Martin Aspen"...etc., etc., etc.

It all just reeks to high heaven. Maybe it is actually true? But with less than zero credibility, in fact with the sort of credibility that people assume it is bullshit being put out there to influence the election, no one with standards will touch it.

Hey, about 4 months ago Honest Abraham Trump said in 2 weeks the GOP would release their full health care plan. Maybe UPS lost that too.
As a thought experiment, read your own post and imagine its someone else writing. Perhaps a histrionic woman. Look at the obfuscation, disorganized thinking, emotional appeals, and logical fallacies displayed in this single post.
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Re: What to make of the election?

Post by Herv100 » Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:36 pm

nafod wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:20 pm
In September the WH said it was aiming to have 100 million doses of Coronavirus vaccine ready to go by end of October. That's tomorrow. Anybody get theirs yet?
Why? I’ve had COVID. It’s a pussy virus
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Re: What to make of the election?

Post by nafod » Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:45 pm

Fat Cat wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:21 pm
nafod wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:05 pm
Mr. MAGA got the media to carry his BS back in the Birther thing (The View had him on, not just FoxNews 24/7) along with any other of a myriad of lies over the last 4-5 years. He makes up some wild BS, and the media runs around arguing about it and keeping it in the headlines for months, while Trump knows it is bullshit the whole time.

The Hunter stuff reeks of a similar disinformation campaign in a thousand different ways. Late release, released by Rudy, no real news org touches it, the whole dropping off the laptop thing, the Dingo Ate My Documents thing, the discovery that a tranch of Hunter dirt came from "Typhoon Investigations", according to researchers and public documents, written by a fake self-identified Swiss security analyst named "Martin Aspen"...etc., etc., etc.

It all just reeks to high heaven. Maybe it is actually true? But with less than zero credibility, in fact with the sort of credibility that people assume it is bullshit being put out there to influence the election, no one with standards will touch it.

Hey, about 4 months ago Honest Abraham Trump said in 2 weeks the GOP would release their full health care plan. Maybe UPS lost that too.
As a thought experiment, read your own post and imagine its someone else writing. Perhaps a histrionic woman. Look at the obfuscation, disorganized thinking, emotional appeals, and logical fallacies displayed in this single post.
So you take Trump's word at face value? Ever?
Don’t believe everything you think.

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Re: What to make of the election?

Post by Herv100 » Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:46 pm

Fat Cat wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 5:33 pm
In other words, you cannot respond to the content of his piece.

Other people reading this, note that none of what The Intercept says in response touches on the veracity of what Greenwald wrote. SPELLS, party functionary that he wishes he was, can only parrot the line that Soviets used for such unacceptable deviation from groupthink: the person is no longer sane. This is the psycho-pathological mechanism of dissent from the Left.
Don’t bother with Spells. He’s a liar. He posts things he doesn’t believe.
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Re: What to make of the election?

Post by Fat Cat » Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:48 pm

That's ok, so do I sometimes. I'm here to fight.
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Re: What to make of the election?

Post by Herv100 » Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:49 pm

nafod wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:45 pm
Fat Cat wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:21 pm
nafod wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:05 pm
Mr. MAGA got the media to carry his BS back in the Birther thing (The View had him on, not just FoxNews 24/7) along with any other of a myriad of lies over the last 4-5 years. He makes up some wild BS, and the media runs around arguing about it and keeping it in the headlines for months, while Trump knows it is bullshit the whole time.

The Hunter stuff reeks of a similar disinformation campaign in a thousand different ways. Late release, released by Rudy, no real news org touches it, the whole dropping off the laptop thing, the Dingo Ate My Documents thing, the discovery that a tranch of Hunter dirt came from "Typhoon Investigations", according to researchers and public documents, written by a fake self-identified Swiss security analyst named "Martin Aspen"...etc., etc., etc.

It all just reeks to high heaven. Maybe it is actually true? But with less than zero credibility, in fact with the sort of credibility that people assume it is bullshit being put out there to influence the election, no one with standards will touch it.

Hey, about 4 months ago Honest Abraham Trump said in 2 weeks the GOP would release their full health care plan. Maybe UPS lost that too.
As a thought experiment, read your own post and imagine its someone else writing. Perhaps a histrionic woman. Look at the obfuscation, disorganized thinking, emotional appeals, and logical fallacies displayed in this single post.
So you take Trump's word at face value? Ever?
This post doesn’t make sense.
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Re: What to make of the election?

Post by Grandpa's Spells » Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:15 pm

Fat Cat wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 5:33 pm
In other words, you cannot respond to the content of his piece.
No, his editors are saying Glenn is making assertions without establishing facts. The exchange is here, and they are clearly encouraging him to do an article, but one based on solid ground: https://greenwald.substack.com/p/emails ... rs-showing

Overall I think this piece can work best if it is significantly narrowed down to what you first discussed with Betsy — media criticism about liberal journalists not asking Biden the questions he should be asked more forcefully, and why they are failing to do that.
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Re: What to make of the election?

Post by Fat Cat » Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:19 pm

They are encouraging him to not discuss Joe Biden's pay for play schemes. It's yet another example of how MSM buries stories from the right and holds them to highers standards of corroboration that don't apply to attacks on Trump like your Steele dossier in an effort to censor and shape the dialog.

It's as simple as that.
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Re: What to make of the election?

Post by Grandpa's Spells » Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:54 pm

Fat Cat wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:19 pm
They are encouraging him to not discuss Joe Biden's pay for play schemes.
No, they are saying there needs to be evidence of such, and there appears to be none, just innuendo.
Despite years of reporting by a lot of journalists, American as well as Ukrainian, as well as an exhaustive GOP-led U.S. Senate investigation, no evidence has surfaced of Biden acting corruptly with respect to the replacement of Shokin. (Taibbi’s findings are equivocal, I believe.) The reasonable conclusion, by now, would be that it most likely didn’t happen.

However:
Please note that I nonetheless believe you still have a valid albeit narrower argument about the failure of many journalists to confront the Biden family directly and aggressively with relevant questions about the materials and the legalized corruption of Hunter Biden that they document.
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Re: What to make of the election?

Post by Herv100 » Fri Oct 30, 2020 8:01 pm

In Florida, Dems have a little over 100k edge in early voting and mail in votes, and that number is dropping every hour. D’s said they need a 4-500k lead by Nov3 to win due to projected high Republican turnout on Election Day.

There are 400k R and 200k D “supervoters”(people who have voted in last 4 elections) left to vote. And then millions more to vote on Nov 3, which includes to the majority of R’s, who prefer to vote in person.

TLDR: Biden looks to be fucked in FL
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Re: What to make of the election?

Post by nafod » Fri Oct 30, 2020 8:06 pm

Herv100 wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:49 pm

This post doesn’t make sense.
Simpler statement...everything else Trump says has proven to be bullshit, so smart money is to assume this is too and ignore it until proven otherwise.
Don’t believe everything you think.

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Re: What to make of the election?

Post by Fat Cat » Fri Oct 30, 2020 8:11 pm

Grandpa's Spells wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:54 pm
Fat Cat wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:19 pm
They are encouraging him to not discuss Joe Biden's pay for play schemes.
No, they are saying there needs to be evidence of such, and there appears to be none, just innuendo.
Despite years of reporting by a lot of journalists, American as well as Ukrainian, as well as an exhaustive GOP-led U.S. Senate investigation, no evidence has surfaced of Biden acting corruptly with respect to the replacement of Shokin. (Taibbi’s findings are equivocal, I believe.) The reasonable conclusion, by now, would be that it most likely didn’t happen.

However:
Please note that I nonetheless believe you still have a valid albeit narrower argument about the failure of many journalists to confront the Biden family directly and aggressively with relevant questions about the materials and the legalized corruption of Hunter Biden that they document.
Well, apparently the Senate agrees with me and NOT you. Here is the U.S. Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs and Committee on Finance Majority Staff Report:https://t.co/J35OMTTnCv?amp=1

"The records acquired by the Committees show that Hunter Biden and his family were involved in a vast financial network that connected them to foreign nationals and foreign governments across the globe."
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Re: What to make of the election?

Post by nafod » Fri Oct 30, 2020 8:20 pm

Fat Cat wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 8:11 pm
Grandpa's Spells wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:54 pm
Fat Cat wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:19 pm
They are encouraging him to not discuss Joe Biden's pay for play schemes.
No, they are saying there needs to be evidence of such, and there appears to be none, just innuendo.
Despite years of reporting by a lot of journalists, American as well as Ukrainian, as well as an exhaustive GOP-led U.S. Senate investigation, no evidence has surfaced of Biden acting corruptly with respect to the replacement of Shokin. (Taibbi’s findings are equivocal, I believe.) The reasonable conclusion, by now, would be that it most likely didn’t happen.

However:
Please note that I nonetheless believe you still have a valid albeit narrower argument about the failure of many journalists to confront the Biden family directly and aggressively with relevant questions about the materials and the legalized corruption of Hunter Biden that they document.
Well, apparently the Senate agrees with me and NOT you.
That's just from the Republicans. As opposed to the Senate report on Trump, which was Bi-partisan. You should read it. Very damning.

https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/sit ... olume5.pdf
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Re: What to make of the election?

Post by Grandpa's Spells » Fri Oct 30, 2020 8:40 pm

Fat Cat wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 8:11 pm
Grandpa's Spells wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:54 pm
Fat Cat wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:19 pm
They are encouraging him to not discuss Joe Biden's pay for play schemes.
No, they are saying there needs to be evidence of such, and there appears to be none, just innuendo.
Despite years of reporting by a lot of journalists, American as well as Ukrainian, as well as an exhaustive GOP-led U.S. Senate investigation, no evidence has surfaced of Biden acting corruptly with respect to the replacement of Shokin. (Taibbi’s findings are equivocal, I believe.) The reasonable conclusion, by now, would be that it most likely didn’t happen.

However:
Please note that I nonetheless believe you still have a valid albeit narrower argument about the failure of many journalists to confront the Biden family directly and aggressively with relevant questions about the materials and the legalized corruption of Hunter Biden that they document.
Well, apparently the Senate agrees with me and NOT you. Here is the U.S. Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs and Committee on Finance Majority Staff Report:https://t.co/J35OMTTnCv?amp=1

"The records acquired by the Committees show that Hunter Biden and his family were involved in a vast financial network that connected them to foreign nationals and foreign governments across the globe."
Scanned it. "Hunter and his family" does not appear to include "Joe Biden."
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Re: What to make of the election?

Post by Fat Cat » Fri Oct 30, 2020 8:44 pm

You didn't read the document, yet again. Hit CTRL+F and search on "Joe".
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Re: What to make of the election?

Post by Herv100 » Fri Oct 30, 2020 8:50 pm

Herv100 wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 8:01 pm
In Florida, Dems have a little over 100k edge in early voting and mail in votes, and that number is dropping every hour. D’s said they need a 4-500k lead by Nov3 to win due to projected high Republican turnout on Election Day.

There are 400k R and 200k D “supervoters”(people who have voted in last 4 elections) left to vote. And then millions more to vote on Nov 3, which includes to the majority of R’s, who prefer to vote in person.

TLDR: Biden looks to be fucked in FL
The D lead is now down from 100k to 0 in the time since the quoted post.
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Re: What to make of the election?

Post by Fat Cat » Fri Oct 30, 2020 8:54 pm

¡Hasta la victoria siempre!
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Re: What to make of the election?

Post by Grandpa's Spells » Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:00 pm

You didn't read the document, yet again. Hit CTRL+F and search on "Joe".
Go ahead and cite. They often refer to him as Vice-President. But they do helpfully include a list of key findings on pp 4-6. It's not a long read.

Hunter is not a good dude. He's somewhat better than a Trump Org kid, but still not good. He's somewhere between Tiffany and Eric as far as I can tell.

Rudy this week has accused Joe of pedophilia, accepting cash bribes, money laundering, and disappearing people. Rudy is not well. Perhaps Joe is corrupt but has the great fortune of only being exposed by complete crackpots and known liars, but I have my doubts.
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Re: What to make of the election?

Post by Herv100 » Fri Oct 30, 2020 10:13 pm

Grandpa's Spells wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:00 pm
You didn't read the document, yet again. Hit CTRL+F and search on "Joe".
Go ahead and cite. They often refer to him as Vice-President. But they do helpfully include a list of key findings on pp 4-6. It's not a long read.

Hunter is not a good dude. He's somewhat better than a Trump Org kid, but still not good. He's somewhere between Tiffany and Eric as far as I can tell.

Rudy this week has accused Joe of pedophilia, accepting cash bribes, money laundering, and disappearing people. Rudy is not well. Perhaps Joe is corrupt but has the great fortune of only being exposed by complete crackpots and known liars, but I have my doubts.
Rudy hasn’t accused Joe of pedophila, that was the autistits on the chans analyzing his texts and porn videos put on the web by Lude. Also, you must have missed the news where the DOJ confirmed there is an open money laundering investigation into the Bidens. Also, you haven’t mentioned anything about Bobulinski, which is separate from the laptop. Or that Bevan Cooney, one of his business partners confirmed the emails from the laptop are real.

I don’t think you really know shit about the situation, TBH. You have Trump Derangement Syndrome so there can be nothing positive about Trump and nothing negative about Biden.
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Re: What to make of the election?

Post by Shafpocalypse Now » Fri Oct 30, 2020 10:17 pm

DrDonkeyLove... wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:10 pm
Fat Cat wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 5:33 pm
In other words, you cannot respond to the content of his piece.

Other people reading this, note that none of what The Intercept says in response touches on the veracity of what Greenwald wrote. SPELLS, party functionary that he wishes he was, can only parrot the line that Soviets used for such unacceptable deviation from groupthink: the person is no longer sane. This is the psycho-pathological mechanism of dissent from the Left.
Not only did they refuse to publish it, they refused to let him publish it elsewhere.
Perhaps after the election we'll get to see the horrors of his article.

The good news is that courageous free thinkers of a liberal bent like Greenwald, Andrew Sullivan, and Matt Taibbi are emigrating to spaces supportive of free thinking and speech.
It's published in that substack

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