Undulating Periodisation

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Polo Tomasi
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Re: Undulating Periodisation

Post by Polo Tomasi » Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:09 pm

This thread is why I come here. Thanks.

Blaidd Drwg
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Re: Undulating Periodization

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:54 pm

powerlifter54 wrote:This past weekend I heard a great concept from a pastor. (Sorry heathens) "experience isn't the best teacher, it is the most brutal teacher. Faith is the best teacher." I learned awful lot from hard experience. And my crashes and burns were often spectacular. But taking on faith things you see like in this thread that we all come to agreement on is a great way to avoid wasting your training efforts and saving yourself humiliation on the platform, race, or field. You will have enough things to work out in your own or your athlete's training so grab the low hanging fruit and keep moving forward.


I call this suspension of disbelief. I tell my folks this all the time. I've seen this movie before. Just follow the plot and suspend your disbelief.
"He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that." JS Mill

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syaigh
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Re: Undulating Periodization

Post by syaigh » Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:43 pm

Blaidd Drwg wrote:
powerlifter54 wrote:This past weekend I heard a great concept from a pastor. (Sorry heathens) "experience isn't the best teacher, it is the most brutal teacher. Faith is the best teacher." I learned awful lot from hard experience. And my crashes and burns were often spectacular. But taking on faith things you see like in this thread that we all come to agreement on is a great way to avoid wasting your training efforts and saving yourself humiliation on the platform, race, or field. You will have enough things to work out in your own or your athlete's training so grab the low hanging fruit and keep moving forward.


I call this suspension of disbelief. I tell my folks this all the time. I've seen this movie before. Just follow the plot and suspend your disbelief.
Truer words never spoken. Everyone these days seems to think that if you can't turn them into a ravening beast in 6 weeks, then your plan doesn't work.
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Boris
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Re: Undulating Periodisation

Post by Boris » Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:25 am

Typed out a long response and then lost it all...

I'll be honest, w. my lifting (PL, KBs, personal goals), all I've ever done was essentially blocks of base-building --> higher intensity work --> taper and peak --> rest and repeat. Obviously, I'm not talking about any kind of elite level performance by any stretch of the imagination, but it has served me okay.

In general, (and greatly simplified) much training for competitive swimming consists of blocks of:
technical refinement/base work --> base building --> higher intensity work/pace training --> taper/peaking

Within the blocks above, the basic emphasis of each workout may look like:
S: off
M: Stroke/IM work
T: Speed
W: Drills/Recovery/LSD
Th: Endurance
F: Race Specific or Recovery
S: Test Sets or competition

Throughout a season (macrocycle), intensity and focus is going to vary throughout a given week (mesocycle), and within a (microcycle). All this probably sounds more way complicated than it really is if you know what the hell you're doing.

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Shafpocalypse Now
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Re: Undulating Periodisation

Post by Shafpocalypse Now » Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:44 am

I honestly dont feel lifter types need a formal annual plan.

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Re: Undulating Periodisation

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:56 am

Shafpocalypse Now wrote:I honestly dont feel lifter types need a formal annual plan.
I feel that. But at the same time, you have confidence in this because you know that if pressed, you could build one. I think knowing how to use a sophisticated tool can give you a great deal of confidence in using the simpler ones.
"He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that." JS Mill

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Shafpocalypse Now
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Re: Undulating Periodisation

Post by Shafpocalypse Now » Thu Jan 12, 2017 3:19 am

IME an annual plan goes off the rails about 5 months in

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powerlifter54
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Re: Undulating Periodisation

Post by powerlifter54 » Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:01 am

"failing to plan is planning to fail", "a plan is there to deviate from", and "no plan survives contact with the enemy."

My military background and Project Management Training taught me this. But my plan was generally to compete 3x a year. And be bigger and stronger at the end of the year and PR my predictive training lifts plus be handling more volume. That is 3x16 week cycles at best. Add in Holidays, injuries, post meet breaks, and work conflicts rarely got many 16 week cycles in. But block 1 and 2 of 4 looked pretty much the same. And 3 and 4 looked similiar except 3 was a peak and 4 was a taper.

When I was younger I mapped out cycles on paper working backward from my goal numbers. At the end I started at what I could do comfortably and tried to push it up to PRs. Then I would realistically set a meet plan. To PR on ME day I had to work my ass off on DE and RE days. Here was my meet plan: win. The bigger the meet the more conservative I would be. And vice versa.

But again my sport was a straight 3 lift limit strength sport. Other sports are different because practicing the sport is the most important thing and cannot be impeded by either strength, hypertrophy, or conditioning training. If I am training me my plan and developing goals can reside in my head. If I am training a team I am going to map the plan to present it to the head coach so we coordinate the training days, level of effort, and easy and hard weeks which is based on the previous weeks talent of the opponent. If you play an overtime barn burner and you lose an emotional and close game, do not expect your kids to excel the next week. This may be a great time for an impromptu back off (or speed) week.

Lots of ways and ideas on how to do this.
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climber511
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Re: Undulating Periodisation

Post by climber511 » Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:24 am

In many ways training for a Sport where lifting IS the sport is easier than training for a sport where there are another complete set of skills to develop. But it sure as heck isn't "easy" to get it right.

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Beer Jew
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Re: Undulating Periodisation

Post by Beer Jew » Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:35 am

To give something back to this thread, I've listened to the podcasts below at least three times this week;

1. Iraki Nutrition Podcast with Mike Zourdos

Some dude interviews Mike Zourdos. Fantastic interview technique, very easy to listen to and very very clearly lays out the concepts in this thread.

https://itunes.apple.com/gb/podcast/ira ... =374836438

2. Layne Norton and Mike Zourdos

See info above.

https://itunes.apple.com/gb/podcast/phy ... =345736294

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Shafpocalypse Now
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Re: Undulating Periodisation

Post by Shafpocalypse Now » Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:54 pm

My issue with Zourdos is

1. Squat once a week and you hit X in a meet
2. Squat 5-7x a week and you hit X in a meet

Which one should you do if that is the case?

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Beer Jew
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Re: Undulating Periodisation

Post by Beer Jew » Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:49 pm

What does that even mean?

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Shafpocalypse Now
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Re: Undulating Periodisation

Post by Shafpocalypse Now » Thu Jan 12, 2017 3:11 pm

Admittedly, a bit of a side track.

I've listened to some of Zourdos' presentations (his RTS one, and a podcast or two) and I find the research he's doing to be a bit more relevant than many involved in S&C research.

However, back when he was touting his "squatting every day", stuff, which, incidentally he became interested in after reading Matt Perryman's book on it, he essentially got the same results, personally, with regards to meet results as squatting once or twice a week. (and there was some denial about the Perryman material being the genesis of it)

So, 7 hours of squatting a week vs 2 hours of squatting a week for similar results....which one should most people choose?

The issue with frequency is that it's not always a great thing for everyone. And if you are a lifter who tends to push himself, it's probably not something you should dabble in unless you want a 6-9 month detour, because, unless you are really, really dialed in at that point, then the long 'crucible of suck', as per BD, doesn't have a light at the end of the tunnel, unless you consider burn out and injury a light.

His undulating periodization stuff was pretty solid, but, once again, there were non-scientist lifters working with that concept long before he picked it up as a research topic. He's clarified some questions and generated a few more.

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Beer Jew
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Re: Undulating Periodisation

Post by Beer Jew » Thu Jan 12, 2017 3:39 pm

Right I see what you're saying. He gives a great breakdown in the first podcast about using undulating periodization as a "conceptual" model and thereby adapting it to any frequency etc.

TerryB
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Re: Undulating Periodisation

Post by TerryB » Fri Jan 13, 2017 3:23 am

Undulating periodisation is lifting at different rep ranges throughout the WEEK.

Many programs do this, including Big Beyond Belief and Starr's beginner's 5x5 program (If I remember it right).

That has nothing to do with training "blocks." It has to do with what the 'athlete' does during the week.

Anyway, nuts to butts, it's been shown to be as effective as basic linear periodization.

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