My State Has Gone Full Fucking Clownship

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Re: My State Has Gone Full Fucking Clownship

Post by JimZipCode » Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:01 am

Turdacious wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 12:30 am
DC is close to that. The business district is nearly deserted, restaurants are takeout only, and schools are closed/online classes only.
Same in Maryland.
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Re: My State Has Gone Full Fucking Clownship

Post by Turdacious » Mon Mar 23, 2020 4:48 am

JimZipCode wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:01 am
Turdacious wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 12:30 am
DC is close to that. The business district is nearly deserted, restaurants are takeout only, and schools are closed/online classes only.
Same in Maryland.
Friend of mine in the Anne Arundel County MD area, guy in his mid 30's, probably got it, and displayed symptoms about a week and a half ago. He goes to the same gym as one of the early positive testers in NoVA. He self quarantined pretty quickly, but his health care providers wouldn't test him because his temperature was >102 degrees (the providers have lowered the testing threshold to 100 degrees now). He was pretty out of it for about a week, and now his wife probably has it. He's doing better but has no idea whether or not he's still contagious.

My guess is the situation in the DMV is worse than is being reported.
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Re: My State Has Gone Full Fucking Clownship

Post by Fat Cat » Mon Mar 23, 2020 5:30 pm

[-o< Our Mayor just hit the nuclear button. Shelter at home till April 31st.
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Re: My State Has Gone Full Fucking Clownship

Post by nafod » Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:11 pm

Guy that works for me, his mom and dad have both been laid off. The company his dad works for said, "Fuck it, we're done" and flat out closed up shop forever. Job permanently gone.

Our choice as it looks right now is to relax these things and accept the slam on the health care system and the resulting horrendous death toll for both COVID 19 patients and others who would normally have access to health care for other things. Or keep the total clamp down going and accept the economic destruction going on. Quite a choice.

In the same way that a hospital can put a patient on an ECMO machine and completely take over for the lungs, circulating and oxygenating blood out of the body, the Feds have to basically completely take over the economy, sending money to folks who would have gotten it via actually working.

Possibly if the testing gets ramped way the fuck up and we can find some existing drugs that can inhibit the virus, we can control this thing enough to get things going a bit again.
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Re: My State Has Gone Full Fucking Clownship

Post by Fat Cat » Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:23 pm

nafod wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:11 pm
Our choice as it looks right now is to relax these things and accept the slam on the health care system and the resulting horrendous death toll for both COVID 19 patients and others who would normally have access to health care for other things. Or keep the total clamp down going and accept the economic destruction going on. Quite a choice.
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As callous as it may be, I am starting to think that the former choice may be preferable. If we tank the economy you will have people dying of diseases we haven't heard about in 100 years.
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Re: My State Has Gone Full Fucking Clownship

Post by newguy » Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:43 pm

But the economy is going to be fucked either way.

You have to flatten the curve and shelter in place. There is no other option at moment and it's what is going to happen anyways.

Once everyone starts getting sick and there are no more beds, everyone is staying home anyways. I'm not going into work knowing that if I get the disease and it takes a wrong turn I'm fucked. I'm not sending my kid to school knowing that if she gets it and on the off chance it goes serious there is no medical help.

By doing it this way, shelter in place etc, we hopefully have an economic disaster without a complete collapse of everything.

Letting it run it's course we have an economic disaster with a potential collapse of society.

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Re: My State Has Gone Full Fucking Clownship

Post by Fat Cat » Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:59 pm

I'm glad you know all that. I'm not sure I have the confidence you do.
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Re: My State Has Gone Full Fucking Clownship

Post by newguy » Mon Mar 23, 2020 7:05 pm

Fat Cat wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:59 pm
I'm glad you know all that. I'm not sure I have the confidence you do.
I'm just projecting from what is happening where people weren't isolated until too late and not enough testing. AKA the italy situation.

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Re: My State Has Gone Full Fucking Clownship

Post by nafod » Mon Mar 23, 2020 7:24 pm

Fat Cat wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:23 pm
nafod wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:11 pm
Our choice as it looks right now is to relax these things and accept the slam on the health care system and the resulting horrendous death toll for both COVID 19 patients and others who would normally have access to health care for other things. Or keep the total clamp down going and accept the economic destruction going on. Quite a choice.
As callous as it may be, I am starting to think that the former choice may be preferable. If we tank the economy you will have people dying of diseases we haven't heard about in 100 years.
So who should sit on the Death Panels allocating the health resources?
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Re: My State Has Gone Full Fucking Clownship

Post by Fat Cat » Mon Mar 23, 2020 7:33 pm

Calm down, Sarah Palin.
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Re: My State Has Gone Full Fucking Clownship

Post by newguy » Mon Mar 23, 2020 7:45 pm

I vote myself.

I will sit on the Death Panel.

And I can be bought.

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Re: My State Has Gone Full Fucking Clownship

Post by Grandpa's Spells » Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:21 am

Fat Cat wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 7:33 pm
Calm down, Sarah Palin.
Get ready for your new talking points. Letting old people die to save the economy is already being floated.
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Re: My State Has Gone Full Fucking Clownship

Post by Fat Cat » Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:48 am

Ya, imagine choosing who lives and who dies.

https://www.plannedparenthood.org/
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Re: My State Has Gone Full Fucking Clownship

Post by motherjuggs&speed » Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:22 am

You could frame it as "letting old people die to save the economy". You could also call it not destroying the economy at the cost of some number of lives. I haven't seen any assessments of economic damage vs. lives lost vs. societal disruption vs. government oppression. The experts on pandemics are telling us what they believe will save lives but they haven't dealt with something on this scale. People are slamming the other party/factions position without giving an assessment of how their plan will work. This is why we're doomed -- people want to believe what they want to believe even when some math and logic would show them it's not that simple or easy. While it's not possible to say for sure what all the permutations of testing and isolation and preventing people from moving and working and treatment options will do, even in an ideal scenario where everything works as planned, we do know some things:

The economy going on freeze will do a lot of harm.

A lot of people are going to die no matter what we do.

Maybe it's best to not admit COVID-19 patients at all and let hospitals function more or less normally. Cuomo is sounding less rational by the day: he's ordered hospitals to stop doing the kinds of elective procedures that allow them to make enough to stay open. What if they just close instead of running at an unsustainable loss? Governments can't make things happen magically by decree.

We don't know what the least bad option is exactly, but let's consider some horrible ideas that are less horrible than the most horrible ones. Triage. If it makes you feel better you can say death panels. Setting up COVID-19 facilities where people will get some palliative care and we hope for the best. Trying new treatments that might be harmful. Closing down most things is being tried but I don't see that working for long. Let's just admit that we have no simple or easy answers and really look at the hard choices.

A lot of this discussion will seem quaint in six weeks. I think this whole thing is going to be the worst combination of all the dystopian scenarios but hopefully that won't happen. But I don't see any reason to doubt it.

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Re: My State Has Gone Full Fucking Clownship

Post by Grandpa's Spells » Tue Mar 24, 2020 4:46 pm

motherjuggs&speed wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:22 am
You could frame it as "letting old people die to save the economy". You could also call it not destroying the economy at the cost of some number of lives.
That's wrong though. The economic damage will not be lessened. It would be more accurate to say, "Letting the infection run wild and guarantee the overwhelming of hospitals and subsequent preventable deaths in the hopes of short term gain." The rest of the world has a large say in what happens to US the stock market. Looking like a shithole country will not help. Destroying the healthcare industry will not help.

It's important to note that nobody outside the cult is suggesting this will actually help the economy. This is a bridge too far even for Lindsay Graham and Ted Cruz.

Recessions are economically normal, they just happen to be bad for the president. Letting a plague run wild in the false hope of sort term gain is insane.
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Re: My State Has Gone Full Fucking Clownship

Post by newguy » Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:03 pm

Oh good grief....

There is no reason to let a 45 year old die just because we couldn't figure out how to have enough ventilators.

And when that 45 year old dies and it happens on a mass scale what do you think will happen to the economy?

Do you think people are going to be going out to eat when people around them are sick and dying? Sending their kids to school knowing that their teachers may have it and pass it on to their children then their parents?

Anyone who is saying "let the old people die" doesn't understand that most people don't want to let their parents die. And that is the old people..people's parents... people's grandparents.

I am at an age bracket where if I get it and it gets serious I should survive...with proper medical care. But there isn't enough proper care to go around. I'm not going out beyond what I absolutely have to.

This isn't a hoax. It is a real disease and yes, it sucks that things are not normal, but it's what people have to do right now.

Stay inside. Stop going out. Don't get sick. Slow the spread of this shit.

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Re: My State Has Gone Full Fucking Clownship

Post by nafod » Tue Mar 24, 2020 7:59 pm

Liberty University is returning from Spring Break and will be back on campus to live if they want to, although they are doing distance learning. It'll be an interesting experiment. The virus should rage through the campus lickety-split, but its all young kids mostly (sorry professors) and then they'll contribute to herd immunity in the summer.
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Re: My State Has Gone Full Fucking Clownship

Post by Alfred_E._Neuman » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:19 pm

nafod wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 7:59 pm
Liberty University is returning from Spring Break and will be back on campus to live if they want to, although they are doing distance learning. It'll be an interesting experiment. The virus should rage through the campus lickety-split, but its all young kids mostly (sorry professors) and then they'll contribute to herd immunity in the summer.
They already have a mind virus. May as well get a physical one as well. :Hangman:
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Re: My State Has Gone Full Fucking Clownship

Post by Bram » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:37 pm

Libraries, gyms, my job, parks, beaches (and getting in the water), all shut down.

Still can ride a bike or walk, though not on boardwalks.

But played online Dungeons and Dragons last night over audio chat (surprisingly super fun) and skateboarded some quiet hills yesterday. And surfed this morning until being kicked out of the water and threatened with 1000$ fine.

Heard Covid-19 is being vastly under-reported in San Diego due to lack of protective equipment resources and that health care workers here are terrified of the impending crisis.
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Re: My State Has Gone Full Fucking Clownship

Post by seeahill » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:48 pm

They closed down Yellowstone National Park and adjoining Teton National Park.

The idea is that those of us who live in places adjoining the Parks do not need infected folks coming through, perhaps spreading the disease. That's important where I live. We have no reported cases in my town (7000) or county (16,000).

The closings are controversial here. For instance, I think it's a good idea while my lady friend hates it.
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Re: My State Has Gone Full Fucking Clownship

Post by Fat Cat » Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:12 pm

Pics of lady friend to assess the value of her opinion.
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Re: My State Has Gone Full Fucking Clownship

Post by newguy » Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:29 pm

Bram wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:37 pm
Libraries, gyms, my job, parks, beaches (and getting in the water), all shut down.

Still can ride a bike or walk, though not on boardwalks.

But played online Dungeons and Dragons last night over audio chat (surprisingly super fun) and skateboarded some quiet hills yesterday. And surfed this morning until being kicked out of the water and threatened with 1000$ fine.

Heard Covid-19 is being vastly under-reported in San Diego due to lack of protective equipment resources and that health care workers here are terrified of the impending crisis.
The entirety of Southern Cal, from the border up through Santa Barbara is grossly under reported. There are no tests. In LA county the health department has essentially said we are only testing if the testing will warrant some type of difference in treatment. I.E. they need to figure out if it is Covid 19 or something else.

I've got a friend in L.A. proper who her doctor said "yeah, you probably have it. We can't test. Just stay home." But she's scared as fuck because before she had symptoms she took groceries to her parents, who are older. Who then visited her grand parents. Etc. Etc.

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Re: My State Has Gone Full Fucking Clownship

Post by Sua Sponte » Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:41 pm

seeahill wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:48 pm
We have no reported cases in my town (7000) or county (16,000).
Gallatin has 16, 10 of which are in Bozeman, four of which are designated communal transport. Lots of folks drive over the pass for work everyday. It's a comin'.

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Re: My State Has Gone Full Fucking Clownship

Post by Fat Cat » Tue Mar 24, 2020 11:17 pm

newguy wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:29 pm
I've got a friend in L.A. proper who her doctor said "yeah, you probably have it. We can't test. Just stay home." But she's scared as fuck because before she had symptoms she took groceries to her parents, who are older. Who then visited her grand parents. Etc. Etc.
Pics of friend to assess depth of her fear.
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Re: My State Has Gone Full Fucking Clownship

Post by seeahill » Tue Mar 24, 2020 11:43 pm

Sua Sponte wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:41 pm
seeahill wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:48 pm
We have no reported cases in my town (7000) or county (16,000).
Gallatin has 16, 10 of which are in Bozeman, four of which are designated communal transport. Lots of folks drive over the pass for work everyday. It's a comin'.
Yup.

Luckily, it's taken a while to reach us. We are expecting it and more prepared.

Knock on wood.
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