Presidential Debates

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newguy
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Re: Presidential Debates

Post by newguy » Thu Oct 01, 2020 3:17 pm

DrDonkeyLove... wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 2:30 pm
newguy wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 1:42 pm
Oh I get the Proud Boys. I don't remember who it was, but someone who used to post here regularly back in the day would often talk about how he wasn't a racist but a western chauvinist. (Those were not his exact words.)

Look, I don't give a shit about the proud boys. Have guns, venerate the housewife, push for closed borders. How you spend your weekend is up to you.

We also both know that telling the proud boys to "stand back and stand by" is either really fucking weird, or from another point of view not weird at all.

Back when he was first doing this is 2020, there was a lot of weird nazi references and people talked about how it was tongue in cheek or just mistakes.

Now you've got this fucker whose whole reelection strategy seems to be to convince everyone that the election is being rigged by the democrats and he's telling these armed paramilitary groups to stand back and stand by.

Complete lunacy.
Trump is a weirdo, it's undeniable. He stuck his own foot in his mouth in the debate and has to live with the consequences. Joe seems to be getting a complete pass for denying that Antifa is even a group.

Trump said a moderately violent group should "step back and stand by" while Joe said a very violent group that we've watched burn our country all summer is just an "idea" and doesn't exist. Both of them are quietly giving a soft green light to such groups. That should be the story if we're to delay the great unraveling.
Joe Biden is not the second coming of Abraham Lincoln. No one is proclaiming this. Joe Biden is also not engaging in rhetoric that glorifies violence and threatens democracy. Does anyone really look at Joe Biden and think he is going to actively encourage an antifa uprising? Or that he supports rioting and looting? Of course not. No one in their right mind thinks this.

It wasn't a slip of the tongue or sticking a foot in the mouth. It was an extremely weird, odd, unreal thing to say at a debate.

Read an article yesterday that was comparing trump in his 2016 debate with hilary vs. now, and it was really interesting to see how much he has unraveled.

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Re: Presidential Debates

Post by Shafpocalypse Now » Thu Oct 01, 2020 3:46 pm

At this point we look at actions

Antifa: Starts all the rioting after dark in Portland. This is going on 4 months now. Also, Antifa is full of criminals. All those people Riddenhouse shot were criminals. Also, bullying the general public. Cries when caught beating someone with frozen water bottles in a plastic grocery bag. Has shot people without warning. Racism against whites in rampant display. Violent, multiple time offenders are getting bussed around the country for riot tourism.

need we go on?

Antifa is a very clever name. Like Black Lives Matter. Who is for fascism? Not me. Who doesn't think black lives do matter? Not me. However, neither organization is what their name claims it to be.

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Re: Presidential Debates

Post by Grandpa's Spells » Thu Oct 01, 2020 5:04 pm

Shafpocalypse Now wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 3:46 pm
All those people Riddenhouse shot were criminals.
That's pretty tortured. I believe it's been pretty definitively shown at this point that Rittenhouse was illegally armed, and the first person he shot had thrown an empty plastic bag at him. The other people he shot were chasing him after he had just murdered someone.

I realize people consume different news and maybe you have sources citing something different, but the threshold for shooting somebody legally is pretty high, and "They were criminals" does not meet it.
One of the downsides of the Internet is that it allows like-minded people to form communities, and sometimes those communities are stupid.

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Re: Presidential Debates

Post by Fat Cat » Thu Oct 01, 2020 5:27 pm

Grandpa's Spells wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 5:04 pm
Shafpocalypse Now wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 3:46 pm
All those people Riddenhouse shot were criminals.
That's pretty tortured. I believe it's been pretty definitively shown at this point that Rittenhouse was illegally armed, and the first person he shot had thrown an empty plastic bag at him. The other people he shot were chasing him after he had just murdered someone.

I realize people consume different news and maybe you have sources citing something different, but the threshold for shooting somebody legally is pretty high, and "They were criminals" does not meet it.
Rittenhouse is a hero.
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Re: Presidential Debates

Post by Hanglow Joe » Thu Oct 01, 2020 5:33 pm

Rittenhouse is a hero.

He was not illegally carrying.

He shot a child diddler who threw a Molotov cocktail at him
A guy who hit him on the head with a skateboard
and a guy who had pointed a gun at his head.

Fuck those guys.

Biden Is a fucking joke. He didn't say anything that made sense. Nothing but empty platitudes and lies fed to him by a wire. Couldn't answer 2 simple questions.

Trump should have just shut the fuck up and let him speak. Need to follow the Art of War, if the enemy is hurting himself, let him keep doing it.

Trump made tremendous points, but was over the top obnoxious

Chris Wallace must have gotten his directives from RINO Paul Ryan.

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Re: Presidential Debates

Post by Fat Cat » Thu Oct 01, 2020 5:56 pm

Presidential Debate Transcript wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 5:33 pm
WALLACE: You have repeatedly criticized the vice president for not specifically calling out Antifa and other left-wing extremist groups --

TRUMP: That's right.

WALLACE: But are you willing tonight to condemn white supremacists and militia groups --

TRUMP: Sure.


WALLACE: -- and to say that they need to stand down and not add to the violence in a number of these cities, as we saw in Kenosha and as we've seen in Portland?

TRUMP: Sure, I'm willing to do that but --

WALLACE: Are you prepared to specifically --

BIDEN: Then do it.

WALLACE: Well, go ahead, sir.

TRUMP: I would say -- I would say almost everything I see is from the left wing, not from the right wing.

WALLACE: So what are you -- what are you --

TRUMP: If you look --

WALLACE: What are you saying?

TRUMP: I'm -- I'm willing to do anything. I want to see peace.

WALLACE: Well, then do it, sir.

BIDEN: Say it. Do it. Say it.

TRUMP: Do you want to call them -- what do you want to call them? Give me a name. Give me a name, go ahead.

WALLACE: White supremacists and --

BIDEN: White supremacists --

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: Well, who would like me condemn?

WALLACE: White supremacists (ph) and right (ph) --

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: Who?

WALLACE: -- militia.

TRUMP: Proud Boys, stand by and stand by. But I'll tell you what -- I'll tell you what, somebody's got to do something about Antifa and the left because this is not a right-wing problem.

BIDEN: His own --

TRUMP: This is a left wing --

BIDEN: His own - his own FBI Director said (inaudible) -

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: -- a left-wing - this is a left-wing problem.

(CROSSTALK)

BIDEN: -- threat (inaudible) White Supremacist.

WALLACE: Go ahead. Go ahead, sir.

BIDEN: ANTIFA'S an idea, not an organization.

TRUMP: Oh, you got to be kidding me.

BIDEN: Not malicious.

TRUMP: Oh really?

BIDEN: That's what his FBI -

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: OK.

BIDEN: -- his FBI Director said.

WALLACE: Gentlemen, we're going to -

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: Well then, you know what? He's wrong.

WALLACE: No, no. We're done. We're done, sir. We're moving on to the next - we're moving -

(CROSSTALK)

BIDEN: Everybody (inaudible) advice in your administration -

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: When a bat hits you over the head (ph), that's not an idea. ANTIFA is bad.

BIDEN: Everybody in your administration tells you the truth is a bad idea.

TRUMP: Can I tell you what?

BIDEN: You have no ideas that are -

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: ANTIFA is a dangerous, radical group.

WALLACE: All right, gentlemen, we're not moving onto the Trump and Biden records.
Source: https://www.concordmonitor.com/First-pr ... t-36532544

As the transcript clearly shows, the whole narrative of "Trump won't condemn white supremacists" is made up bullshit. SPELLS, I will accept your apology now for willfully misrepresenting the facts and taking advantage of the fact that I was not able to watch the debate.
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Re: Presidential Debates

Post by Bennyonesix1 » Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:01 pm

Trump took on Biden and the Moderators and fought hard and never backed down and didn't quit.

He was rough and insulting and crass and ugly during a fight against enemies.

Very few (admittedly some) will hold that against him.

A lot (esp Mexicans and Cubans) will respect him for it.

A solid win for Trump and Biden looked the much less tough guy both mentally and physically. If you lose when the refs have your back like that it is sad.

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Re: Presidential Debates

Post by Bennyonesix1 » Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:02 pm

How is WHITE SUPREMACY not just an ideology like Antifa?

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Re: Presidential Debates

Post by Bennyonesix1 » Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:06 pm

When I effort poast I want myself and my ideas to be noticed.

I insult you because it is the right thing to do.

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Re: Presidential Debates

Post by DrDonkeyLove... » Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:23 pm

Grandpa's Spells wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 5:04 pm
Shafpocalypse Now wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 3:46 pm
All those people Riddenhouse shot were criminals.
That's pretty tortured. I believe it's been pretty definitively shown at this point that Rittenhouse was illegally armed, and the first person he shot had thrown an empty plastic bag at him. The other people he shot were chasing him after he had just murdered someone.

I realize people consume different news and maybe you have sources citing something different, but the threshold for shooting somebody legally is pretty high, and "They were criminals" does not meet it.
In all my long years, I've never heard of anyone throwing an empty plastic bag at someone.

I watched the video released by R's attorney. Obviously not meant to be objective but it was compelling nonetheless.

What's appropriate self defense when you're alone in the night with mob burned buildings all around you and you're being chased by the violent mob that set the fires? I don't know if this fits the legal definition of a justifiable use of deadly force but I think a violent mob is a weapon unto itself so 100% of the chasers were armed IMO.

Personally, I suspect that he's being persecuted by politically motivated prosecutors much like Jake Gardner seems to have been but time will tell.

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Re: Presidential Debates

Post by Fat Cat » Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:23 pm

Bennyonesix1 wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:02 pm
How is WHITE SUPREMACY not just an ideology like Antifa?
Wikipedia Entry for Antifa (US) wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:02 pm
Antifa (/ænˈtiːfə, ˈæntiˌfɑː/)[1] is an anti-fascist action and left-wing political movement in the United States[2][3][4][5] comprising an array of autonomous[6][7] groups that aim to achieve their objectives through the use of both nonviolent and violent direct action rather than through policy reform.
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa_(United_States)

Antifa is a violent organization. White supremacy is an idea. Literal up is down, black is white shit, championed by deluded pantyfaces like SPELLS for God knows what reason.
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Re: Presidential Debates

Post by nafod » Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:36 pm

Bennyonesix1 wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:06 pm
2+2 = 9/11 was an inside job
Don’t believe everything you think.

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Re: Presidential Debates

Post by nafod » Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:36 pm

Bennyonesix1 wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:02 pm
How is WHITE SUPREMACY not just an ideology like Antifa?
The Proud Boys are an organization.
Don’t believe everything you think.

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Re: Presidential Debates

Post by newguy » Thu Oct 01, 2020 7:31 pm

Why do you all think trump is quick to offer a "but" right there.

I will condemn white supremacy BUT.......
Sure....I "would" say that BUT.......

Serious question.

It would seem like a fine answer would be
"Yes. White supremacy is bad."

And again....what the hell is the point of right then and there directly calling out proud boys. No one was talking about them. No one was saying anything about them.

It's all right there people. It shouldn't take mental gymnastics to figure this shit out.

Biden saying antifa is not malicious is lame, but he didn't name a charter or organization and tell them to be ready. If Biden had said anything like "Black Lives Matter, get ready" or "Rose City Antifa, let's do this" some of you all would be oiling your muskets and preparing for war in the streets.

Both of these bozos make Kanye West look like a very fine choice indeed.

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Re: Presidential Debates

Post by Fat Cat » Thu Oct 01, 2020 7:35 pm

nafod wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:36 pm
Bennyonesix1 wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:02 pm
How is WHITE SUPREMACY not just an ideology like Antifa?
The Proud Boys are an organization.
Yes, led by a black Hispanic man. Where is your critical thinking?
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Re: Presidential Debates

Post by Fat Cat » Thu Oct 01, 2020 7:40 pm

newguy wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 7:31 pm
Why do you all think trump is quick to offer a "but" right there.

I will condemn white supremacy BUT.......
Sure....I "would" say that BUT.......

Serious question.

It would seem like a fine answer would be
"Yes. White supremacy is bad."

And again....what the hell is the point of right then and there directly calling out proud boys. No one was talking about them. No one was saying anything about them.

It's all right there people. It shouldn't take mental gymnastics to figure this shit out.

Biden saying antifa is not malicious is lame, but he didn't name a charter or organization and tell them to be ready. If Biden had said anything like "Black Lives Matter, get ready" or "Rose City Antifa, let's do this" some of you all would be oiling your muskets and preparing for war in the streets.

Both of these bozos make Kanye West look like a very fine choice indeed.
LOL tits or GTFO you must be a woman, ruminating about use of a conjunction in a sentence. Here, I'll help you little lady:

"A conjunction (also called a connective) is a word such as and, because, but, for, if, or, and when. Conjunctions are used to connect phrases, clauses, and sentences. The two main kinds are known as coordinating conjunctions and subordinating conjunctions."


"But" is a coordinating conjunction! So when you're tall enough to go on the big kid rides at Disneyland, you too can forge sentences with two or more co-equal clauses. Now go to church and stay there.
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Re: Presidential Debates

Post by Grandpa's Spells » Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:01 pm

DrDonkeyLove... wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:23 pm
What's appropriate self defense when you're alone in the night with mob burned buildings all around you and you're being chased by the violent mob that set the fires?
Taking this at face value. When this is around your house or property this is a real question to think about. We had looters trying to get into the pharmacy below my last place in the city, which we have tenants in now, so the building had to have a plan of managing access and what to do if people tried to enter or destroy the pharmacy below. Some folks had businesses destroyed by looters, so while "my property" was under threat, my relative hassle was tiny and I was at no physical risk.

This kid was at far less risk until he started making terrible and illegal choices. A minor bringing a gun illegally to another state to run alone amongst the crowds he expects to be violent is almost impossibly ill-advised. I realize he's become a tard celebre among a certain set, but everything he did flies in the face of how a civilian can have a defensive shooting situation get ruled as clean: Don't break law, don't go looking for trouble, don't brandish, don't shoot somebody for throwing a bag at you.
One of the downsides of the Internet is that it allows like-minded people to form communities, and sometimes those communities are stupid.

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Re: Presidential Debates

Post by Fat Cat » Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:01 pm

Here's Trump disavowing white supremacists to Chris Wallace in 2016: https://mobile.twitter.com/RubinReport/ ... 7613504512

Here he is doing it to ABC News yesterday: https://mobile.twitter.com/KyraPhillips ... 3268987904

So there, now I've posted examples of him disavowing white supremacists before, during, and after the debate. Dry your tears. Now you can sleep peacefully at night.
Last edited by Fat Cat on Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Presidential Debates

Post by Fat Cat » Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:05 pm

Grandpa's Spells wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:01 pm
Don't break law, don't go looking for trouble, don't brandish, don't shoot somebody
You're talking about the rioters, right? Like the guy that tried to shoot Kyle? Right?
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Re: Presidential Debates

Post by Grandpa's Spells » Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:11 pm

Fat Cat wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:05 pm
Grandpa's Spells wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:01 pm
Don't break law, don't go looking for trouble, don't brandish, don't shoot somebody
You're talking about the rioters, right? Like the guy that tried to shoot Kyle? Right?
I don't think anybody is making good choices, but I believe the whole point of the CCW fetishists is they can help if they see an active shooter.

The whole point of an automatic first degree murder charge if you kill someone while committing a crime is that you are effectively causing the deadly encounter with your crime, even if circumstances later might give you a reason to kill someone. If I mug somebody, they go for the gun, and I kill them, I expect a murder charge. Kyle killing people who attack him after he murders someone is Kyle committing additional murders.
One of the downsides of the Internet is that it allows like-minded people to form communities, and sometimes those communities are stupid.

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Re: Presidential Debates

Post by Fat Cat » Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:26 pm

Grandpa's Spells wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:11 pm
Fat Cat wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:05 pm
Grandpa's Spells wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:01 pm
Don't break law, don't go looking for trouble, don't brandish, don't shoot somebody
You're talking about the rioters, right? Like the guy that tried to shoot Kyle? Right?
I don't think anybody is making good choices, but I believe the whole point of the CCW fetishists is they can help if they see an active shooter.

The whole point of an automatic first degree murder charge if you kill someone while committing a crime is that you are effectively causing the deadly encounter with your crime, even if circumstances later might give you a reason to kill someone. If I mug somebody, they go for the gun, and I kill them, I expect a murder charge. Kyle killing people who attack him after he murders someone is Kyle committing additional murders.
Uh, dear friend, you don't actually get an automatic first degree murder charge if you kill someone while committing a crime. Drunks kill people on the road all the time and don't get murder one. You should really ask for your money back from your law school. You are a lawyer, spouting all this jurisprudence, right?
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Re: Presidential Debates

Post by Bennyonesix1 » Fri Oct 02, 2020 12:55 am

nafod wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:36 pm
Bennyonesix1 wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:06 pm
2+2 = 9/11 was an inside job
It absolutely was idiot

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Re: Presidential Debates

Post by Bennyonesix1 » Fri Oct 02, 2020 12:58 am

nafod wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:36 pm
Bennyonesix1 wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:02 pm
How is WHITE SUPREMACY not just an ideology like Antifa?
The Proud Boys are an organization.
Facile non-responsiveness

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Re: Presidential Debates

Post by Bennyonesix1 » Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:03 am

Grandpa's Spells wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:11 pm
Fat Cat wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:05 pm
Grandpa's Spells wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:01 pm
Don't break law, don't go looking for trouble, don't brandish, don't shoot somebody
You're talking about the rioters, right? Like the guy that tried to shoot Kyle? Right?
I don't think anybody is making good choices, but I believe the whole point of the CCW fetishists is they can help if they see an active shooter.

The whole point of an automatic first degree murder charge if you kill someone while committing a crime is that you are effectively causing the deadly encounter with your crime, even if circumstances later might give you a reason to kill someone. If I mug somebody, they go for the gun, and I kill them, I expect a murder charge. Kyle killing people who attack him after he murders someone is Kyle committing additional murders.
Wait wut?

Are you talking about Felony Murder?

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Re: Presidential Debates

Post by Schlegel » Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:05 am

This is a useless argument. Are muggings not real when commited by someone who isn't a paid-up member of a local mugger's union? Independent enlistment in an ideology is a thing, as anyone trying to stop lone-wolf terrorists could tell you.
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