Brief praise of jogging

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Grandpa's Spells
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Brief praise of jogging

Post by Grandpa's Spells » Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:32 pm

This is one of those things that I always hear the benefit of but generally don' t do, since when I ran in my teens/20's as part of other stuff it didn't seem to do much.

As part of generally focusing on overall health, I started the C25K running program. It's a progressive run/jog program that leads up to running 5K.

Aside from the annoyances of adapting to longer running sessions, I've found the following:

1. Less back stiffness/pain
2. Less shoulder stiffness (surprising)
3. Elevated mood
4. Suppressed appetite

I did something similar in my 30's and didn't really notice much. In my teens-to-mid 20's running was a regular enough thing in sports training and I was good enough at it that I didn't notice any change whether I did it or not. At 45 the difference is pretty real. I'm going to follow the program to completion but then do 2 mile runs a few times a week while trying to improve swimming.
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Re: Brief praise of jogging

Post by nafod » Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:49 pm

Cool

Since you are spinning back up, I'd recommend using the pose style of running (don't heel strike). Hard to switch to later. Easier on the back and knees.
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Re: Brief praise of jogging

Post by Grandpa's Spells » Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:06 pm

I associated that with the CFE crowd so I wouldn’t have checked this out otherwise. Thanks for heads up.
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Re: Brief praise of jogging

Post by Alfred_E._Neuman » Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:12 pm

Second the Pose or other "natural" running style, but wouldn't sweat a forefoot/heal landing. Just focus on foot landing under your hips rather than "reaching" and get your cadence up over 170 total footfalls/minute and everything will fall into place.
Make any changes in running form gradually.
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Re: Brief praise of jogging

Post by Sangoma » Mon Dec 02, 2019 7:30 pm

You may want to check Chi running as well.
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Re: Brief praise of jogging

Post by Dunn » Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:26 am

Alfred_E._Neuman wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:12 pm
Second the Pose or other "natural" running style, but wouldn't sweat a forefoot/heal landing. Just focus on foot landing under your hips rather than "reaching" and get your cadence up over 170 total footfalls/minute and everything will fall into place.
Make any changes in running form gradually.
Yeah. Solid advice here.

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Re: Brief praise of jogging

Post by Alfred_E._Neuman » Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:01 am

Dunn wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:26 am
Alfred_E._Neuman wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:12 pm
Second the Pose or other "natural" running style, but wouldn't sweat a forefoot/heal landing. Just focus on foot landing under your hips rather than "reaching" and get your cadence up over 170 total footfalls/minute and everything will fall into place.
Make any changes in running form gradually.
Yeah. Solid advice here.
Wife and I went down the Pose rabbit hole when it first got popular. My calves were so sore after doing too much too soon that I could barely walk for a few days.
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Re: Brief praise of jogging

Post by Turdacious » Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:27 am

Grandpa's Spells wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:32 pm
Suppressed appetite
This is an underrated benefit IMO. I find it holds true even on runs of 6-10 miles.

IMHO one of the best possible companions to running is the old Foundation Training 12 minute lower back routine. Especially if you do it in shoes, it's magic manna for high mileage knees.
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Re: Brief praise of jogging

Post by Grandpa's Spells » Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:02 am

Alfred_E._Neuman wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:12 pm
get your cadence up over 170 total footfalls/minute and everything will fall into place.
This was extremely effective today. Easier to pace breathing at that rate and HR was several BPM lower. Thanks for heads up. I'm on a treadmill because it's December in Chicago, so keeping the feet under hips is kind of a given for me, but upping steps per minute from 160 to 175+ changes the game.
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Re: Brief praise of jogging

Post by Fat Cat » Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:23 am

Running is fun, I’m not surprised you enjoy it. Moving around outside is generally pleasurable.
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Re: Brief praise of jogging

Post by Grandpa's Spells » Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:24 pm

Fat Cat wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:23 am
Running is fun, I’m not surprised you enjoy it.
JME, but the adaptation from not running at all to running can be pretty unpleasant, which is why it's handy to follow a decent beginner's program for the first couple months. What feel like relatively minor changes in pace can change a run from easy to DNF/injured.
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Re: Brief praise of jogging

Post by Bennyonesix1 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:18 pm

The high strides per minute is great advice but I'm very tall and 170+ is not gonna work for me. 155-160 moves contact point where I need it.

Also, Van Aaken understood everything long ago. Run a ton, run easy and get skinny af

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Re: Brief praise of jogging

Post by Fat Cat » Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:34 pm

Grandpa's Spells wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:24 pm
Fat Cat wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:23 am
Running is fun, I’m not surprised you enjoy it.
JME, but the adaptation from not running at all to running can be pretty unpleasant, which is why it's handy to follow a decent beginner's program for the first couple months. What feel like relatively minor changes in pace can change a run from easy to DNF/injured.
No I completely agree. I didn't bother to offer advice because it seems like you're on the right track with a progressive plan.
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Re: Brief praise of jogging

Post by Kirk » Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:32 pm

I hate running. I've got about 1800 miles of it done so far this year. I want to set a personal best for # of miles this year then I'm going to mix running and cycling next year. I've already bought a bicycle... I think I might like running more if I was skinny.

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Re: Brief praise of jogging

Post by Fat Cat » Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:09 am

Why do it if you hate it? Your prior medical issues aside, there's easier ways to meet your health goals. In fact, there's not a lot of information that correlates running and longevity.
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Re: Brief praise of jogging

Post by Kirk » Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:45 am

I don't really hate it although I don't like treadmill running or running in the dark and it's difficult to avoid one of those options during this time of year.

The thing that has kept me doing it is the sheer convenience of it. Other things match it but, for me, nothing beats it in that regard. It also has the benefit of allowing me to zone out (or get into the zone, depending on how you look at it) so that I can motor along for a couple hours and barely notice the time passing.

I'd like to do other things now like the cycling and likely some weighted walking/hiking (I've got a 40lb vest).

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Re: Brief praise of jogging

Post by Shafpocalypse Now » Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:58 pm

Pose and Chi Running are very similar fwiw

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Re: Brief praise of jogging

Post by Shafpocalypse Now » Fri Dec 06, 2019 4:00 pm

Another good resource is Andrew Read's Run Strong book.

He goes into debunking a lot of the 'chi' and 'pose' stuff, although you may find that if you are just getting back into it, it's worth it. What the 'on the toes' style of running does is shift stresses.

But his break in running program, which is probably detailed on here somewhere, is very good.

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Re: Brief praise of jogging

Post by syaigh » Fri Dec 06, 2019 4:21 pm

Jogging on pavement kills my knees, but trails feel pretty good and if I have a good podcast to listen to, I find that jogging on the treadmill at a slight incline (1-2) actually feels pretty good, ie, no post jogging joint soreness.
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Re: Brief praise of jogging

Post by Sangoma » Sat Dec 07, 2019 3:05 am

Shafpocalypse Now wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 4:00 pm
Another good resource is Andrew Read's Run Strong book.

He goes into debunking a lot of the 'chi' and 'pose' stuff, although you may find that if you are just getting back into it, it's worth it. What the 'on the toes' style of running does is shift stresses.

But his break in running program, which is probably detailed on here somewhere, is very good.
Some time ago I hurt my lower back, and it took good 4-5 months for it to get better. During that time I went to the beach. On the way back to the car, barefoot, every step on the concrete was hurting my back. I changed my step, instead of landing on the heel I started landing on the forward half of my sole. It wasn't hurting anymore.

It makes perfect sense - the arch of the foot seems to be designed as the perfect shock absorber. Padded shoes taught us to land squarely on the heel. We don't walk much, and the impact during walking is not that significant. During running though the impact is quite strong and is repeated many times, and some force will be transferred to the hips, knees and back. So POSE way of foot landing makes sense for injury prevention.
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Re: Brief praise of jogging

Post by newguy » Sat Dec 07, 2019 5:10 am

Andrew Read's Run/Walk program
https://www.wholelifechallenge.com/the- ... -13-weeks/

Really, really good program. I think.

The eccentric calf work helped me a lot.

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Re: Brief praise of jogging

Post by aussie luke » Sun Dec 08, 2019 2:21 pm

newguy wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 5:10 am
Andrew Read's Run/Walk program
https://www.wholelifechallenge.com/the- ... -13-weeks/

Really, really good program. I think.

The eccentric calf work helped me a lot.
Was going to post this but you beat me to it.

This plan got me from absolutely zero to running 30-45 mins near daily, injury free, and then on to four reasonable half marathons (1:45).

Best two things I did when I first started was 1) always run only on grass - up until the point I was running 10 minute intervals, and 2) foam roll or stick roller (better) my calves and shin muscles before every run

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Re: Brief praise of jogging

Post by Alfred_E._Neuman » Sun Dec 08, 2019 3:38 pm

Running on grass is one of the most overlooked keys to building mileage without beating yourself up. We're super lucky that the city bought an children's home property right by our house when it closed down to keep it out of developer's hands. It's got several large buildings and a gym, along with several small houses that the older kids lived in. All of it situated on mostly open fields and some woods. The HS built their home XC course in the fields and now I have a 1.5 mile grass loop to run less than a 5 minute walk from my front door.

I try to run at the track once or twice a week to be on the rubber surface, on the XC course for my base miles any time it's not muddy, and on the pavement just enough to keep the "feel" of running on the road. Pounding the asphalt or concrete is crazy hard on the muscles and joints.
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Re: Brief praise of jogging

Post by Grandpa's Spells » Sun Dec 08, 2019 7:11 pm

newguy wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 5:10 am
Andrew Read's Run/Walk program
https://www.wholelifechallenge.com/the- ... -13-weeks/

Really, really good program. I think.

The eccentric calf work helped me a lot.
This looks good, but it’s basically advocating a 45 year old starting out keep HR to 130 BPM. Even going super slow that seems challenging.
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Re: Brief praise of jogging

Post by newguy » Sun Dec 08, 2019 9:33 pm

Grandpa's Spells wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 7:11 pm
newguy wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 5:10 am
Andrew Read's Run/Walk program
https://www.wholelifechallenge.com/the- ... -13-weeks/

Really, really good program. I think.

The eccentric calf work helped me a lot.
This looks good, but it’s basically advocating a 45 year old starting out keep HR to 130 BPM. Even going super slow that seems challenging.
It is challenging.....but I think of it less as a strict 130 BPM and more of a keep it an easy and light effort.

The first week is 1:00 jog/4:00 walk. You do that 6 times for a total of 30 minutes. You should be able to keep things light and easy for a minute.

If not...just keep the intervals at 1:00 jog/4:00 walk until it is light and easy. Instead of upping the jog to 2:00 the next week, add two intervals.

Until you can jog a minute light and easy....you don't need to jog more than a minute. And once you can, move of to the 2:00. If it ends up taking you 6 months instead of 3 to get to sixty minutes that' completely fine. Going from a rough minute to 60 straight in half a year is more than acceptable progress.

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