Economy or Minimizing Risk?

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motherjuggs&speed
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Re: Economy or Minimizing Risk?

Post by motherjuggs&speed » Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:08 pm

"with their five sons, all of them under the age of five."


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Shafpocalypse Now
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Re: Economy or Minimizing Risk?

Post by Shafpocalypse Now » Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:41 pm

This is why there needs to be free and easy abortion.

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Re: Economy or Minimizing Risk?

Post by Fat Cat » Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:17 pm

That's why there needs to be free and easy executions.
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Bennyonesix1
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Re: Economy or Minimizing Risk?

Post by Bennyonesix1 » Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:29 pm

nafod wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:34 pm
Bennyonesix1 wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 12:59 pm
If we aren't venting people, it's not going to overwhelm the system. As the respirator shortage was what they claimed would lead to system failure.
Just hospital beds in general are important. There's a shit-ton of folks dying at home these days, well above the norm (and not getting counted as COVID mortalities). Access to O2 and someone to roll them over into the prone position (that seems to be a big lesson learned)

We're going to find out what happens when we open things back up here, shortly. I'm able to keep my distance and watch from the sidelines. I expect a surge in cases, maybe massive.
This is non-responsive as well.

The argument for the nationwide economic lockdown was because ppl needed to be vented and we did not have enough. Therefore, we decided to decrease the rate of infection (note: not the total infected) via quarantining the healthy. That was it.

It was about running out of vents. Italy was about vents. And Italy was the parade of horribles. If you had argued that we may run out of beds or 02 so shut down the economy you'd have rightly been laughed out of town. And you know this. The logistical issues in increasing beds and 02 is at least an order of magnitude less than making vents.

Absent intubation it is the flu. Maybe somewhat worse, maybe not. But just the flu.
Last edited by Bennyonesix1 on Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Economy or Minimizing Risk?

Post by Bennyonesix1 » Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:36 pm

Shafpocalypse Now wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:54 pm
Bennyonesix1 wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 12:59 pm
ni
Right. There's no meaningful difference between the two experiments despite those demographic differences.

60% remain asymptomatic for the duration of the illness.

Given these numbers (and especially the realization that intubation and ventilation aren't effective treatments and oxygen is better) I cannot see how this is anything like what it is being portrayed as.

If we aren't venting people, it's not going to overwhelm the system. As the respirator shortage was what they claimed would lead to system failure.

None of this has made any sense to me from the beginning. All I know is ppl in responsibility are lying to us for our own good. Just like with AIDS.
AIDS was always about minority population control. This is why Magic Johnson was paid by the gov to pretend he had AIDS and to promote condom use. Notice he is AIDS free now? A fucking miracle.

As a side note, I was having a candid conversation with a young woman of color and she told me that her peers have this attitude of "If he isn't man enough to nut inside me and risk getting me pregnant, he's not man enough"
Yeah. If it wasn't man made, it was quickly used for a whole host of purposes. HIPPA came out of that and then the health care industry ran with it and now it is just insane.

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Re: Economy or Minimizing Risk?

Post by Shafpocalypse Now » Sat Apr 18, 2020 5:24 pm

Initially the lockdown was "We need to lockdown to save the ventilators and hospital beds and spread out their usage"

Now all of a sudden it's "We need to stay locked down so we don't get infected" with a side of "we need to stay locked down until more treatment options are available"...and there's some small doubt that a vaccination will ever work.

But, we can't return to anything like normal until most of us GET INFECTED.

Testing is important to understand this thing as a whole, but testing is NOT important to the individual. You assume you have it, and you self-quarantine to try to avoid giving it to your family, but maybe that isn't important either because you've been infectious for days before you start feeling shitty, if you even start feeling shitty. If you get it and you start tanking you go to the ER. If you don't, you suffer at home. In Texas, until about a week ago, they would only test you if you were sick enough to be admitted to the hospital.

Let's talk about real covid survival strategies:

-don't be old.
-don't be fat (oops, i'm fucked still after dropping 25# since Jan)
-be fit (here's i'm good, my RHR is 47-49, blood pressure good, etc.
-there's some evidence that suggests you try to maintain some level of movement while you have this, don't just go bedridden.

I'm going to be honest here, there's a very good chance this will kill my youngest son if he gets it, the panhypopituitary brain tumor survivor. And my mom. And my mother in law and father in law, both of whom I love...I have a lot of skin in this game.

I can't wait until the democrats start to blame the republicans for the deaths caused by this virus, or vice versa.

It's a fucking virus. This is what it does.

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Re: Economy or Minimizing Risk?

Post by nafod » Sat Apr 18, 2020 11:45 pm

Shafpocalypse Now wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 5:24 pm
Let's talk about real covid survival strategies
So if the serum stuff works, I'd let myself get infected while having a serum treatment lined up, then on day 7 get the treatment. My theory is that it would nut-punch the virus to keep me from having a cytokine storm while my body cranks up the antibodies.

Google on "variolation" where you take a minimal dose of the virus, enough to trigger an infection and get your body cranking antibodies, but not enough to overwhelm your lungs before your body can respond. Worked with smallpox, and a lot of indications suggests the dosing has a big impact with COVID-19.
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Re: Economy or Minimizing Risk?

Post by newguy » Sun Apr 19, 2020 1:48 am

Shafpocalypse Now wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 5:24 pm
Initially the lockdown was "We need to lockdown to save the ventilators and hospital beds and spread out their usage"

Now all of a sudden it's "We need to stay locked down so we don't get infected" with a side of "we need to stay locked down until more treatment options are available"...and there's some small doubt that a vaccination will ever work.
I'm doubtful that even if a vaccination comes out we will get enough people to take it, especially among the evangelical trump base, most of whom seem to believe that this is all a ploy by the bill and melinda gates foundation to seize control of the free world.

I am still hopeful that better treatment options will become available that lower the death rate and make the "it's just like the flu" comparisons more real.

But as far as I can tell we aren't there yet. And I am not convinced that Italy and New York are outliers. I think they are examples of what happens if you fuck around and don't take strong measures to prevent this spread.

But really, all we need to do is watch Florida. They are opening shit up left and right. Give it a week or two. If they are all fine, great. Let's open up. If they all die, well very sad for them but thank you for taking the bullet for us.

One thing that concerns me though is how do we open up without opening up the schools? I don't see it happening.

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Re: Economy or Minimizing Risk?

Post by Turdacious » Sun Apr 19, 2020 3:25 am

newguy wrote:
Sun Apr 19, 2020 1:48 am
I'm doubtful that even if a vaccination comes out we will get enough people to take it, especially among the evangelical trump base, most of whom seem to believe that this is all a ploy by the bill and melinda gates foundation to seize control of the free world.
Evangelicals aren't the problem.
The creeping return of deadly diseases like measles should be blamed on “Whole Foods mums” who refuse to vaccinate their children, a global health chief has said. Parents in developed countries are shunning the life-saving injections by “trying to be organic”, amid a barrage of anti-vaccine conspiracy theories led by American celebrities, said Seth Berkley, the head of international vaccine alliance Gavi [...] Gavi, is a joint public and private partnership that includes governments, the World Health Organisation, Unicef and the World Bank as well as philanthropists including Bill and Melinda Gates. It combines demands from developing countries to create a larger, more attractive market for manufacturers of vaccines.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/heal ... 50281.html
Seth Mnookin, a journalist who's chronicled the anti-vaccination movement, observed a few years ago that you only had to go visit a Whole Foods to find anti-vaxxers[...]
Researchers analyzing records for about 55,000 children born in 13 northern California counties between 2010 and 2012 found five geographic clusters of 3-year-olds with significantly higher rates of vaccine refusal.

These included East Bay (10.2 percent refusal rate); Marin and southwest Sonoma counties (6.6 percent refusal); northeastern San Francisco (7.4 percent); northeastern Sacramento County and Roseville (5.5 percent); and south of Sacramento (13.5 percent). By comparison, the vaccine refusal rate outside these clusters is 2.6 percent, according to the study published in the journal Pediatrics.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won ... -everyone/
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Re: Economy or Minimizing Risk?

Post by Turdacious » Sun Apr 19, 2020 3:38 am

nafod wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 11:45 pm
Shafpocalypse Now wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 5:24 pm
Let's talk about real covid survival strategies
So if the serum stuff works, I'd let myself get infected while having a serum treatment lined up, then on day 7 get the treatment. My theory is that it would nut-punch the virus to keep me from having a cytokine storm while my body cranks up the antibodies.

Google on "variolation" where you take a minimal dose of the virus, enough to trigger an infection and get your body cranking antibodies, but not enough to overwhelm your lungs before your body can respond. Worked with smallpox, and a lot of indications suggests the dosing has a big impact with COVID-19.
Not an anti-vaxxer, but there are risks with rushing a vaccine to market, as the DOD found out with the anthrax vaccine.
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Bennyonesix1
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Re: Economy or Minimizing Risk?

Post by Bennyonesix1 » Sun Apr 19, 2020 3:05 pm

Look, States cannot run a deficit or declare BKY. It is illegal for them to do either.

So, ask yourself, is the Fed Gov going to write blank checks to Govs for 6 months or more? Think about it. 50 states. Is the Fed Gov going to financially support Govs de-industrializing and collapsing their economies? It would be an eternal commitment to support.

It would be the de facto end of the system laid out in the US Constitution and the destruction of the entire economy.

But, yeah, we'll do this for a virus that kills people who are sadly going to die next year from the flu anyway.

So you can talk about vaccines (lol) or bending curves or saving just one life or you're killing my grandmother or we"ll runnout of beds or It's not the flu or science or whatever, but unless you think the Feds are going to let Whitmer and Cuomo and Murphy destroy their states for decades to come and then pass the bill to the Feds.... we're going back to work.



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