Fast or slow?

Stick to training related posts.

Moderators: Dux, seeahill

Post Reply
JimZipCode
Top
Posts: 1394
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 2:48 pm

Fast or slow?

Post by JimZipCode » Wed Dec 07, 2016 10:31 pm

Pavel wrote this in PTTP:
(page 68)
Pavel wrote:“there are many reasons to lift and lower your weights slowly: three to five seconds on the way up and three to five on the way down is the Power to the People! rule. First, muscular tension drops off as the velocity increases. Considering that tension is what we are after, it is a dumb idea. Just note that the athletes with the most spectacular muscular definition are those from sports requiring slow exertions, such as gymnastics.”
Some guy named Jack wrote this on T-nation:
https://www.t-nation.com/training/perio ... -and-bolts
Jack wrote:“I advocate always driving the bar up as fast as possible on the concentric portion of a lift.”
Who do I believe? The guy who lied about his Master of Sports rating, or the incredibly weak performer?

Trying to drive as fast as possible makes the most intuitive sense to me – with the understanding that you're not trying to jerk the bar (unless that's the lift you're doing). And of course the eccentric is done in a smooth & controlled manner. It does make sense to me to do the eccentric in 3-5 secs, if it's a weight you can handle. But lift slow?
“War is the remedy our enemies have chosen. Other simple remedies were within their choice. You know it and they know it, but they wanted war, and I say let us give them all they want.”
― William Tecumseh Sherman

User avatar
Testiclaw
Top
Posts: 1844
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2010 2:30 pm
Location: Between the thighs, taint, and retractable claw.

Re: Fast or slow?

Post by Testiclaw » Wed Dec 07, 2016 10:37 pm

Depends.

Wenning does a lot of tempo work, and I've started seeing it show up from other lifters. Deliberately making the eccentric, concentric, or both, very slow.

Sometimes he will keep the eccentric painfully slow, but really drive the concentric as much as he can.

Outside of specific goals by specific methods, I'd say for the average lifter doing average lifts, lower the weight smoothly with as much speed as can use while maintaining bar path, tension, control, and whatnot, but try to drive it back as quickly as you can.

Some of us will need to lower weights a bit slower just because that's what makes us more comfortable. As a general rule, I usually tell my lifters that they should be in control and able to stop the lift at any point, and not just drop.

On a side note: I've found that a lot of people, when benching or squatting, will explode out of the bottom but let themselves coast to the finish after that. It makes a huge difference if they try to accelerate the bar all the way to the finish. Starr once said something about making plates rattle at the top.
My cousin is a redheaded german-mexican, we call him a beanerschnitzel

Blaidd Drwg
Lifetime IGer
Posts: 19089
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 5:39 pm

Re: Fast or slow?

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Wed Dec 07, 2016 10:40 pm

I can only speak to lifting for strength and power. Lower deliberately, lift as fast as you can control.
"He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that." JS Mill

Blaidd Drwg
Lifetime IGer
Posts: 19089
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 5:39 pm

Re: Fast or slow?

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Wed Dec 07, 2016 10:44 pm

Testiclaw wrote: Starr once said something about making plates rattle at the top.
I do this...but then noticed some of the younger guys emulating it and popping the bar off their back, losing tightness on the bench, getting over their heels on the DL because they were trying to put too big of a stamp on it.
"He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that." JS Mill

User avatar
WildGorillaMan
Sergeant Commanding
Posts: 9951
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:01 pm

Re: Fast or slow?

Post by WildGorillaMan » Wed Dec 07, 2016 11:14 pm

Blaidd Drwg wrote:
Testiclaw wrote: Starr once said something about making plates rattle at the top.
I do this...but then noticed some of the younger guys emulating it and popping the bar off their back, losing tightness on the bench, getting over their heels on the DL because they were trying to put too big of a stamp on it.
As always, people take good ideas and take them too far.
Image
You'll Hurt Your Back

basically I'm Raoul Duke trying to fit into a Philip K. Dick movie remake.

User avatar
Beer Jew
Sgt. Major
Posts: 3280
Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2011 6:35 pm

Re: Fast or slow?

Post by Beer Jew » Thu Dec 08, 2016 8:31 am

Lillebridge pops the bar off his back when he's squatting up to about 650.

User avatar
powerlifter54
Sergeant Commanding
Posts: 7937
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 5:46 pm
Location: TX

Re: Fast or slow?

Post by powerlifter54 » Thu Dec 08, 2016 3:40 pm

JimZipCode wrote: Who do I believe? The guy who lied about his Master of Sports rating, or the incredibly weak performer?

Trying to drive as fast as possible makes the most intuitive sense to me – with the understanding that you're not trying to jerk the bar (unless that's the lift you're doing). And of course the eccentric is done in a smooth & controlled manner. It does make sense to me to do the eccentric in 3-5 secs, if it's a weight you can handle. But lift slow?
lol. seriously almost spit my coffee.

If you are bodybuilding slow up and down is fine. But for strength, besides maybe your first set or two of warmups, you need to lower under control and explode up. Grinding occurs because you are pushing as hard as you can against a heavy weight. It is not because you are trying to recruit every fiber in a mind body connection to cut incredible separation and striations into your targeted muscle group.

In the squat and BP you are stronger, by a lot, at the top of the lift, so adding chains and bands really lets you push hard the whole way, and this is where Hatfield's "Compensatory Acceleration", while correct, didn't work so well with straight weight.

In the DL the strength curve varies by lifter. But if you try to slowly pull a heavy DL you will stop. You need to get it all turned on to get the weight to the top. The lack of lowering in a meet DL changes the game in that lift. In the squat and BP, the Doug Younds of the world in their T shirts armed with 80s drugs lowered like bodybuilders. In todays BP world the raw guys lower faster since a bit of chest sink in is allowed, and in gear you have to lower faster than you want to get the bar to touch. In the squat USAPL single ply guys do some rebound out of the bottom and the high end gear just lover until the suit stops them.

Speed baby.
"Start slowly, then ease off". Tortuga Golden Striders Running Club, Pensacola 1984.

"But even snake wrestling beats life in the cube, for me at least. In measured doses."-Lex

Post Reply