What to make of the election?

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Re: What to make of the election?

Post by nafod » Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:54 pm

I sometimes try to imagine if we had had twitter and cable TV back in 1776.

This stuff's exhausting.
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Re: What to make of the election?

Post by Alfred_E._Neuman » Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:19 pm

I think the only thing that comes from this is Biden gets eliminated from contention. The inquiry is going to expose the corruption of Hunter getting appointed to a Ukrainian oil company's board days after being drummed from the Navy reserves for doing blow. Then Biden looks even worse for pressuring for the removal of a prosecutor going after his son's company.
Trump will lie with his usual abandon. His base will eat it up. The press will bitch and moan. The inquiry might end in an impeachment recommendation from the house, killed in the Senate. Trump keeps on being a bull in a china shop with teflon fur.
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Re: What to make of the election?

Post by Fat Cat » Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:11 pm

Alfred_E._Neuman wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:19 pm
I think the only thing that comes from this is Biden gets eliminated from contention. The inquiry is going to expose the corruption of Hunter getting appointed to a Ukrainian oil company's board days after being drummed from the Navy reserves for doing blow. Then Biden looks even worse for pressuring for the removal of a prosecutor going after his son's company.
Trump will lie with his usual abandon. His base will eat it up. The press will bitch and moan. The inquiry might end in an impeachment recommendation from the house, killed in the Senate. Trump keeps on being a bull in a china shop with teflon fur.
This is how I see it.
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Re: What to make of the election?

Post by nafod » Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:32 pm

Fat Cat wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:11 pm
Alfred_E._Neuman wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:19 pm
I think the only thing that comes from this is Biden gets eliminated from contention. The inquiry is going to expose the corruption of Hunter getting appointed to a Ukrainian oil company's board days after being drummed from the Navy reserves for doing blow. Then Biden looks even worse for pressuring for the removal of a prosecutor going after his son's company.
Trump will lie with his usual abandon. His base will eat it up. The press will bitch and moan. The inquiry might end in an impeachment recommendation from the house, killed in the Senate. Trump keeps on being a bull in a china shop with teflon fur.
This is how I see it.
He pissed off the wrong guy

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Re: What to make of the election?

Post by Fat Cat » Wed Sep 25, 2019 11:17 pm

You think? That would be something. If it turns out to be true, I would have to say you called it.
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Re: What to make of the election?

Post by Alfred_E._Neuman » Wed Sep 25, 2019 11:43 pm

I've read the same thing in a couple of blogs. I know Bolton's already dumping $$ into campaigns for Republicans who are not friendly to Trump.
If there's such a thing as "Deep State", Bolton is it.
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Re: What to make of the election?

Post by Alfred_E._Neuman » Wed Sep 25, 2019 11:47 pm

On a lighter note, Tulsi made the next debate. My wife and I went to a Town Hall she had here a few weeks ago and both her speech and her answers in the Q&A were pretty much on point with my views. By far my favorite candidate.
Maybe Tulsi will smack Warren down like she did Kamala Harris.
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Re: What to make of the election?

Post by Fat Cat » Wed Sep 25, 2019 11:54 pm

My claim to fame is I used to play capoeira in the park with Tulsi. I've actually kicked her ass several times.
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Re: What to make of the election?

Post by Schlegel » Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:36 am

Fat Cat wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 11:54 pm
My claim to fame is I used to play capoeira in the park with Tulsi. I've actually kicked her ass several times.
I'll state with no shame that as a karateka, I respect the work ethic of anyone who really practices Capoeira. That shit is a workout.
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Re: What to make of the election?

Post by Turdacious » Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:37 pm

"Liberalism is arbitrarily selective in its choice of whose dignity to champion." Adrian Vermeule

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Re: What to make of the election?

Post by Alfred_E._Neuman » Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:47 pm

You could hear the voices =D>
But really, until we see a verbatim transcript and get to hear the whistleblower testimony, I'm thinking this will be a nothing burger. I read the transcript the WH released yesterday and I don't see Trump hanging himself anywhere in there. Enough nefariousness to make the Trump haters salivate at the thought of finally catching him with his dick in his hand, and not near enough to actually bring him down.
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Re: What to make of the election?

Post by nafod » Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:58 pm

Alfred_E._Neuman wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:47 pm
I read the transcript the WH released yesterday and I don't see Trump hanging himself anywhere in there.
Really?

He obviously asked for something from a foreign power specifically to take down an electoral opponent. Total clarity on that. And it is breaking the law to do it, not to mention that getting a foreign power to undermine our elections is wrong.

What he denied he did in 2016, we have in the transcript he provided us proof that he is doing now, now that he is POTUS.

It is not complicated at all.

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Re: What to make of the election?

Post by Alfred_E._Neuman » Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:08 pm

To be clear, I think Trump is as crooked as Lombard Street. I just think the spin is going to be that Trump asked Zelensky to look into corruption in general because Trump is such crusader for fairness and transparency. That's because he didn't specifically say "dig into the Bidens' dirt or kiss your aid goodbuy". But Biden is on camera saying pretty much "make the prosecutor who's going after my son's company disappear or kiss your aid goodbuy".
I think the WH will spin this just enough to avoid going down.
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Re: What to make of the election?

Post by nafod » Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:47 pm

Alfred_E._Neuman wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:08 pm
TI just think the spin is going to be that Trump asked Zelensky to look into corruption in general because Trump is such crusader for fairness and transparency.
Well, they will do what they always do, which is to keep spinning various ways to confuse everyone and fire up the base.

The problem here is it is all so simple. No debate over veracity of witnesses or quality of evidence. It doesn't matter at all whether Biden and his son were on the up-and-up at all, that's a Red Herring.

The fun thing to watch right now is how all of the Trump supporters go deep silent with each new exposure (latest this morning, the WH moved to delete the transcript from readily accessible storage and save it on codeword-protected systems to hide it) until the talking points get disseminated, then they parrot the exact same thing. It's like a hive mind, but Trump is the mind.
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Re: What to make of the election?

Post by Grandpa's Spells » Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:28 pm

Trump's power move would be to incriminate Pence since Pelosi is third in ilne. Whatever low chance the Senate GOP has of chucking Trump, chucking both of them is zero if it makes Pelosi President.
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Re: What to make of the election?

Post by Turdacious » Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:01 pm

nafod wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:58 pm
Alfred_E._Neuman wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:47 pm
I read the transcript the WH released yesterday and I don't see Trump hanging himself anywhere in there.
Really?
Or he's:
1. Talking extemporaneously
2. Making promises he has neither the power nor intention to keep
3. Being just vague enough to have plausible deniability
4. Forgotten it already

And he has a 50 year track record of this.

Besides, the aid that the Ukrainians really want is not getting held back, while the aid they could care far less is the aid that's been delayed (and it's not like the Obama administration was giving them anything they really needed either).
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Re: What to make of the election?

Post by Alfred_E._Neuman » Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:26 pm

Kyle Kulinski is more of a leftist as I am, so ignore the Bernie love at the beginning if you're a redder shade than that, but I think his take on impeachment near the end of the clip is spot on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkzRURcRbkY
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Re: What to make of the election?

Post by Fat Cat » Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:30 pm

Alfred_E._Neuman wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:26 pm
Kyle Kulinski is more of a leftist as I am, so ignore the Bernie love at the beginning if you're a redder shade than that, but I think his take on impeachment near the end of the clip is spot on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkzRURcRbkY
What's the cliffnotes?
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Re: What to make of the election?

Post by Alfred_E._Neuman » Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:18 pm

Fat Cat wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:30 pm

What's the cliffnotes?
Impeachment hearings for the Ukraine call will backfire spectacularly. Slim chance of getting through House, zero chance of 2/3 Senate voting for Impeachment. Doubly so if Pence is drug into this and Pelosi stands a snowball's chance of sniffing the Presidency.
A failed Impeachment attempt neuters the Dems going into 2020 as it looks to Trump's base like he's been vindicated if he remains in office. Not to mention there's enough Biden and Obama corruption wrapped up in this Ukraine deal to make them look like a bunch of monkeys fucking footballs.

If they wanted to have Trump on something air tight, the Emoluments clause would have been a safer bet. But even then, you wouldn't find too many Dem that didn't profit from their office and who were willing to possibly risk getting caught up in that type of witch hunt (my opinion).
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Re: What to make of the election?

Post by Grandpa's Spells » Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:42 pm

Slim chance of getting through House
We are already over the 218 threshold on this.
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Re: What to make of the election?

Post by Fat Cat » Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:42 pm

The reason, aside from TDS, that the Dems are going bananas is because of the malfeasance they have presided over in Ukraine throughout the Obama years. IMHO.
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Re: What to make of the election?

Post by Alfred_E._Neuman » Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:48 pm

Grandpa's Spells wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:42 pm
Slim chance of getting through House
We are already over the 218 threshold on this.
I'm thinking it's one thing to raise your hand at this point when it's the popular thing to do, but a totally different ball game when you have to put your name on the line with an actual vote and have that record being able to be used against you. That may change if public opinion massively swings in favor of impeachment.

That's one of the main reasons we've never had any traction with a single payer healthcare system here. Nobody wants to go on record with either a yes or no vote that can be weaponized against them if public opinion sways a few points above or below 50/50.
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Re: What to make of the election?

Post by nafod » Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:47 pm

The wheels are turning now, and it is going to happen. The wheel is turning, beyond anyone's control to stop it. What Trump did demands it, unfortunately.

The Senate won't impeach him, the repubs are way too worried about getting primary'd from the right.
'm thinking it's one thing to raise your hand at this point when it's the popular thing to do, but a totally different ball game when you have to put your name on the line with an actual vote and have that record being able to be used against you.
Indeed. All of the defenses of Trump that will be offered by Repub Senators...the Dem campaign ads will write themselves.

Let the party begin...
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Re: What to make of the election?

Post by Fat Cat » Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:03 pm

Grandpa's Spells wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:50 pm
Fat Cat wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:47 pm
I don't think you've characterized my position accurately but I am, unlike you folks, interested to find out what actually occurred before jumping to conclusions:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/24/us/p ... cript.html
Transcript isn't remotely sufficient. The Senate just unanimously voted for resolution to release the entire whistleblower complaint. It appears the GOP Senator also wants the full picture (or at least the appearance thereof), which is great.
I'm a bit rushed getting ready for a meeting, so I haven't gone through the whole thing, but I believe this is the complete whistleblower complaint:

https://intelligence.house.gov/uploaded ... nclass.pdf
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Re: What to make of the election?

Post by Fat Cat » Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:03 pm

nafod wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:47 pm
The wheels are turning now, and it is going to happen. The wheel is turning, beyond anyone's control to stop it. What Trump did demands it, unfortunately.

The Senate won't impeach him, the repubs are way too worried about getting primary'd from the right.
'm thinking it's one thing to raise your hand at this point when it's the popular thing to do, but a totally different ball game when you have to put your name on the line with an actual vote and have that record being able to be used against you.
Indeed. All of the defenses of Trump that will be offered by Repub Senators...the Dem campaign ads will write themselves.

Let the party begin...
If you are wrong you are going to have to throw a pizza party for all of us.
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