Mass Shooting in El Paso

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Mass Shooting in El Paso

Post by Bram » Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:20 pm

As this board is filled with racist comments, when you hear about a mass shooting committed in the name of racism, how do you feel about it?

I feel shitty, and I'm not here EVER fanning the flames of it. I feel shitty because I look the other way, so I can have less stress in my life.
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Re: Mass Shooting in El Paso

Post by Fat Cat » Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:15 am

What did he say? Personally I don't seriously equate the two. There were 57 shootings in Chicago this weekend, but they were all black, and no one cares so...where's the real racism?
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Re: Mass Shooting in El Paso

Post by Fat Cat » Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:24 am

Here's a pretty interesting page. It shows the concentration of gun violence in about 25 or so urban areas, outside of which, the US enjoys levels of gun violence on par with countries like the Netherlands. Just two percent of American counties account for 51 percent of all firearm homicides. The primary difference is that we manage that with 300+ million firearms.

https://crimeresearch.org/2017/04/numbe ... -1-murder/
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Re: Mass Shooting in El Paso

Post by Turdacious » Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:20 am

A manifesto posted online shortly before Saturday’s massacre at a Walmart in El Paso that the suspected shooter may have written blamed immigrants for hastening the environmental destruction of the United States and proposed genocide as a pathway to ecological sustainability.

Filled with white nationalist diatribes against “race-mixing” and the “Hispanic invasion of Texas,” the manifesto highlights far-right extremists’ budding revival of eco-fascism.

Titled “The Inconvenient Truth,” an allusion to Al Gore’s landmark climate change documentary, the ranting four-page document appeared on the extremist forum 8chan shortly before the shooting. Authorities have yet to confirm whether Patrick Crusius, the 21-year-old Dallas-area white man arrested in connection with the shooting that left at least 22 dead, is the author.

“The environment is getting worse by the year,” the manifesto reads. “Most of y’all are just too stubborn to change your lifestyle. So the next logical step is to decrease the number of people in America using resources. If we can get rid of enough people, then our way of life can become more sustainable.”
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/el-paso- ... a3411f60e6
Interesting that both sides tend to focus on only one side of this nutjob's manifesto.
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Re: Mass Shooting in El Paso

Post by Bram » Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:33 am

Turdacious wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:20 am

Filled with white nationalist diatribes against “race-mixing” and the “Hispanic invasion of Texas,” the manifesto highlights far-right extremists’ budding revival of eco-fascism.

“The environment is getting worse by the year,” the manifesto reads. “Most of y’all are just too stubborn to change your lifestyle. So the next logical step is to decrease the number of people in America using resources. If we can get rid of enough people, then our way of life can become more sustainable.”

-----

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/el-paso- ... a3411f60e6
Interesting that both sides tend to focus on only one side of this nutjob's manifesto.
If you want to look at it from a purely global warming side, killing shit tons of people (and no one can pull it off with an AR-15) while keeping the same environmentally destructive path is only gonna delay the inevitable. We've had more mass shootings in 2019 than days in the year, but the global birth rate is 1.06% a year:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birth_rate

I'm gonna go with hate followed to it's natural end is what got this guy incensed enough to act. Hate at different races, hatred about the environment...hate in any form. Think about Grandma making apple pies on one end of the spectrum (love) and opening fire on randoms at the other.

That said, saying a bunch of racist shit sure as hell is not on the love end...and I'd rather be eating pies than taking bullets.
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Re: Mass Shooting in El Paso

Post by Bram » Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:56 am

Fat Cat wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:15 am
What did he say? Personally I don't seriously equate the two.
"Filled with white nationalist diatribes against “race-mixing” and the “Hispanic invasion of Texas,” the manifesto highlights far-right extremists’ budding revival of eco-fascism."
Fat Cat wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:15 am

There were 57 shootings in Chicago this weekend, but they were all black, and no one cares so...where's the real racism?
You say no one cares. I read a few articles and fathers and mothers are heartbroken burying one or more of their children. I'm happy to talk on cultural things, because evidently it is a culture where you shoot other people your age over stuff.

But you're conflating issues. Gun violence over territorial bullshit is one thing, mass murder spurred by hatred is another.

My question:

"As this board is filled with racist comments, when you hear about a mass shooting committed in the name of racism, how do you feel about it?"
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Re: Mass Shooting in El Paso

Post by Bram » Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:00 am

Fat Cat wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:24 am
Here's a pretty interesting page. It shows the concentration of gun violence in about 25 or so urban areas, outside of which, the US enjoys levels of gun violence on par with countries like the Netherlands. Just two percent of American counties account for 51 percent of all firearm homicides. The primary difference is that we manage that with 300+ million firearms.

https://crimeresearch.org/2017/04/numbe ... -1-murder/
Well, that means a solution with narrow application (something that works in very few counties) could be very successful.

It's a good link, but I'm not talking gun violence in total, specifically saying hateful shit and what the outcomes are.
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Re: Mass Shooting in El Paso

Post by SubClaw » Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:13 am

I couldn't give two shits about anyone's skin color. To a certain extent, I also don't care about anyone's ethnic origins (unless said origins come with a complete array of customs such as forcing women to wear a burkha or condone genitalia mutilation or forbidding me to drink alcohol).

If you migrate from any country, do it legally. Period. That shouldn't be even debatable.

If you are a guest on another country, work hard, be polite and adopt the local customs. Period. That shouldn't be even debatable either.

You are more than welcome to bring your music, your literature and your food. Anything else (religion, social customs, political views...) should remain in the country you are fleeing from.

Not only because those exact things were the root cause of your migration, but because it's not polite being invited to participate in a football game but you insist in turning it into a soccer match.

This is NOT being racist because, like I said, I don't give a fuck about your skin tone.

If a bunch of perfectly white dudes fled from New Orleans post-Katrina and ended up in Bangor and, instead of being grateful, they spent all the fucking time complaining about the weather, the people, the shitty way they do things in Maine and trying to force creole cuisine down everyone's neck, I'd still want them deported. Or worse.

Once again, if you are a guest, act like one. Period.

Do NOT try to transform your host country into the enormous shit you fled from.
Last edited by SubClaw on Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Mass Shooting in El Paso

Post by Grandpa's Spells » Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:54 pm

SubClaw wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:13 am
Once again, if you are a guest, act like one. Period.
Which people exactly are you referring to as guests?
One of the downsides of the Internet is that it allows like-minded people to form communities, and sometimes those communities are stupid.

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Re: Mass Shooting in El Paso

Post by Turdacious » Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:11 pm

Bram wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:33 am
If you want to look at it from a purely global warming side, killing shit tons of people (and no one can pull it off with an AR-15) while keeping the same environmentally destructive path is only gonna delay the inevitable.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon%E2% ... lich_wager
The interesting thing is that the business professor (Simon) was pro humanity and a proponent of increasing (legal) immigration while the Ehrlich, the darling of the left, was and is a monster who believes government should have both the right and responsibility to tell people how many babies they can have and which ones should be allowed to survive in the name of mother Gaia.
Last edited by Turdacious on Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mass Shooting in El Paso

Post by SubClaw » Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:11 pm

Grandpa's Spells wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:54 pm
SubClaw wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:13 am
Once again, if you are a guest, act like one. Period.
Which people exactly are you referring to as guests?
Anyone who migrates from one place to another.

From a syrian refugee now living in Europe, to the guy who comes from a small town in rural Texas now living in NYC.

I spent fifteen years living in six different countries and I always tried to be a polite guest.

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Re: Mass Shooting in El Paso

Post by Grandpa's Spells » Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:37 pm

It strikes me that a lot of the invective and attacks are being directed at US citizens. Citizens, by definition, are not guests. Telling brown congressmen born in the US to go back where they came from, when they're advocating basically Scandinavian polices, is pretty obviously racist, and has little to do with immigrants not assimilating.
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Re: Mass Shooting in El Paso

Post by Shafpocalypse Now » Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:42 pm

There is a piece about some of these new shooters being nihilist trolls, and looking for accolades on the assorted chan forums. The evidence is the contradictory manifestos, written to inflame the media and the progressive about guns, and the quick surrenders to police

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Re: Mass Shooting in El Paso

Post by Turdacious » Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:50 pm

Bram,
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Re: Mass Shooting in El Paso

Post by Grandpa's Spells » Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:01 pm

Shafpocalypse Now wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:42 pm
There is a piece about some of these new shooters being nihilist trolls, and looking for accolades on the assorted chan forums. The evidence is the contradictory manifestos, written to inflame the media and the progressive about guns, and the quick surrenders to police
Yeah where was that piece published?
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Re: Mass Shooting in El Paso

Post by Kazuya Mishima » Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:59 pm

Literally Hitler.

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Re: Mass Shooting in El Paso

Post by johno » Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:41 pm

Gee, Bram. If I had known that racist stuff made you feel so virtuous, I would have gone full Kaz for you.
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Are full of passionate intensity.

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Re: Mass Shooting in El Paso

Post by Bram » Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:25 am

johno wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:41 pm
Gee, Bram. If I had known that racist stuff made you feel so virtuous, I would have gone full Kaz for you.
Johno, I think you're a good guy/cool person. We've always been civil if not helpful or friendly to each other here. So I'm just gonna say hello fellow Irongarmer.

The mass shooting made me super fucking sad. My belief in the world is that we should all be striving towards good or goodness.

Saying hateful things is not on the side of good. I mostly just ignore it, I'm a pretty terrible arguer and I usually look at these things as an argument, then do a terrible job talking about them.

Seeing someone grab a gun and open fire on kids and adults and senior because they've been exposed to so much hatred sucks.

I enjoy this world and don't want to see it destroyed.
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Re: Mass Shooting in El Paso

Post by Bram » Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:28 am

Will respond in a bit to subclaw and Turd....just in a hurry
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Re: Mass Shooting in El Paso

Post by johno » Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:48 am

Bram wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:25 am
johno wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:41 pm
Gee, Bram. If I had known that racist stuff made you feel so virtuous, I would have gone full Kaz for you.
Johno, I think you're a good guy/cool person. We've always been civil if not helpful or friendly to each other here. So I'm just gonna say hello fellow Irongarmer.
...
I enjoy this world and don't want to see it destroyed.
THIS SHIT WILL NOT STAND, MAN!
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

W.B. Yeats

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Re: Mass Shooting in El Paso

Post by Bram » Thu Aug 08, 2019 6:37 am

Well, Subclaw I'm cool with your beliefs, not saying I agree with everything (or disagree) or thought about them super deeply, but they seem fairly reasonable, so right fucking on.

I have been to Bangor, nice place. Visited the University, ate lobster, went to a lake, etc.
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Re: Mass Shooting in El Paso

Post by Bram » Thu Aug 08, 2019 6:57 am

Turdacious wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:11 pm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon%E2% ... lich_wager
The interesting thing is that the business professor (Simon) was pro humanity and a proponent of increasing (legal) immigration while the Ehrlich, the darling of the left, was and is a monster who believes government should have both the right and responsibility to tell people how many babies they can have and which ones should be allowed to survive in the name of mother Gaia.
I listened to a podcast last week on Freakonomics called Duopoly about how the left and right (Democratic and Republican machines) are basically one big circle jerk existing to sustain themselves, pander to lobbyists (which sustains themselves), and prevent anyone non-affiliated from getting a seat at the table. By pissing everyone off and getting us all to point fingers at each other the whole thing keeps on spinning. I bring this up because of your "darling of the left" remark.

And reading Ehrlich's wikipedia page makes him sound like a guy who for 50 years has been trying to revise history (including what he himself claimed) so he can be right.
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Re: Mass Shooting in El Paso

Post by Bram » Thu Aug 08, 2019 6:59 am

johno wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:48 am

THIS SHIT WILL NOT STAND, MAN!
Cheers! :drinkers:
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Re: Mass Shooting in El Paso

Post by Turdacious » Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:46 pm

Bram wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 6:57 am
Turdacious wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:11 pm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon%E2% ... lich_wager
The interesting thing is that the business professor (Simon) was pro humanity and a proponent of increasing (legal) immigration while the Ehrlich, the darling of the left, was and is a monster who believes government should have both the right and responsibility to tell people how many babies they can have and which ones should be allowed to survive in the name of mother Gaia.
I listened to a podcast last week on Freakonomics called Duopoly about how the left and right (Democratic and Republican machines) are basically one big circle jerk existing to sustain themselves, pander to lobbyists (which sustains themselves), and prevent anyone non-affiliated from getting a seat at the table. By pissing everyone off and getting us all to point fingers at each other the whole thing keeps on spinning. I bring this up because of your "darling of the left" remark.

And reading Ehrlich's wikipedia page makes him sound like a guy who for 50 years has been trying to revise history (including what he himself claimed) so he can be right.
Are the Freakonomics guys really different?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legalized ... ime_effect
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Re: Mass Shooting in El Paso

Post by Yes I Have Balls » Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:31 pm

SubClaw wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:13 am
You are more than welcome to bring your music, your literature and your food. Anything else (religion, social customs, political views...) should remain in the country you are fleeing from.
Awesome! So, when do we send the fucking Jews back to wherever the fuck they came from. Amirite??

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