IGX "...overflowing with foulmouthed ignorance."

IGX "...overflowing with foulmouthed ignorance."
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 Post subject: This time it's different
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:15 pm 
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The disclosures by Lewinsky reinforce what was previously alleged against Clinton while highlighting that he could have been charged with a number of other crimes. The impeachment centered on the question of whether a president could be impeached for perjury. I appeared in Congress with other experts to debate that question and maintained that lying under oath clearly was an impeachable offense. I disagreed with the other professors at the hearing that there is some subject matter exception for lying about sexual relationships. Federal prosecutors regularly charge people for making false statements without any subject matter limits. The last person you want to give such a license to lie is the president, who heads the executive branch that enforces such laws against all citizens.

While the evidence of perjury was overwhelming, and a federal court affirmed that Clinton committed perjury, Democratic House members voted as a bloc and refused to impeach or convict him. Indeed, many of the lawmakers calling for the investigation and impeachment of Trump previously fought to shield Clinton from such accountability. Back then, House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi opposed not only the impeachment but even the investigation of Clinton, insisting that American women viewed his affair with a White House intern to be a private matter and opposed the "uncontrolled power" of independent counsel Ken Starr. Maxine Waters insisted that Clinton was only "guilty of certain indiscretions in his private life." Jerrold Nadler, the incoming House Judiciary Committee chairman, at the time declared that "perjury regarding sex is not a great and dangerous offense against the nation."

Putting aside that perjury is a crime for which other citizens go to jail, the culpability of Clinton was far broader than just his denial. Clinton, much like Trump, was accused of actively trying to influence witnesses and testimony. He arranged for Lewinsky to meet with attorney Vernon Jordan, who was one of his closest friends and political allies. Jordan then arranged for Lewinsky to be represented by his chosen counsel Frank Carter, who drafted a false affidavit denying any affair. That affidavit was notably delayed in being filed as the scandal grew. Lewinsky, who had virtually no work history or relevant background, was offered a job with Revlon, where Jordan was a powerful member of the board of directors.

Lewinsky said, "Frank Carter explained to me if I signed an affidavit denying having had an intimate relationship with the president it might mean I would not have to be deposed in the Paula Jones case." If Carter knew that the affidavit was false, he committed a deeply unethical act. Lewinsky does not say if Carter knew that she had a sexual relationship with Clinton, but she is clear about one other fact. She stated that Clinton encouraged her to lie to investigators. That would be a federal crime and could be viewed as subornation of perjury and witness tampering.
https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house ... ton-crimes

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:23 pm 
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The Clinton/Trump comparison seems extremely dubious, and your quote has a very misleading statement.
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Jerrold Nadler, the incoming House Judiciary Committee chairman, at the time declared that "perjury regarding sex is not a great and dangerous offense against the nation."
This seems like a pretty strong argument. I supported impeachment until I found out what actually happens to perjurers.
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Putting aside that perjury is a crime for which other citizens go to jail
This is misleading, and the truth works against his underlying argument. People convicted of perjury can be given as little as a fine of a few hundred dollars, OR years in prison, depending on the severity of the offense (see above).

As felonies go, perjury is either a really big deal or barely a slap on the wrist depending on what you are lying about. Based on recent news, it appears likely Trump lied in his answers to Mueller. Depending on what he lied about, this may be NBD or a VBD.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 7:35 pm 
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The Clinton/Trump comparison seems extremely dubious, and your quote has a very misleading statement.
Quote:
Jerrold Nadler, the incoming House Judiciary Committee chairman, at the time declared that "perjury regarding sex is not a great and dangerous offense against the nation."
This seems like a pretty strong argument. I supported impeachment until I found out what actually happens to perjurers.
Quote:
Putting aside that perjury is a crime for which other citizens go to jail
This is misleading, and the truth works against his underlying argument. People convicted of perjury can be given as little as a fine of a few hundred dollars, OR years in prison, depending on the severity of the offense (see above).

As felonies go, perjury is either a really big deal or barely a slap on the wrist depending on what you are lying about. Based on recent news, it appears likely Trump lied in his answers to Mueller. Depending on what he lied about, this may be NBD or a VBD.
To me he was actually arguing that the perjury combined with other factors (especially undue influence of witnesses) were what made Clinton's crime more severe than simple lying under oath. We still know so little about what Mueller thinks he has on Trump that it's hard to say anything either way.

In particular, regarding the accusations of sexual offenses-- what Clinton was accused of by Jones and Broaddrick (actual rape) is far more serious than what Trump's accused of (groping and payoffs).

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:57 pm 
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Back then, House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi opposed not only the impeachment but even the investigation of Clinton, insisting that...
She wasn't minority leader then was she? Or maybe it's just awkwardly phrased, and should say "Back then, current House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi opposed..."


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In particular, regarding the accusations of sexual offenses-- what Clinton was accused of by Jones and Broaddrick (actual rape) is far more serious than what Trump's accused of (groping and payoffs).
Yeah. Back then the whole thing seemed so obviously partisan, part of a stack of attack-lies, that it was easy to dismiss all these women out of hand. More recently I've been wishing I had paid more attention to Broaddrick; at least examined the allegations.

Having said all that: the alleged sexual misconduct is very much a side issue when looking at Trump. Yeah, he's a creep: shocking. The stuff Mueller is (or is not?) investigating is a much bigger deal, IMO.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:24 pm 
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In other news, a friend of both Bill and the Orange One is making news...
Quote:
A last-minute settlement has been reached in Florida in a long-running lawsuit involving a politically connected financier accused of sexually abusing dozens of teenage girls.

The deal came Tuesday just before jury selection was to begin, and for now, it means none of the victims of Jeffrey Epstein will be able to testify.

A lawyer for Epstein read an apology from him to attorney Bradley Edwards, who represents some victims. Edwards claimed Epstein tried to damage his reputation by suing him.

The 65-year-old Epstein pleaded guilty in 2008 to state sex charges, served a year in jail and became a registered sex offender. But in a secret deal with federal prosecutors led by now-Labor Secretary Alexander Acosta, Epstein avoided a possible life term, and victims weren’t heard from in court.
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/12/ ... ny-1043176

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:41 pm 
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But in a secret deal with federal prosecutors led by now-Labor Secretary Alexander Acosta, Epstein avoided a possible life term, and victims weren’t heard from in court.
Always the best people.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:10 am 
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But in a secret deal with federal prosecutors led by now-Labor Secretary Alexander Acosta, Epstein avoided a possible life term, and victims weren’t heard from in court.
Always the best people.
Yeap... it's good to have friends, especially influential friends.
Quote:
Bill Clinton's relationship with a billionaire pedophile will be thrust into the spotlight once again in a major book by a bestselling author released just weeks before the presidential election.

The former president will face renewed questions over his ties to Jeffrey Epstein, a registered sex offender who was jailed for 13 months in 2008 for soliciting girls for underage prostitution.

The book, to be published on Monday, the day after Hillary Clinton will face off with Donald Trump in the second presidential debate, will address how Epstein flew Clinton around the world on his private jet to speak about his charitable work.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... erson.html

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:14 am 
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Yeap... it's good to have friends, especially influential friends.
Quote:
Bill Clinton's relationship with a billionaire pedophile will be thrust into the spotlight once again in a major book by a bestselling author released just weeks before the presidential election.

The former president will face renewed questions over his ties to Jeffrey Epstein, a registered sex offender who was jailed for 13 months in 2008 for soliciting girls for underage prostitution.

The book, to be published on Monday, the day after Hillary Clinton will face off with Donald Trump in the second presidential debate, will address how Epstein flew Clinton around the world on his private jet to speak about his charitable work.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... erson.html
Not clear what your point is. Are you alleging a crime or cover-up or something? Was registered sex offender Jeffrey Epstein actually a registered sex offender at the time these flights took place? Is the article using "around the world" as a double-entendre?

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― William Tecumseh Sherman


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:54 am 
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Yeap... it's good to have friends, especially influential friends.
Quote:
Bill Clinton's relationship with a billionaire pedophile will be thrust into the spotlight once again in a major book by a bestselling author released just weeks before the presidential election.

The former president will face renewed questions over his ties to Jeffrey Epstein, a registered sex offender who was jailed for 13 months in 2008 for soliciting girls for underage prostitution.

The book, to be published on Monday, the day after Hillary Clinton will face off with Donald Trump in the second presidential debate, will address how Epstein flew Clinton around the world on his private jet to speak about his charitable work.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... erson.html
Not clear what your point is. Are you alleging a crime or cover-up or something? Was registered sex offender Jeffrey Epstein actually a registered sex offender at the time these flights took place? Is the article using "around the world" as a double-entendre?
Gene is saying that democrats are really bad people but Trump is welcome to grab him by the pussy and subvert democracy every day of the week.

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