Generalised muscle aches

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Sangoma
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Re: Generalised muscle aches

Post by Sangoma » Sat Oct 15, 2016 6:28 am

Ramping up to a strong single/double actually feels quite good - I tried it during my last session. I see how it allows to reduce the volume and percentages. I felt fresh at the end, rather than tired or worked up. My only problem is to find the time for more frequency. I am guessing I am not alone in this predicament.
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Re: Generalised muscle aches

Post by SubClaw » Sat Oct 15, 2016 4:47 pm

Sangoma wrote:Ramping up to a strong single/double actually feels quite good - I tried it during my last session. I see how it allows to reduce the volume and percentages. I felt fresh at the end, rather than tired or worked up. My only problem is to find the time for more frequency. I am guessing I am not alone in this predicament.
If I may...

Since you are not trying to be the strongest motherfucker alive, maybe you would be better served trying a much moderate approach: just follow the lead of Holland Oates, Mickey O'Neil or Dunn and become moderately stronger, injury and pain free, sporting a powerful cardio engine.

For someone who doesn't really pursue strength goals, Easy Strength, PttP o even Wendler's 5/3/1 variation 'Not Doing Jackshit' (just do the main 5/3/1 lifts, no accessories, plus cardio) might be your ticket to success.

Just my two cents.

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Re: Generalised muscle aches

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Sat Oct 15, 2016 5:12 pm

Yeah Smet. Why not change your goals. I mean when shit gets hard, just do something else.

Uhhhh yeah. That is bottom tier Igx nihilism at its finest. Mad respect to all three of those chaps who's training has at times been a model of moderation and restraint and steady athletic improvement. But none of those fellows are focused on getter stronger, nor has a single one of them pursued the upper tiers of what they are capable of. That's fine if you are a mountain biker or a GS competitor....not if your goal is the become stronger in an absolute sense.
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Re: Generalised muscle aches

Post by SubClaw » Sat Oct 15, 2016 5:17 pm

Blaidd Drwg wrote:Yeah Smet. Why not change your goals. I mean when shit gets hard, just do something else.

Uhhhh yeah. That is bottom tier Igx nihilism at its finest. Mad respect to all three of those chaps who's training has at times been a model of moderation and restraint and steady athletic improvement. But none of those fellows are focused on getter stronger, nor has a single one of them pursued the upper tiers of what they are capable of. That's fine if you are a mountain biker or a GS competitor....not if your goal is the become stronger in an absolute sense.
Agreed.

But I kinda "sense" that Smet just want to look good naked and be stronger than his peers (who don't lift at all). Maybe I'm wrong, but I can't recall him saying his goal is a twice bodyweight squat (a respectable but modest strength goal). Not everyone here is a meathead (not that's anything wrong with it).

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Re: Generalised muscle aches

Post by Boris » Sun Oct 16, 2016 10:47 pm

Blaidd Drwg wrote:Yeah Smet. Why not change your goals. I mean when shit gets hard, just do something else.

Uhhhh yeah. That is bottom tier Igx nihilism at its finest.
To be fair, does even Smet know what his goals are? I think I recall hearing 'look good nekkid' and 'get stronger' somewhere, but something more specific than 'stop aching' would probably be helpful.

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Re: Generalised muscle aches

Post by Sangoma » Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:59 am

SubClaw wrote:
Sangoma wrote:Ramping up to a strong single/double actually feels quite good - I tried it during my last session. I see how it allows to reduce the volume and percentages. I felt fresh at the end, rather than tired or worked up. My only problem is to find the time for more frequency. I am guessing I am not alone in this predicament.
If I may...

Since you are not trying to be the strongest motherfucker alive, maybe you would be better served trying a much moderate approach: just follow the lead of Holland Oates, Mickey O'Neil or Dunn and become moderately stronger, injury and pain free, sporting a powerful cardio engine.

For someone who doesn't really pursue strength goals, Easy Strength, PttP o even Wendler's 5/3/1 variation 'Not Doing Jackshit' (just do the main 5/3/1 lifts, no accessories, plus cardio) might be your ticket to success.

Just my two cents.
To be completely frank, I don't do well on Easy Strength, mostly because of my amateurish mentality. I need to feel that I am doing something hard(er) at least some of the time - to keep being excited about lifting - and doing easy loads all the time kills my enthusiasm. I also like to rotate lifts from session to session.

You are right, and just getting stronger and getting some cardio in is pretty much going to cover my goals. I still tease my imagination with 2xBW squat though. Coming back to the title of the thread - chronic muscle pains - I think BD's recommendation to increase the frequency is spot on.
Last edited by Sangoma on Mon Oct 17, 2016 4:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Generalised muscle aches

Post by Sangoma » Mon Oct 17, 2016 4:04 am

Double post.
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Re: Generalised muscle aches

Post by TerryB » Wed Oct 19, 2016 3:00 am

Blaidd Drwg wrote:Yeah Smet. Why not change your goals. I mean when shit gets hard, just do something else.
Smet is nothing if not consistent.
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Re: Generalised muscle aches

Post by Sangoma » Wed Oct 19, 2016 3:55 am

I am consistently inconsistent. Predictably stochastic.
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Re: Generalised muscle aches

Post by powerlifter54 » Wed Oct 19, 2016 3:01 pm

Sangoma wrote:
1.To be completely frank, I don't do well on Easy Strength, mostly because of my amateurish mentality. I need to feel that I am doing something hard(er) at least some of the time - to keep being excited about lifting - and doing easy loads all the time kills my enthusiasm. I also like to rotate lifts from session to session.

2. You are right, and just getting stronger and getting some cardio in is pretty much going to cover my goals. I still tease my imagination with 2xBW squat though. Coming back to the title of the thread - chronic muscle pains - I think BD's recommendation to increase the frequency is spot on.
1. There is a huge gap between easy loads and hard(er).But it really also depends on what easy, hard, or hard(er) means to you. If you are girinding (a new word i invented inspired by giriveks) that last rep and/or you know in your heart getting another rep in that set is not likely, you are pushing it too hard.This level of effort is not sustainable. You need to first and foremost "keep one in the tank". If you are doing sets of 5 and the last rep is suddenly looking insurmountable, rack it and do a second set of 4. 8 reps at a working weight is always going to make you stronger than 5. Louie once said people who want to get strong need to stop reading bodybuilding magazines. That last rep is WAY overrated. That is not when the muscle grows, and is often when the muscle tears. YMMV. Easy strength, warmup every day, and even observing old school Russian Oly training is about learning to know and then do what is in your realm of possibility today so you can do it again tomorrow. One of the big things about frequent training is the obvious, that you can't do the same volume of work, initially at least, as you can with 2-4 days of rest for that lift or bodypart.

2. Frequency, which is about spreading your current volume over more days, at least to start, is about less tearing down in each workout and gaining efficiencies through neurological improvement in your inter and intramuscular coordination. If you ever wondered (i did) how the Eastern bloc lifters squatted everyday (they all didn't), it was often because they didn't backsquat everyday, they didn't do a lot more than 10-20 working reps in a session if that, and they were basing their percents off their max C+J leaving them with very submaximal squats but if you can front squat 106% of your C+J max on any given day you may not need to out squat a powerlifter, and they used two sessions a day. One of the coolest things i have tried is the Sheiko bench/squat/bench days and squat/bench/squat days. A second session of a lift after another lift yields some amazing things.

Lagniappe:In my PL training my goal was a PR in a training lift each month for each of the 3 lifts. The rest of the workouts were there to make me ready for that PR. Every workout doesn't need to be "hard", but it does need to either move you toward your goals or not handicap you from getting there. On days where you are feeling it go up, but within reason on days you are not all there get some work in and go eat.
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Re: Generalised muscle aches

Post by WildGorillaMan » Wed Oct 19, 2016 4:30 pm

^So much troo knowledges there
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Re: Generalised muscle aches

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Wed Oct 19, 2016 7:08 pm

powerlifter54 wrote:
Sangoma wrote:
1.To be completely frank, I don't do well on Easy Strength, mostly because of my amateurish mentality. I need to feel that I am doing something hard(er) at least some of the time - to keep being excited about lifting - and doing easy loads all the time kills my enthusiasm. I also like to rotate lifts from session to session.

2. You are right, and just getting stronger and getting some cardio in is pretty much going to cover my goals. I still tease my imagination with 2xBW squat though. Coming back to the title of the thread - chronic muscle pains - I think BD's recommendation to increase the frequency is spot on.
1. There is a huge gap between easy loads and hard(er).But it really also depends on what easy, hard, or hard(er) means to you. If you are girinding (a new word i invented inspired by giriveks) that last rep and/or you know in your heart getting another rep in that set is not likely, you are pushing it too hard.This level of effort is not sustainable. You need to first and foremost "keep one in the tank". If you are doing sets of 5 and the last rep is suddenly looking insurmountable, rack it and do a second set of 4. 8 reps at a working weight is always going to make you stronger than 5. Louie once said people who want to get strong need to stop reading bodybuilding magazines. That last rep is WAY overrated. That is not when the muscle grows, and is often when the muscle tears. YMMV. Easy strength, warmup every day, and even observing old school Russian Oly training is about learning to know and then do what is in your realm of possibility today so you can do it again tomorrow. One of the big things about frequent training is the obvious, that you can't do the same volume of work, initially at least, as you can with 2-4 days of rest for that lift or bodypart.

2. Frequency, which is about spreading your current volume over more days, at least to start, is about less tearing down in each workout and gaining efficiencies through neurological improvement in your inter and intramuscular coordination. If you ever wondered (i did) how the Eastern bloc lifters squatted everyday (they all didn't), it was often because they didn't backsquat everyday, they didn't do a lot more than 10-20 working reps in a session if that, and they were basing their percents off their max C+J leaving them with very submaximal squats but if you can front squat 106% of your C+J max on any given day you may not need to out squat a powerlifter, and they used two sessions a day. One of the coolest things i have tried is the Sheiko bench/squat/bench days and squat/bench/squat days. A second session of a lift after another lift yields some amazing things.

Lagniappe:In my PL training my goal was a PR in a training lift each month for each of the 3 lifts. The rest of the workouts were there to make me ready for that PR. Every workout doesn't need to be "hard", but it does need to either move you toward your goals or not handicap you from getting there. On days where you are feeling it go up, but within reason on days you are not all there get some work in and go eat.
If you grok this, you're done with Ebooks.
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Re: Generalised muscle aches

Post by Sangoma » Wed Oct 19, 2016 9:38 pm

Jack, I have been injured enough times to understand - eventually - that pushing hard every session is not productive. At some stage it was simply ridiculous: my training ran in cycles - get injured, take time off, get back to training slowly, get stronger, push for the new PR, get injured, repeat. Currently my close to max effort is probably 7-8 on PRE scale, not higher. It took me a long time to be able to have a session with very low volume and low percentages. Say, 50% 3x3 for couple of lifts and call it quits. I just feel good getting to something heavier than my average, at least from time to time.

My biggest problem is finding time. I work long hours, and by the time I get home I am often too tired to train or life creeps up - my wife wants to spend time with me, dinner etc. So during the week I often cannot get to train, and compensate with longer sessions on weekends. I would definitely prefer short frequent sessions. I don't do well lifting in the mornings, but with low volume and intensity maybe I should reconsider it - short maintenance sessions, one-two lifts, ten reps total. For this I probably wouldn't need an elaborate warm-up and could fit the whole affair in half hour slot.
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Re: Generalised muscle aches

Post by powerlifter54 » Wed Oct 19, 2016 10:57 pm

Yes, i think morning brief workouts, with lifts that are very well adapted to being warmups when done cold, like KB swing or snatch, leg lifts, single leg KB dls, then pick a lift you like, for you it seems that is squat, trap bar DL, or incline press. Work up quickly in that to a moderate effort double or triple. Throw in a set of dips and pullups if you want then go to work. Do that 3-4 weekdays, and save your longer workouts for weekends.

Lifting programs are usually a lot more about fitting it into your life than just about any other issue.
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Re: Generalised muscle aches

Post by Sangoma » Thu Oct 20, 2016 12:07 am

powerlifter54 wrote: Lifting programs are usually a lot more about fitting it into your life than just about any other issue.
Couldn't be more true. Thanks for the advice.
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Re: Generalised muscle aches

Post by johno » Thu Oct 20, 2016 5:11 pm

Great thread. Thanks guys.
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Are full of passionate intensity.

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Re: Generalised muscle aches

Post by Boris » Sun Oct 23, 2016 2:43 am

I know I've offered this suggestion before to whoever will heed it, but here it is - learn how to be satisfied with and even enjoy "punch the clock" sessions... Probably more than half of the times I "train" are simply putting in the time - call it making a minimum payment, if you will.

I get that you're busy, but an EDT pairing for example takes EXACTLY 15 minutes if you're following Charles' plan. I do chin-ups on the minute fairly regularly and that takes me 10 minutes or less most days and less than 20 on all but .00001% of days...

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Re: Generalised muscle aches

Post by Sangoma » Sun Oct 23, 2016 4:16 am

Thanks, Boris. The problem is not time per se, but time when I am capable of and interested in lifting. After 12 hour working day it's not so much, that's why I am going to try squeeze some training in the mornings. Training template wise I am fairly happy with what I am doing right now, and my morning sessions are definitely going to be punching the clock.
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Re: Generalised muscle aches

Post by Boris » Sun Oct 23, 2016 1:45 pm

Sangoma wrote:Thanks, Boris. The problem is not time per se, but time when I am capable of and interested in lifting. After 12 hour working day it's not so much, that's why I am going to try squeeze some training in the mornings. Training template wise I am fairly happy with what I am doing right now, and my morning sessions are definitely going to be punching the clock.
Most of the time I 'train', I don't want to. Usually it's after 9pm and I'm like "Damn, I gotta do something." so I'll do some micro band work or push-ups in the dining area while my wife and kid are winding down their day.

As competitive swimmers say, the hardest part of the work out is getting in the pool.

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Re: Generalised muscle aches

Post by WildGorillaMan » Sun Oct 23, 2016 1:59 pm

Having just had a run of near-term PRs in recent weeks, I'm old enough and wise enough now to know that instead of doubling down and chasing new PRs I need to commit to just punching the clock in the gym, and doing my assigned sets and reps, getting in the work, and "dominating the gettable weights." New PRs will happen when they happen.

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Re: Generalised muscle aches

Post by Sangoma » Mon Oct 31, 2016 6:52 am

Following the recommendations of the respected brethren I changed my training to mostly punching the clock slash easy strength style. Been doing it for the last week, and on the weekend ramped up in squat and incline bench, sort of. The plan is to continue lifting easy - around 70% 1RM - and frequently for the next two weeks (increase the load only if it feels really light) and then try ramp up again. Curious to see what happens.
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Re: Generalised muscle aches

Post by Boris » Wed Nov 02, 2016 3:54 pm

I predict you'll get bored. Being bored is not always a bad thing.

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Re: Generalised muscle aches

Post by climber511 » Wed Nov 02, 2016 5:00 pm

It doesn't really matter how you workout - if you are over 40 you are probably going to have general muscle aches and pains - from couch potato to world champ at whatever. Over 50 if you don't - you are one lucky son of a gun. Over 60 it's pretty much a guarantee. Certainly you can make it worse with bad choices but I figure waking up and wiggling around to see what hurts today is just what I do in the morning as I try to get out of bed.

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Re: Generalised muscle aches

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Wed Nov 02, 2016 5:11 pm

Boris wrote:I predict you'll get bored. Being bored is not always a bad thing.

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Re: Generalised muscle aches

Post by SubClaw » Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:15 pm

Boris wrote:I predict you'll get bored. Being bored is not always a bad thing.
Boring is good. If I have to psyche myself up to train I tend to skip more sessions. Mindless training, punch the clock workouts are much easier to complete. 'Mushin' for the motherfucking win!

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