Wu Flu

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Turdacious
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Re: Wu Flu

Post by Turdacious » Thu May 21, 2020 7:40 pm

nafod wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 2:50 pm
Turdacious wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 12:50 am
To me, the better question is not the pros and cons of single payer (there are a lot of pros), but the difficulty of implementing single payer here.
I've always thought figuring out how to untether health care from your job makes sense. Having it the way it is creates a lot of friction in moving labor to where it could be used.
definitely. Unfortunately hhs is an absolute mess, I have no confidence in their ability to manage that.
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Fat Cat
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Re: Wu Flu

Post by Fat Cat » Thu May 21, 2020 7:46 pm

Or perhaps you don't understand?

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Luke
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Re: Wu Flu

Post by Luke » Thu May 21, 2020 11:44 pm

Fat Cat wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 9:33 pm
Luke wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 5:27 am
Shafpocalypse Now wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 3:26 pm
We need to take the opportunity to fuck health insurance companies over right now.

They are parasites and leeches, and I can think of few industries that need to die a rapid death dragging down their scumbag executives with them more than them.
I pay $119 Australian Dollarydoos to my fund each month. I claim once or twice a year, either for dental or physio or both (maybe 1 of each in 2019 if I recall) My last bill came to $265 of which they gave me an $85 refund. It's the biggest scam going.
Wait just a goddamn minute...so both Luke and Aussie Luke are bush kangaroos?
Yep! Coincidence! On separate coasts.

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Re: Wu Flu

Post by Fat Cat » Fri May 22, 2020 12:48 am

So how did Aussie Luke choose the name Aussie Luke if he was trying to distinguish himself from the Aussie, Luke?
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Re: Wu Flu

Post by nafod » Fri May 22, 2020 2:42 pm

Turdacious wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 7:40 pm
nafod wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 2:50 pm
Turdacious wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 12:50 am
To me, the better question is not the pros and cons of single payer (there are a lot of pros), but the difficulty of implementing single payer here.
I've always thought figuring out how to untether health care from your job makes sense. Having it the way it is creates a lot of friction in moving labor to where it could be used.
definitely. Unfortunately hhs is an absolute mess, I have no confidence in their ability to manage that.
So tell me where I am wrong here on the big moving parts. I understand it is all about the nuance.

Businesses are incentived/required to provide health care. They get some sort of tax break in return. So some dude who just wants to build race cars has to get into the health insurance providing business.

We could get rid of the businesses having to provide this, and provide some sort of incentive to the people directly to get health care (tax break, ala mortgage break), taking the health care business out of your employer's hands and putting it closer to yours.

Doesn't mean centralized single payer insurance.
Don’t believe everything you think.

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Re: Wu Flu

Post by DrDonkeyLove... » Fri May 22, 2020 3:10 pm

nafod wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 2:42 pm
Turdacious wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 7:40 pm
nafod wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 2:50 pm
Turdacious wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 12:50 am
To me, the better question is not the pros and cons of single payer (there are a lot of pros), but the difficulty of implementing single payer here.
I've always thought figuring out how to untether health care from your job makes sense. Having it the way it is creates a lot of friction in moving labor to where it could be used.
definitely. Unfortunately hhs is an absolute mess, I have no confidence in their ability to manage that.
So tell me where I am wrong here on the big moving parts. I understand it is all about the nuance.

Businesses are incentived/required to provide health care. They get some sort of tax break in return. So some dude who just wants to build race cars has to get into the health insurance providing business.

We could get rid of the businesses having to provide this, and provide some sort of incentive to the people directly to get health care (tax break, ala mortgage break), taking the health care business out of your employer's hands and putting it closer to yours.

Doesn't mean centralized single payer insurance.
Keeping competition in the system is essential.

I was financially compelled into Medicare last year. I have to pay for part of it but it's about 1/8 of what I was paying for my health insurance previously.

So far, I've been part of two "Medicare Advantage" programs with major insurance companies. The insurance company rakes in some gov't money for playing a role in managing my Medicare. Because there is competition, each insurance company offers a variety of incentives to sign on with them. My out of pocket costs for these added benefits is $0/month. Should my health situation change, I may have to change companies and there could be costs associated with that.

I lack the knowledge to redesign our insurance system but I'm living proof that private company competition within a government system works out well for the consumer.

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Re: Wu Flu

Post by Turdacious » Fri May 22, 2020 5:15 pm

nafod wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 2:42 pm
Turdacious wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 7:40 pm
nafod wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 2:50 pm
Turdacious wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 12:50 am
To me, the better question is not the pros and cons of single payer (there are a lot of pros), but the difficulty of implementing single payer here.
I've always thought figuring out how to untether health care from your job makes sense. Having it the way it is creates a lot of friction in moving labor to where it could be used.
definitely. Unfortunately hhs is an absolute mess, I have no confidence in their ability to manage that.
So tell me where I am wrong here on the big moving parts. I understand it is all about the nuance.

Businesses are incentived/required to provide health care. They get some sort of tax break in return. So some dude who just wants to build race cars has to get into the health insurance providing business.

We could get rid of the businesses having to provide this, and provide some sort of incentive to the people directly to get health care (tax break, ala mortgage break), taking the health care business out of your employer's hands and putting it closer to yours.

Doesn't mean centralized single payer insurance.
There are a few things you have to decide first in a scheme like this:
1. Is it subsidized and how (it's usually done on a progressive scale, but where is the cutoff and why)?
2. Is it mandatory and what does that mean (i.e. if you don't have insurance and develop an expensive medical condition, who pays for your care?)?
3. What equity rules do you have (differences in treatment options, wait times, accomodations, etc...-- can wealthier people pay more and get more, or just pay more for the same)?
4. Is it cradle to grave or do we leave Medicare in as a legacy system (keep in mind that seniors are generally the most expensive insurees)?
5. What role do states play and what role does the federal government play?
6. How do you determine subsidies (annually or on a rolling basis, especially as people's incomes can fluctuate like they are right now)?

Other point-- it's not clear that businesses would be worse off if health insurance was untethered from employment. There is a tax break, but there are also pretty onerous compliance requirements. It would definitely change both the business and employment landscapes.

Countries with systems like you're suggesting (like Switzerland) tend to have powerful health care bureaucracies. Most of the reason has to do with cost control (ex. drug prices and accepted uses are generally centrally negotiated and determined) because the government has little ability to shift costs if costs get too high-- they get the budget they get. Our government health care programs haven't developed that ability-- they will underpay and allow hospitals and insurance companies to make up the losses elsewhere, or change the rules midstream, or hammer hospitals with compliance fines a decade after a problem occurred, etc...
"Liberalism is arbitrarily selective in its choice of whose dignity to champion." Adrian Vermeule

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Re: Wu Flu

Post by Turdacious » Mon May 25, 2020 11:40 pm


This video covers almost every Staten Island stereotype in 22 seconds.
"Liberalism is arbitrarily selective in its choice of whose dignity to champion." Adrian Vermeule

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