So.. is StrongFirst dying?

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Ripe Turd
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So.. is StrongFirst dying?

Post by Ripe Turd » Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:05 pm

They haven't put out a new product for years... they aren't even competitive with their kettlebell prices.

All their articles are un-original "two most common swing errors", like common, this isn't 2004 anymore.

- S - is the go-to guy on their forums... I bet he isn't even paid to do this job.

Really, I can't believe they have not been able to produce anything original since their creation. Do people still use kettlebells as their main fitness tools? Seems to me, the "tactical" crowd is served a lot better with books like "Tactical Barbell" which emphasize basic barbell movements + LISS and HIIT, with SOME strength-endurance.

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Re: So.. is StrongFirst dying?

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:22 pm

Hopefully.
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Re: So.. is StrongFirst dying?

Post by aussie luke » Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:26 pm

Seems like it to me.

I was into all the crazy kettlebell shit for years until I started running and got a rower and realised it was doing fuck all for my fitness.

Still like my KBs for basic strength work but I don't need a forum or a three year old book for that ...they all seem to be so hung up on the stupid simple and sinister program. I gave up on the forum a year ago.

I had a quick look this week and surprise it was still all the exact same shit - asking -s- for advice on how to swing a heavier kettlebell... are presses better than getups. Fuck me.

All the 'big names' have gone. They all realised what a load of shit it all is.

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Re: So.. is StrongFirst dying?

Post by Grandpa's Spells » Fri Dec 16, 2016 2:57 am

Took a look at the website. There's a shit ton of courses near me taught by a shit ton of "SFG" guys. I'd wager Pavel is comfortable.

Didn't realize Dan John left. What happened?
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Re: So.. is StrongFirst dying?

Post by Shafpocalypse Now » Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:06 am

Rif returned. Must have offered to pay him this time.

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Re: So.. is StrongFirst dying?

Post by Shafpocalypse Now » Fri Dec 16, 2016 4:18 am

Or not. I wonder how tough it was to come back to Pavel, hat in hand.

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Re: So.. is StrongFirst dying?

Post by aussie luke » Fri Dec 16, 2016 5:05 am

Pavel pretty much left too a couple of years ago didn't he?

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Re: So.. is StrongFirst dying?

Post by Shafpocalypse Now » Fri Dec 16, 2016 5:16 am

I think you're right Luke. We got tired of bullshit Soviet secrets cribbed from Thomas Kurz and Mel Siff, exhibit a, the utter disdain Pavel's slow twitch fiber stuff has received, and his interview with Tim Ferris full of discrepancies and counterdictions.

Maybe he just was a dance instructor

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Re: So.. is StrongFirst dying?

Post by aussie luke » Fri Dec 16, 2016 6:24 am

DJ is back with RKC

Thought Rif was with Strength Matters?

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Re: So.. is StrongFirst dying?

Post by Sangoma » Fri Dec 16, 2016 6:48 am

I must say, the interview with Ferris was a bit of a shocker to me. I never heard Pavel speak before, and let's say, he made better impression on me with his writings. I think Shaf is right, "Soviet Secret Tactical Spetznaz" adage has worn off. As have Soviet research revelations for several reasons. First, it's too complex to convey in a podcast or a blog post. Second - there is only that much new in anything. One way or another all coaches in the world are achieving the same thing via black box method, and "revolutionary" explanations - slow fibers, mitochondria, glycogen, fibroblasts and other science stuff - come later. Similar to explaining today why the stock market went up or down yesterday.

I obviously don't know anything about Pavel's reasons of leaving Dragondoor, but straight off the bat it seemed like not a wise decision. Correct me if I am wrong, but as far as I understand it, John Ducane was/is the business head of DD and actually he was the one who got Pavel off the ground. To have a good product is one thing, to actually sell it is quite another. You see evidence for it every fucking day: great restaurant opens up, great food, excellent service and everybody is raving about it. Then, after a year, it disappears. While across the street there is a dodgy Italian place - that has existed for decades - that sells overcooked spaghetti and soggy pizza. Management, baby, way more important than a product.
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Re: So.. is StrongFirst dying?

Post by Koko, Beware » Fri Dec 16, 2016 11:47 am

Blaidd Drwg wrote:Hopefully.
This.
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Re: So.. is StrongFirst dying?

Post by Boris » Fri Dec 16, 2016 5:17 pm

The exodus from RKC starting in 2006 or whatever and then the second wave w. the RKC-lite movement and then SF really soured the whole thing for me. I like a lot of people there and I'm cool w. people having a tribe and making a dollar, but it got ridiculous.

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Re: So.. is StrongFirst dying?

Post by TomFurman » Fri Dec 16, 2016 7:13 pm

RKC with Max Shank, Kavadlo Bros is doing fine. Lots of youthful energy and communication skills.
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Re: So.. is StrongFirst dying?

Post by Shafpocalypse Now » Fri Dec 16, 2016 7:59 pm

"Pavel is not the same as when I met him a decade ago. He has bought into his own hype."

Plus, working for Strong First? Let's say there's a cert in Spain.

7 Days out from cert.
RING RING - Hello Comrade, Pavel would like you to instruct at the cert in Spain. CLICK
Last Minute Tickets to Spain: $2100
5 Days in a Hotel in Spain: $1000
5 Days of food in Spain: $300
5 Days of transport in spain: $300
Total Cost to Teach in Spain: $3700
Reimbursement: $1200
RING RING - Pavel says "Thank you" Comrade - CLICK

The time is coming when nobody is going to want to pay to go and make Pavel a bunch of money, especially since it seems Pavel just shows up to some of these things. It's a shitty business model for everyone but Pavel and maybe his chosen few. I find it exploitative and disgusting that anyone wants to be a part of it.

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Re: So.. is StrongFirst dying?

Post by Shafpocalypse Now » Fri Dec 16, 2016 7:59 pm

And plane ticket prices are kind of lowballed there. Could be double that amount easily.

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Re: So.. is StrongFirst dying?

Post by Shafpocalypse Now » Fri Dec 16, 2016 8:01 pm

The first exodus was all about money, with the sRKCs saying "Pavel, we are not going to work for shit money anymore while you and DuCane pull in tens of thousands of dollars each"....."OK, Bye then"

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Re: So.. is StrongFirst dying?

Post by Koko, Beware » Fri Dec 16, 2016 8:53 pm

I love this inside baseball stuff about kettlebells. Cressey linked something about pitchers throwing weighted balls the other day...how long until STRONG FIRST LEADER ONE suggests a 5 pound kb instead?
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Re: So.. is StrongFirst dying?

Post by Grandpa's Spells » Fri Dec 16, 2016 9:48 pm

Shafpocalypse Now wrote:The time is coming when nobody is going to want to pay to go and make Pavel a bunch of money, especially since it seems Pavel just shows up to some of these things. It's a shitty business model for everyone but Pavel and maybe his chosen few. I find it exploitative and disgusting that anyone wants to be a part of it.
Looking at it from the other side, I'd wager Cotter, Maxwell, etc. would have been extremely hard-pressed to develop an audience as big/fast as they did without riding the DD marketing train. SRKC struck me as paying dues for good coaches to get a nice business platform jump-started. There was a real value proposition there for the SRKC looking towards the future.
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Re: So.. is StrongFirst dying?

Post by WildGorillaMan » Fri Dec 16, 2016 9:49 pm

The news isn't whether StrongFirst is dying, it's why anyone would care?
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Re: So.. is StrongFirst dying?

Post by Shafpocalypse Now » Fri Dec 16, 2016 11:33 pm

Nobody does. Like the AKC/WKC it's a footnote now. Did I call that AKC shit or what?

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Re: So.. is StrongFirst dying?

Post by Boris » Sat Dec 17, 2016 2:45 am

Grandpa's Spells wrote:
Shafpocalypse Now wrote:The time is coming when nobody is going to want to pay to go and make Pavel a bunch of money, especially since it seems Pavel just shows up to some of these things. It's a shitty business model for everyone but Pavel and maybe his chosen few. I find it exploitative and disgusting that anyone wants to be a part of it.
Looking at it from the other side, I'd wager Cotter, Maxwell, etc. would have been extremely hard-pressed to develop an audience as big/fast as they did without riding the DD marketing train. SRKC struck me as paying dues for good coaches to get a nice business platform jump-started. There was a real value proposition there for the SRKC looking towards the future.
Yes and no. Cotter and Maxwell did all right, but I think they would have done all right even without the RKC - they have skills and expertise well beyond kettlebells that appeal to both fitness and MMA markets.

There are plenty of RKC TLs and SRKCs who probably wouldn't say the dollar return was worth it.

I enjoyed the RKC ride and made a lot of great friends, but after assisting in MN and essentially paying a grand+ to work my ass off and be away from my real job and the family for a week, I decided being a part of it was not for me.

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Re: So.. is StrongFirst dying?

Post by odin » Sat Dec 17, 2016 7:47 am

Simple and Sinister is 3 years old, and even then it was just a remix of the program minimum. There is nothing new coming out of there. Plus the approaches pushed there all seem compromises for optimal health, fitness (including strength) or aesthetics.
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Re: So.. is StrongFirst dying?

Post by JimZipCode » Sat Dec 17, 2016 8:52 am

Grandpa's Spells wrote:Took a look at the website. There's a shit ton of courses near me taught by a shit ton of "SFG" guys.
There's a guy at the gym down the street, that my wife & I used to belong to, who is quite good. Vic. My wife took several group classes he taught, and did personal training with him. I took some group classes too, few years ago. The StrongFirst credentials are hanging in his area of the gym, but it's subtle - if you weren't looking for it, would be easy to miss. There's no "comrade" shit or anything.

I wouldn't hesitate to recommend this guy, to anyone looking for group fitness classes. I don't know if he's typical of what SF turns out - I guess I'm saying I find it hard to muster any hate.
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Re: So.. is StrongFirst dying?

Post by aussie luke » Sat Dec 17, 2016 12:42 pm

I was considering taking the SFG instructor cert here in Aus a year or so ago, and even started training for it. My plan was to just get one single piece of paper that would allow me to begin training others kettlebells from my house, and get insurance etc

It turned out that it would basically be worthless for that anyway, and also because the exchange rate was so bad and the cert price was in US dollars it was going to cost me an absolute fucking fortune - so even though the cert was being run in an Australian gym by an Australian SFG, and with the 'master' instructor being a South African guy who would be visiting for the cert, I would have had to pay the US fee at the Aussie rate. I asked them about it to make sure that was correct and maybe they could adjust the fees all things considered. But no.

I am 99% certain the cert didn't actually go ahead in the end anyway. No doubt they didn't have enough fools to cough up for it.

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Re: So.. is StrongFirst dying?

Post by powerlifter54 » Sat Dec 17, 2016 2:24 pm

OK bichos, i am offering an IGx cert. Could care less about paying students, who will be paying $1000 to sit quietly and just listen to the awsomeness. Cell phone recording permit another $500. All of you are invited to instruct on your own dime though, and can gleen helpful tips from my lectures on training cycles for idiots, Trump-Fascist or Fascial release?, and The right Shiner for Brisket vs right for Chicken.

Inputs on your lectures please comrades!
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