The wrong guy

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seeahill
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The wrong guy

Post by seeahill » Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:29 am

The man said, "If I see you again up here, I'll shoot your dogs. Is that clear? Is that clear?

I was driving on the outskirts of my small Montana town. I was taking my dogs up to some public land. BLM, which I'll explain for folks in the east if you want. Anyway, this is public. Not everyone here knows about it, but I've been letting my dogs run free there for over 30 years. So this fuck, whose name is Peter McKenzie, owns land above the BLM section. Which means he has to drive through public land to get to his place. He doesn't like people walking or hunting on this public land.

So I was up there in the snow. Postholing around with my dogs.

This guy pulled in to the entrance to the BLM land. The snow plow had left a pull off. I pulled over. Played with my dogs in the deep snow. The guy stayed at the entrance. I drove out. He motioned me over. You know, how guys talk to one another in trucks pulled side by side.

The man owns the land above where we were. About a mile and a half away. He shouted at me from the window of his truck. He said, "this is my driveway." Which it is, but it's public land. He said, "if I see you up here again, I will shoot your dogs. Is that clear?" As I got out of my truck to discuss this further with him but he drove away. He leaned out of his window and shouted, "Is that clear."

It's clear. He's fucking with the wrong guy.
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Re: The wrong guy

Post by Grandpa's Spells » Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:19 pm

What's the plan?

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Re: The wrong guy

Post by Shapecharge » Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:48 pm

For once Troy is saying something that's not irritating me.

We need to talk through this Tim. Just off the cuff the reasonably smart thing to do would be to immediately call the sheriff and tell him exactly what happened. Perhaps insist if he doesn't indicate he'll do it, that the sheriff contact said property owner and explain how he's in the wrong and will be arrested and prosecuted if he does anything violent towards you or your animals and his initial threat of violence/intimidation is an actionable offense as well. Just a suggestion.

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Re: The wrong guy

Post by Turdacious » Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:35 pm

You might want to find out who actually what jurisdiction there-- rangers or the sheriff. That can be a complicated issue. In the area where I grew up, there was a lot of pot being grown on BLM land (before Oregon because the wild west for weed)-- the pot was a minor issue for the BLM and local law enforcement, but the growers were stealing water that local farmers had the rights to, which was a major issue for the sheriff. The weird jurisdictional issues made the water theft hard to stop.

If I were you I'd send him copies of your books on a regular basis. They can be found at thrift stores-- these stores will probably pay you to take the books away. This may be a little harsh though.
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Re: The wrong guy

Post by Shapecharge » Mon Apr 01, 2019 8:06 pm

Wait just one fuckin' second! The Turdish one has the solution and it's right there and I didn't see it. Of course it's all about the books. Simply wrap the dogs in a sort of "doggie-vest" made of your books. Not even supersonic, armor-piercing ammunition can penetrate this overwrought, sleep-inducing, and completely unnecessary attempts at literature. FINALLY, a real use for Tim's works.

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Re: The wrong guy

Post by seeahill » Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:11 pm

This happened about a week ago. I did call the Sheriff and lodge a complaint. They asked me if I wanted to talk to a deputy but I said that I just wanted it on file.

Then, the more I thought about it, the angrier I got.

Turd, this is BLM land uncluttered by leases of any sort. I've been walking my dogs up there for 30 years.

I did talk to the Game Warden, a guy I know and have seen patrolling the area. He told me that his hands were tied. He can do something about landowners harassing hunters, but I wasn't hunting. He suggested I go back to the Sheriff. We discussed the fact that, while my dogs run free, they are often at my side or a few yards away. "If he shoots at my dogs," I said, "he's essentially shooting at me."

So he suggested I go in personally to talk to the sheriff about this. He said,"they take it a lot more seriously if you do it in person."

Now, I have a good relationship with the Sheriff and deputies. I've been on Search and Rescue for almost 30 years. We coordinate with the Sheriff. I can't keep up with the young guys anymore, but I'm still an "asset." When someone goes missing, I come in and help work out the search plan. We look at the PLS (place last seen), and figure who the person or people are. Elk hunters? We get out the maps and figure where the elk would likely be. We assign fixed-wing aircraft, snowmobilers, horsemen and ground pounders. So I've worked with these guys for years. Even had a beer with some of them.

Better yet, one of my best friends is good friends with the Sheriff himself. Sheriff's on vacation with his family and we'll talk with him next week.

So I'm following the Shape plan.
Shapecharge wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:48 pm
We need to talk through this Tim. Just off the cuff the reasonably smart thing to do would be to immediately call the sheriff and tell him exactly what happened. Perhaps insist if he doesn't indicate he'll do it, that the sheriff contact said property owner and explain how he's in the wrong and will be arrested and prosecuted if he does anything violent towards you or your animals and his initial threat of violence/intimidation is an actionable offense as well. Just a suggestion.
Here are ideas some friends and I came up with and rapidly discarded. Go up there armed (I'm a hunter. I can shoot.) But I didn't want to take it there.

Friends said they'd back me. We'd have a dozen armed men standing just on the BLM side of his gate. Sounds fun but I don't want to go there either.

Many suggested a community dog walk. I thought it was a good idea at first. But then I thought that if the dogs ran free, some might get onto his property. He still can't legally shoot them, but ranchers around here do that all the time with no repercussions I've ever heard about. So no, nobody has to put their dog in harm's way because I'm pissed off.

The final thing I'm doing is getting the guy's name out there. He's done stuff like this before and is not well liked in the community. I want to make him a pariah. A little social media. A lot of talking around this little town of 7,000. For instance, I told my vet the story. He said, "hmm, the guy seemed OK to me." I said, "he said he was going to shoot that dog you've worked with for 10 years." The vet thought for a minute and said, "then fuck him."

This may also have an effect. A banker friend of mine said, "he's sort of a suck ass. He'd never have done that if he knew who you were." The guy married into money and bought the ranch and wants to be accepted in town. I'll make sure that doesn't happen.
Last edited by seeahill on Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The wrong guy

Post by Turdacious » Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:16 pm

Shapecharge wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 8:06 pm
Wait just one fuckin' second! The Turdish one has the solution and it's right there and I didn't see it. Of course it's all about the books. Simply wrap the dogs in a sort of "doggie-vest" made of your books. Not even supersonic, armor-piercing ammunition can penetrate this overwrought, sleep-inducing, and completely unnecessary attempts at literature. FINALLY, a real use for Tim's works.
Jesus Shape. It's bad enough these dogs have to live with our Timmah. They'd probably beg for the sweet release of the neighbor's bullet if they were subjected to this.
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Re: The wrong guy

Post by seeahill » Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:23 pm

Now, now boys. Stop using humor to put the brakes on my Rant 'O Revenge.
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Re: The wrong guy

Post by nafod » Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:44 am

I think you should head up to his place with a six pack of beer and offer him one, while asking him why is he being such a dick.
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Re: The wrong guy

Post by Sangoma » Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:17 am

Wear a GoPro camera next time you're walk your dogs. Or at least a visible mobile phone. Filming either stops bullies or makes them do something stupid.

Hard situation though. The best thing would be try have a reasonable conversation, but if this is not possible it's tough. Aggression does work, and for most of us escalation is not a desirable development. Except, I would probably escalate the legal path like crazy: lodging as many complaints with as many bureaucratic outlets as possible: police, the whatever department is looking after public land, animal protection (he did threaten to kill your dogs) etc., etc. On the other hand, aggravating a small town against yourself is way worse than pissing off a big city - nowhere to hide in a small place. Pretty stupid if you want to get accepted.
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Re: The wrong guy

Post by Thud » Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:28 am

Damn, the first post sounded like a great pilot episode for a new mini-series. But this went from High Plains Drifter to a chick flick awfully fast. We can scratch the Ennio Morricone soundtrack right now.

Timmy, the "wrong guy" is gonna mete out justice via community dog walks or sullying the gunslinger's reputation at the local Starbucks?

Jesus fuck me Christ, what have we become...
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Re: The wrong guy

Post by syaigh » Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:04 pm

Meh, he's a type of guy and he can't be reasoned with. Get a concealed carry and be prepared to shoot first.

https://www.greatfallstribune.com/story ... /84542198/

https://www.montereyherald.com/2012/04/ ... le-murder/
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Re: The wrong guy

Post by seeahill » Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:30 pm

Guns sound well and good but that's the way things escalate. I'm will, however, continue going up there with my dogs. I refuse to be bullied off of public land.

Talked with the sheriff today.

He asked me to fill out a statement tomorrow. He said, "I'm familiar with Mr. McKenzie's shenanigans up there." Said, "we don't tolerate those kinds of threats in Park County."

He (or one of his deputies) will pay a visit to Mr. McKenzie in the next day or two and explain things to him.

The BLM section is close to town. There's cell service. I'll think I'll take one of my red hunting vests and emblazon it: "I'm calling 911." I think that'll work better than deet on mosquitos.
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Re: The wrong guy

Post by syaigh » Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:07 am

Well, in all seriousness, be careful. Rich and delusional are two adjectives that are very bad together.
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Re: The wrong guy

Post by JimZipCode » Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:37 pm

On the bright side, if he shoots you along with the dogs, he'll probably be punished for it.
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Re: The wrong guy

Post by seeahill » Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:13 am

JimZipCode wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:37 pm
On the bright side, if he shoots you along with the dogs, he'll probably be punished for it.
Yep. Or anybody else. When I filed my statement with the sheriffs this morning, they said they'd be calling on the guy later today. I got the sense that my statement was just one of many and that they would lower the boom on the next one. The guy has never shot anyone, or any dog, I know about. Never gotten physical with anyone. In fact, when I started to get out of my truck to discuss matters further with him during the incident he drove off.

See, the guy bought 30,000 acres right next to 1000 acres of BLM. It just frustrates the hell out of him that ordinary people can go out there and walk around on public land right next to him. As if they were rich, too.
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Re: The wrong guy

Post by Turdacious » Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:27 am

seeahill wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:30 pm
I'll think I'll take one of my red hunting vests and emblazon it: "I'm calling 911." I think that'll work better than deet on mosquitos.
I think you should wear it all the time, because nothing screams alpha male more than a hunting vest emblazoned 'I'm calling 911' except maybe a 'U Wisconsin Swim Team' t shirt. I especially recommend you wear the vest on dates.

Correction-- give it to your date before the date begins.
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Re: The wrong guy

Post by seeahill » Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:59 pm

Thanks for your suggestions, Turd. I'm happy to see that, as always, sophistication eludes you.
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Re: The wrong guy

Post by seeahill » Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:40 am

Ah,turns out that because it was on federal land, I can charge the guy with aggravated assault. I don't think it meets the definition (since he did not brandish a weapon). But, the very complaint means that that record is available to all law enforcement agencies.
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Re: The wrong guy

Post by Gene » Sun Apr 07, 2019 4:59 pm

seeahill wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:11 pm
A banker friend of mine said, "he's sort of a suck ass. He'd never have done that if he knew who you were." The guy married into money and bought the ranch and wants to be accepted in town. I'll make sure that doesn't happen.
Don't make him an outcast. You want him to fear the risk of becoming an outcast. You want him to consider kissing your ass. You don't want that, just to be left alone to wander the BLM tract in peace and quiet.

If you have him ostracized then he will either move on or entrench himself into his 'compound'. If he moves on, fine. If he gets entrenched someone is going to get hurt. Why even help to make that happen?

He has a vulnerability. Isn't a bad one. Most people want to be at least tolerated. I bet that this guy has had trespassers. They probably disturbed his peace. Instead of being reasonable he's lashing out at every one. Foolish anywhere.
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Re: The wrong guy

Post by Turdacious » Sun Apr 07, 2019 5:03 pm

seeahill wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:40 am
Ah,turns out that because it was on federal land, I can charge the guy with aggravated assault. I don't think it meets the definition (since he did not brandish a weapon). But, the very complaint means that that record is available to all law enforcement agencies.
That assumes a lot about the efficiency of government databases.
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Re: The wrong guy

Post by Gene » Sun Apr 07, 2019 5:16 pm

seeahill wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:40 am
Ah,turns out that because it was on federal land, I can charge the guy with aggravated assault. I don't think it meets the definition (since he did not brandish a weapon). But, the very complaint means that that record is available to all law enforcement agencies.
I think that a low key approach is better as a first movement. You can nail his ass to the floorboards later on.

Your biggest asset is your ability to frame things and to communicate. He's already proven that he's weak, prone to threats. Ain't no guns in prison for him to use. Those bad boys will degrade him, soil him and eventually destroy him.

You got the best cards, Tim. Play them so that you can look back on this having solved it in a low key and intellectual way. At least that's how I see it.
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Re: The wrong guy

Post by Shapecharge » Mon Apr 08, 2019 1:53 pm

Did you really mean to say 30,000 acres? That's fucking nearly 47 square miles of land. Holy shit, what does something like that cost?

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Re: The wrong guy

Post by JimZipCode » Mon Apr 08, 2019 6:00 pm

Shapecharge wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 1:53 pm
Did you really mean to say 30,000 acres? That's fucking nearly 47 square miles of land. Holy shit, what does something like that cost?
It's only Montana.
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Re: The wrong guy

Post by Turdacious » Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:25 am

Guys who live near public land and don't want to be messed with aren't the most rational sorts.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_Ridge
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Kaczynski
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundy_standoff
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