The couch thread

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Mountebank
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Re: The couch thread

Post by Mountebank »

This sounds pretty spot on, knowing HQ types...
http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/showth ... ost2572244
A little bird knows.. his wife isn't out for blood. Greg explicitly wants her away from the business. She has been pushed out since their whole divorce and issues started happening. He tried to offer her an out based on future earnings of CFHQ earlier this year. The problem is, there's some legal issues because she's entitled to her half now and HQ isn't financially stable (never has been- for a lot of reasons, mostly personnel aren't capable). And it isn't more than the Anthos offer. The reality is that Anthos comes to the table with a legitimate offer and a clean break for her. Just like Greg wants. Whereas, CFHQ can't. Having been a part of that place, they nearly break even on cash because of the lack of control of their operational spending (they even couldn't make payroll a few times. And they still drew out those huge salaries in the meantime- irresponsible). Take a wild guess about how much salary some of those folks make. I'll give you a hint. High six figures, low seven. straight cash. Plus the way these folks conduct themselves professionally is appalling. The fact that they are lying and making a public scene out of this benefits no one and it's childish. Their brand suffers, and all of the CF'ers out there suffer. They are selfish and deserve what they get. I know that Anthos wouldn't come in and disrupt a good thing. First rule: if it ain't broke, don't fix it. There are obvious ways that they can insert a little operational control, and perhaps even help encourage better service to the affiliates. I know that their aim isn't to do what Greg is claiming. Those claims are lies that Greg is spreading because his ego is getting crushed over this. Simply because someone outsmarted him. To quote some of them when they try to backpedal from doing something stupid "It's just business".

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Re: The couch thread

Post by Shafpocalypse Now »

Lol at Chris mason dick sucking in that thread


tzg
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Re: The couch thread

Post by tzg »

What a duck says wrote:This sounds pretty spot on, knowing HQ types...
http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/showth ... ost2572244
A little bird knows.. his wife isn't out for blood. Greg explicitly wants her away from the business. She has been pushed out since their whole divorce and issues started happening. He tried to offer her an out based on future earnings of CFHQ earlier this year. The problem is, there's some legal issues because she's entitled to her half now and HQ isn't financially stable (never has been- for a lot of reasons, mostly personnel aren't capable). And it isn't more than the Anthos offer. The reality is that Anthos comes to the table with a legitimate offer and a clean break for her. Just like Greg wants. Whereas, CFHQ can't. Having been a part of that place, they nearly break even on cash because of the lack of control of their operational spending (they even couldn't make payroll a few times. And they still drew out those huge salaries in the meantime- irresponsible). Take a wild guess about how much salary some of those folks make. I'll give you a hint. High six figures, low seven. straight cash. Plus the way these folks conduct themselves professionally is appalling. The fact that they are lying and making a public scene out of this benefits no one and it's childish. Their brand suffers, and all of the CF'ers out there suffer. They are selfish and deserve what they get. I know that Anthos wouldn't come in and disrupt a good thing. First rule: if it ain't broke, don't fix it. There are obvious ways that they can insert a little operational control, and perhaps even help encourage better service to the affiliates. I know that their aim isn't to do what Greg is claiming. Those claims are lies that Greg is spreading because his ego is getting crushed over this. Simply because someone outsmarted him. To quote some of them when they try to backpedal from doing something stupid "It's just business".
Deserves to be repeated.


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Re: The couch thread

Post by tzg »

http://board.crossfit.com/showpost.php? ... tcount=285
I have a question for the lawyers here, and perhaps for everyone involved as an affiliate to seriously think about.

What I've taken away from this thread is: in an attempt to protect the interests of one of the owners, as well as the culture of Crossfit, HQ Staff, along with Coach Glassman, are engaging in a deliberate attempt to devalue the business (in dollar terms) in an attempt to poison the well vis-à-vis Lauren Glassman's attempt to sell her 50% to a private equity firm.

How is this not either a breach of Greg Glassman's fiduciary duties or at the very least tortious interference?
An amusingly lulzy response posted by Russell Greene of a lawyer friend of his:
"Coach Glassman's unique vision and model for this business has created the meteoric growth and resulting value that exists today, and which is expected to continue growing in the future. The Anthos vision and model are antithetical to and destructive the core precepts from which the value of CrossFit arises. This is clearly demonstrated by the views of the many affiliates who've posted on this thread. Anthos' vision would destroy the affiliate relationship and thereby do great harm to the value of the company, and its value to the 4,000 affiliates worldwide and the 30,000 certified trainers worldwide. Rejecting Anthos preserves and protects the source of the Company's value against the harm that would ensue from the Anthos vision being implemented in CrossFit. That's why their proposal was rejected when it was first presented. Protecting the culture and model - from which the value arises - is protecting the value of the business, and is therefore a performance, not a breach of duty."
1. We don't know that Anthos' vision is destructive to CF, we have only what Greg has told the affiliates and what Bryan Kelly has said. Those are at complete odds with each other.
2. "Clearly demonstrated by the views of the affiliates"... See #1. They are reacting to what Greg said.
3. "Anthos' vision would destroy...". See #1.
4. I do grant that protecting the culture and blah blah blah can act to preserve value.


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Re: The couch thread

Post by tzg »

Another one from the first freethinker I quoted:
That's easy, I want the responsible parties in this transaction (Coach G as 50% equity holder, Lauren Glassman, and Anthos) to handle this in their own, legal realms.

IF there is something the community can do, then HQ needs to lay out a clear plan of action.

Right now they seme like they are riling everyone up in case things don't go their way so that the brand would lose value. And it's working.

Remember, HQ didn't ask the affiliates to calmly band together (or even do it separately) and submit a clear letter of what they wanted to Anthos. They called on the community to drum up as much fervor and outrage as possible with only HQ's side of the story. They were told to post about it on their affiliate sites, on social media, and "get the word out" without actually providing much word.

They didn't present all the facts they had (who the partner was, offer they made to the partner, why it was declined if they knew, and so on) and instead relied on pure scare tactics to get people ready to jump ship and drive down the brand value if things went south for them at HQ.

Almost all of their "Anthos is bad because" information is strictly based on he said, she said information and speculative finger pointing.

HQ pointed out that Bryan Kelly is speaking for another partner at Anthos that is a former Goldman-Sachs exec and how that MUST mean there's someting bad going on. Yet couldn't we also point the finger at HQ for having the Russ's address the community via a discussion board instead of Coach Glassman presenting an official statement on the site from the get-go?

Russel Berger has hinted that since Bryan Kelly's wife is an exec at LuLuLemon that its obvious they're up to no good and that LuLuLemon has been plotting to get a piece of the pie all along. Yet again, baseless speculation touted as clear motivations.

So what I WANT to happen is for HQ, Anthos, and Lauren to handle this between themselves and give the community true, factual, and verifiable infromation instead of speculation and fear.

Since that won't happen, I'd settle for them cutting out the scare tactics and stop using the community as a bargaining pawn.

And if you think you aren't being used (at least in part) to drive down the value potential of the company for Anthos, you're being at least a little naive.

I 100% believe Coach Glassman loves Crossfit and would do anything to keep it "his"....and that means burn it to the ground if it wasn't his anymore.

In the end, it isn't about what I want...its about what the affiliates want.

Do you want to be used as a pawn in a custody battle or do you want to stand back and wait for more information before jumping on a side?
I don't think he's going to last long.


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Re: The couch thread

Post by tzg »

Kind of surprised that lawyer man is talking about this publicly, but it's interesting and, uh, to me suggests that Greg reaching out to the community like this (he reached out first) is kind of a misstep.
I've remained purposefully quiet, both out of legal duty and respect for both of the people involved, Greg and Lauren. As CrossFit, Inc.'s lawyer, I owe the same fiduciary duty to both Greg and Lauren - and my charter is also to represent this amazing company. With that in mind, Daniel, I think it important to correct the implicit assumptions in your claims here - both legal and factual. There is no "deliberate attempt to devalue" the company - your claim asserts what it is trying to prove. First, how is it that anything here has "devalued" the company? And from whose perspective? Look, Lauren and Greg own the stock jointly, not as separate shares. Thus, neither can sell their interest without a court (in this case, the divorce court) intervening to make a determination about value and what the respective parties' interests are worth. Lauren wants to sell her shares to a specific partner, but that affects the other party's remainder after the putative division and sale. The same would be true if Greg wanted to sell his interest (purely hypothetically) to Reebok over Lauren's objection. Whoever 'gets out' first is arguably harming what remains if they get to name a new (and unwanted) partner in their wake for the remaining party to have to work with as co-equal owner.

Anthos has nothing but a conditional promise from Lauren - they know this because if she could sell her shares without a court decree, it would already be done. Arguably, Anthos announcing that it had a "definitive" agreement violated the TRO in place in the divorce case and harmed CF, Inc.'s position with respect to existing and potential business partners. This is, to put it mildly, a messy situation. Lauren has an absolute right to 'cash out' in the context of the divorce settlement and she has my fullest support of her right. Equally compelling is Greg's right to try to buy that interest and maintain his ownership and not take on a partner with whom he has already had dealings and found wanting in many respects as a business partner - both in thought and deed. (Continued in Part 2).
Part 2:
CrossFit, Inc., itself has a very, very compelling interest in trying continue on the trajectory it has been on under Greg's unquestioned leadership for these past years and any new owner would present a degree of uncertainty that makes businesses 'nervous.' Concerns about visions for the company by an untested partner - who has made very public statements about how CF, Inc. should be run in order to maximize revenue - have come to light because of the unique structure of CF's business model that has fueled this growth. Greg has always felt that the affiliates are partners and CF HQ the stewards and protectors of the CrossFit Brand - there's a compelling case that the proposed "(in)definite agreement" ought to be told to business partners - so here we all are.

Ultimately, this is going to get aired in court or courts, probably more than one, and lawyers and representatives for all concerned parties are going to make their respective cases. In the meantime, both sides are trying to "win the hearts and minds" because - if it's not obvious - the lifeblood of CrossFit (the movement and the economic machine) is the Affiliates. The Affiliates could, if they wanted, up and leave en masse tomorrow and associate themselves with a new brand - and leave behind CrossFit, Inc. That has always been the magic here: the affiliates voluntarily entered into this relationship as independent business owners based upon their belief in the strength of CrossFit, the physiology, and CrossFit®, the brand. It's an entirely voluntary transaction. Part of this also includes a belief in the leadership if the man who created this and the team that he picked to help him that became known colloquially as "HQ." We don't always get it right - and Greg has stated this publicly many times - but you can't question that the heart and souls of the people who help to ensure that: new affiliates are brought on, that the WoD gets posted every day (even if you don't like it), that the Boards get moderated, that the Games is an absolute kick-a** event and experience, that the seminars continue to get better and better, that the trademark is defended, that fees get paid, that SMEs run their seminars, that the Journal has content from writers, videographers, editors, that the website is up and running, that the charitable endeavors important to CrossFit continue to move forward and help others, and that Affiliates get to make the lives of their clients better each and every day... Every. Single. Day.

In my world, schizophrenic as it is, I had hoped that my friends and partners would be able to reach an accord. That appeared imminent and then suddenly evaporated. I don't think I'm at liberty to disclose the terms, but I think there were very, very fair offers made to effect a seamless transition and ensure no business relationships of CF, Inc. would be impacted - including the relationship with the Affiliates. Unfortunately, that did not quite get consummated and then the "definitive agreement" was announced by Bryan Kelly.

So, here we are. Does that answer the mail, Daniel? So please stop making declarative statements about business devaluation, CF HQ's intent, and other legal and factual matters that appear to be designed only to cast aspersions, rather than ask an actual question. But hopefully, if the questions were asked with a genuine quest for knowledge, I've answered some of the mail. And done so in a way that I hope explains and respects the interests of two people very dear to me, to whom I owe more than I can repay, as well as a community that I consider myself humbled and honored to serve and be a small part of.
Note that the "definitive agreement" wasn't announced in public (perhaps it was in private to CF, Inc) until after the Glassassination of Anthos.


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Re: The couch thread

Post by Gin Master »

tzg wrote:An amusingly lulzy response posted by Russell Greene of a lawyer friend of his:
"Coach Glassman's unique vision and model for this business has created the meteoric growth and resulting value that exists today, and which is expected to continue growing in the future. The Anthos vision and model are antithetical to and destructive the core precepts from which the value of CrossFit arises. This is clearly demonstrated by the views of the many affiliates who've posted on this thread. Anthos' vision would destroy the affiliate relationship and thereby do great harm to the value of the company, and its value to the 4,000 affiliates worldwide and the 30,000 certified trainers worldwide. Rejecting Anthos preserves and protects the source of the Company's value against the harm that would ensue from the Anthos vision being implemented in CrossFit. That's why their proposal was rejected when it was first presented. Protecting the culture and model - from which the value arises - is protecting the value of the business, and is therefore a performance, not a breach of duty."
No way a lawyer said that. That was most likely a fifth year senior who stuck around for the debate team or a first year law student at a shitty school.


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Re: The couch thread

Post by tzg »

They're diploma factories these days. Just because you're used to dealing with competent people doesn't mean everybody else is.


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Re: The couch thread

Post by Mountebank »

Legal eagles with access to LexisNexis, here's the info on a case filed against @F Inc. by a Lauren Glassman...
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Delaware Case #7717 Lauren Glassman vs. CrossFit Inc. et al. Filed 24 July 2012, Docketed 26 July 2012.

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Re: The couch thread

Post by Dan Martin »

I didn't realize that seeing double was called "unique vision" now.
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Re: The couch thread

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Judge Glasscock? Really?
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Re: The couch thread

Post by Grandpa's Spells »

What a duck says wrote:This sounds pretty spot on, knowing HQ types...
http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/showth ... ost2572244
Take a wild guess about how much salary some of those folks make. I'll give you a hint. High six figures, low seven. straight cash.
I don't think so, scooter. Outside of the owners? Please.
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Re: The couch thread

Post by Cave Canem »

tzg wrote:Another one from the first freethinker I quoted:
That's easy, I want the responsible parties in this transaction (Coach G as 50% equity holder, Lauren Glassman, and Anthos) to handle this in their own, legal realms.

IF there is something the community can do, then HQ needs to lay out a clear plan of action.

Right now they seme like they are riling everyone up in case things don't go their way so that the brand would lose value. And it's working.

Remember, HQ didn't ask the affiliates to calmly band together (or even do it separately) and submit a clear letter of what they wanted to Anthos. They called on the community to drum up as much fervor and outrage as possible with only HQ's side of the story. They were told to post about it on their affiliate sites, on social media, and "get the word out" without actually providing much word.

They didn't present all the facts they had (who the partner was, offer they made to the partner, why it was declined if they knew, and so on) and instead relied on pure scare tactics to get people ready to jump ship and drive down the brand value if things went south for them at HQ.

Almost all of their "Anthos is bad because" information is strictly based on he said, she said information and speculative finger pointing.

HQ pointed out that Bryan Kelly is speaking for another partner at Anthos that is a former Goldman-Sachs exec and how that MUST mean there's someting bad going on. Yet couldn't we also point the finger at HQ for having the Russ's address the community via a discussion board instead of Coach Glassman presenting an official statement on the site from the get-go?

Russel Berger has hinted that since Bryan Kelly's wife is an exec at LuLuLemon that its obvious they're up to no good and that LuLuLemon has been plotting to get a piece of the pie all along. Yet again, baseless speculation touted as clear motivations.

So what I WANT to happen is for HQ, Anthos, and Lauren to handle this between themselves and give the community true, factual, and verifiable infromation instead of speculation and fear.

Since that won't happen, I'd settle for them cutting out the scare tactics and stop using the community as a bargaining pawn.

And if you think you aren't being used (at least in part) to drive down the value potential of the company for Anthos, you're being at least a little naive.

I 100% believe Coach Glassman loves Crossfit and would do anything to keep it "his"....and that means burn it to the ground if it wasn't his anymore.

In the end, it isn't about what I want...its about what the affiliates want.

Do you want to be used as a pawn in a custody battle or do you want to stand back and wait for more information before jumping on a side?
I don't think he's going to last long.
He is now being moderated and anticipates banishment.
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Re: The couch thread

Post by Testiclaw »

God damn, Chris Mason is such a fucking tool.
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Re: The couch thread

Post by Testiclaw »

Greg stands for improving peoples lives and snubs his nose at making huge profits because this would not be in the best interest of our community.
I love the @fit community when they drop gems like this.
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Re: The couch thread

Post by Jay »

Testiclaw wrote:
I love the @fit community when they drop gems like this.
They are so naive and stupid

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Re: The couch thread

Post by Jay »

Grandpa's Spells wrote: I don't think so, scooter. Outside of the owners? Please.
You never know man. Do you think that type of insane loyalty comes cheap?? Money talks my man. It's a cult but people are going to want to get paid

If the books are all fucked up this drama will escalate into some awesome stuff.


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Re: The couch thread

Post by TerryB »

edited, i'm dumb
Last edited by TerryB on Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The couch thread

Post by Grandpa's Spells »

Jay wrote:
Grandpa's Spells wrote: I don't think so, scooter. Outside of the owners? Please.
You never know man. Do you think that type of insane loyalty comes cheap?? Money talks my man. It's a cult but people are going to want to get paid
This is the equivalent of the 500-700 lb. deadlift claim. If you think you can't buy the clowns on the HQ payroll for WELL UNDER $250k/pop, you are a crazy person. The idea that people other than the Glassmans are pulling down $750k+ is blatant stupidity.
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Re: The couch thread

Post by Shapecharge »

Just out of curiosity what's the HQ income stream other that affiliate fees and certs/seminars? Is there anything else? Something from Reebok?


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Re: The couch thread

Post by Protobuilder »

Grandpa's Spells wrote:
Jay wrote:
Grandpa's Spells wrote: I don't think so, scooter. Outside of the owners? Please.
You never know man. Do you think that type of insane loyalty comes cheap?? Money talks my man. It's a cult but people are going to want to get paid
This is the equivalent of the 500-700 lb. deadlift claim. If you think you can't buy the clowns on the HQ payroll for WELL UNDER $250k/pop, you are a crazy person. The idea that people other than the Glassmans are pulling down $750k+ is blatant stupidity.
Yeah, the rest of the post was believable but no way that they are passing out that kind of cash.
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Re: The couch thread

Post by Jay »

Who says 250k? 6 figures is 100k.

Plus do you have any idea what Glassman makes off @fit? I can assure you it's well over 6 figures. Well over.


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Re: The couch thread

Post by TerryB »

Jay wrote:Plus do you have any idea what Glassman makes off @fit? I can assure you it's well over 6 figures. Well over.
*sniffsniff*

it makes me all teary eyed, thinking back just a few years, when Glassman was just your average failure at life, ripping off John Jesse, exploiting hot chick athletes, and spouting pure bullshit on the Internet, while his physicist father wondered why ol' Greggy couldn't get his act together...

and look at him now! "I made it, pop! I finally made it!!!"
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Re: The couch thread

Post by Pinky »

Jay wrote:Who says 250k? 6 figures is 100k.
I know that different people might have different ideas of what "high" six figures is, but it's never below 250k.
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Re: The couch thread

Post by Cave Canem »

Comment 1;
I have a question for the lawyers here, and perhaps for everyone involved as an affiliate to seriously think about.

What I've taken away from this thread is: in an attempt to protect the interests of one of the owners, as well as the culture of Crossfit, HQ Staff, along with Coach Glassman, are engaging in a deliberate attempt to devalue the business (in dollar terms) in an attempt to poison the well vis-à-vis Lauren Glassman's attempt to sell her 50% to a private equity firm.

How is this not either a breach of Greg Glassman's fiduciary duties or at the very least tortious interference?
Sane, honest question from a reasonable person's perspective.

Comment 2
Addressing something else: Jesse, thanks for the support. The replies to his posts following mine are a bit unsettling. The insinuation that because he is calling for transparency and asking the community to wait for all the facts before making a judgement somehow indicates he somehow doesn't have the best interests of Crossfit at heart is galling.

If the goal of this conversation is education and information, this is not the way to go about it. If the goal is unhinged groupthink, well, I guess we're already there.
This was in defense of another poster asking for more transparency.

Rapid rabid response from your favorite moderator;
This is your second post of insult and insinuation. Could you please tell us whether you're trolling and baiting, or if you're actually a genuine and honest individual who just "accidentally" keeps coming across as a troll?

If the former, please try harder not to use such hostile language ("unhinged groupthink", "HQ Staff, along with Coach Glassman, are engaging in a deliberate attempt to devalue the business (in dollar terms) in an attempt to poison the well vis-à-vis Lauren Glassman's attempt to sell her 50% to a private equity firm. How is this not either a breach of Greg Glassman's fiduciary duties or at the very least tortious interference?").

If the latter, we'll happily show you the door.
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