Longevity

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JimZipCode
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Longevity

Post by JimZipCode » Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:40 am

Hijacking Sangoma's posts to a slightly different topic:
Sangoma wrote:Nice article along the lines of the title of this thread.

Longevity: It’s the Little Things That Keep Us Young
In other new research, Valter Longo, director of the University of Southern California's Longevity Institute, showed that when people occasionally fasted, they lowered their risk factors for age-related diseases. In the trial, which was published in the journal Cell Metabolism, Longo did a series of modified fasting experiments on mice and humans. Mice that were fed an extremely low-calorie and low-protein fasting diet improved their metabolism, decreased bone loss, improved cognitive function, got cancer at a lower rate and even lengthened their lives. Longo then tried a similar diet strategy on 19 people for five days a week. The menu was full of healthy foods but contained 34% to 54% fewer calories than what the people in the study usually consumed. After following the diet for three months, the people in the study had notable drops in risk factors related to aging, diabetes, heart disease and cancer, including lower blood sugar and reduced levels of the growth hormone IGF-1, which accelerates aging. While that hormone is important for normal development earlier in life, some people get too much of it from high-protein foods. Longo's research has also shown that cancer risk can increase about 400% among Americans who get 20% or more of their calories from protein, compared with people who clock in only about 10%.
In a 2015 study published in the Journal of the American Heart Association, researchers put fitness trackers on more than 1,000 adults in their 70s and 80s who were limited in how much they could move around. People who logged the least physical activity had the highest risk of a heart event in the next 10 years, which isn't shocking. But to the researchers' surprise, moving just a little bit more during the day—like doing chores around the house—was enough to lower the risk of a heart event.
For the first time, two studies published late last year in the journal Psychology and Aging linked a person's negative stereotypes about aging, of all things, to the development of brain changes associated with Alzheimer's disease. In the first study, researchers looked at 158 people without dementia who were part of the Baltimore Longitudinal Study of Aging (BLSA). The researchers asked the men and women, who were in their 40s at the time, to rate how they felt about different aging-related stereotypes, like "Older people have trouble learning new things" and "Older people are absentminded."
About 25 years later, the researchers gave some of those same people yearly brain scans. They found that the men and women who held more negative views of aging earlier in life had greater loss in the volume of their hippocampus, a region of the brain whose loss is linked to Alzheimer's disease. People who years earlier had held more unpleasant views of growing older had the same amount of hippocampus decline in three years as their more positive peers showed in nine.
The researchers also looked at brain autopsies of people in the study to investigate other markers of Alzheimer's disease. They looked specifically for buildup of amyloid plaques and neurofibrillary tangles, twisted strands of protein that accumulate in brain cells. Once again, they found that the people who had held more negative stereotypes about aging had significantly higher levels of both plaques and tangles.
And:
Sangoma wrote:Tangentially related issue worth mentioning. Currently there is a lot of research on ERAS, which stands for the Accelerated Recovery After Surgery. Usually medical research concentrates on one thing at a time, and most interventions didn't seem to make a difference. For example, changing how pain is controlled after surgery or anaesthetic technique doesn't make a difference. ERAS takes into consideration many variables, about twenty, and implementing all of them makes significant difference. Not only mortality and morbidity is decreased, but in some studies it also leads to reduced recurrence! Another example of accumulated benefit.

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Re: Longevity

Post by JimZipCode » Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:48 am

On the subject of longevity:

I'm watching the Rolling Stones Havana Moon on Starz right now. It's a movie of their concert in Havana in 2016; their first concert there ever. Mick and Charlie Watts look AMAZING. I mean, not Mick's face, which looks like a decayed Easter Island monument. But he's dancing and whipping around and running and skipping -- oh, and singing. He looks healthy and vital and energetic. Watts looks exactly like he's looked for the past 30 years, drumming his steady swing beat, effortlessly, for hours, smiling and laughing the while. These guys are in their mid-70s.

Keef of course looks like death in a bandana. But he moves great and looks happy as hell, and confident. And he is playing the shit out of that guitar. Ronnie & Keef occasionally exchange quips and crack each other up. Then bust out killer licks. All the performers are laughing and smiling and fist-bumping with each other, including keyboardist and backup singers and sax, etc. Looks like a bunch of people who, there's nothing they'd rather be doing.

So here's my question: Is there something about music? You look at classical musicians: either the first-chair violin in your local orchestra, or the travelling virtuosi who play the lead in concerto's around the world. Those guys are routinely still performing in their 60s, and a crazy number of them into their 70s. Slava Rostropovich played a concert when he was 78; Vladimir Horowitz played his last public recital at age 83. Obviously those guys aren't typical; but classical music guys seem to go old. And I wonder if their workaday life is just better than most of ours. We have TPS reports, and they have Mozart.

I'm not trying to overgeneralize. Obviously rock & roll's magic longevity power didn't help Janis Joplin or Jimi Hendrix or Kurt Cocaine. The lifestyle should have killed Richards decades ago. But there is something different about the Stones. Jagger & Richards have always admired and emulated the old blues singers -- I mean the OLD blues singers. They seem to regard themselves as keepers of a tradition, like classical musicians are keepers of a tradition. And those old-time blues guys keep singing and playing until they drop dead.

You see something similar in NFL assistant coaches. Not head coaches, who burn out: but the career assistants, say for example the O-line coaches. Dante Scarnecchia of the Pats is 68. Joe Bugel is retired now, but he was still coaching when he was 69. Joe D'Alessandris of the Ravens graduated college in 1976, so he's around age 62. Dick LeBeau is the defensive coordinator of the Titans. He's 79. Here's a pic:
  • Image
He was an NFL player in 1959 at age 22 -- played for 14 years -- so obviously he has always been crazy fit and gifted. Still, 79.

Those Japanese martial arts guys, the head instructors of the big associations like the Shotokan head and the Judo head: those guys seem to age great. They're still active and teaching at an old age, and still pretty capable.

Maybe it's not music specifically. Is there something to doing a thing that you love and that you're dedicated to? Having that be your day-in/day-out job? And maybe it helps that the thing requires physical dexterity (musicianship, martial arts) or high levels of activity and engagement (coaching pro athletes).

I guess good genetics probably doesn't hurt, either.
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Re: Longevity

Post by bennyonesix » Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:10 am

I'll throw my n=1 in on the pro fasting side. I try for at least once a week. Best thing I do for sleep, digestion and bloodwork (for whatever that is worth).

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Re: Longevity

Post by syaigh » Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:36 am

JimZipCode wrote:

Maybe it's not music specifically. Is there something to doing a thing that you love and that you're dedicated to? Having that be your day-in/day-out job? And maybe it helps that the thing requires physical dexterity (musicianship, martial arts) or high levels of activity and engagement (coaching pro athletes).

I guess good genetics probably doesn't hurt, either.
How about joy? Its simple, but it usually implies an absence, even if temporarily, of stress. And it enables one to play. Seriously,, when is the last time you remember experiencing true joy,? Maybe getting silly with the kids or friends, laughing until your sides hurt, enjoying music that made you transcendent? Got to be some good chemicals going on inthe body for that because it sure does feel good.

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/magaz ... t-disease/
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Re: Longevity

Post by DikTracy6000 » Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:41 pm

JimZipCode wrote:On the subject of longevity:


Those Japanese martial arts guys, the head instructors of the big associations like the Shotokan head and the Judo head: those guys seem to age great. They're still active and teaching at an old age, and still pretty capable.

Maybe it's not music specifically. Is there something to doing a thing that you love and that you're dedicated to? Having that be your day-in/day-out job? And maybe it helps that the thing requires physical dexterity (musicianship, martial arts) or high levels of activity and engagement (coaching pro athletes).

I guess good genetics probably doesn't hurt, either.
A friend's husband is still teaching Shotokan at 80. He recently fell down some steps while carrying out the garbage at night. Mostly bruised and pissed off, nothing broke. She has to fight with him to take his pain meds.

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Re: Longevity

Post by Mickey O'neil » Fri Jan 27, 2017 1:24 pm

Every time I ride trails.

My children say I act and joke around like a kid a lot too. But on the flip side I also yell at them a decent bit when they don't listen or do what I ask them to do. I've been working on that recently. I don't think I walk or move like someone who is approaching 50 either. I usually have a bounce or lightness in my step and am pretty agile.
syaigh wrote: Seriously,, when is the last time you remember experiencing true joy,?

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Re: Longevity

Post by johno » Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:55 pm

syaigh wrote: How about joy?
That's why I have dogs. Mornings would be torture without my Airedale, Chili. He's a morning person and he shows it.
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Re: Longevity

Post by Shapecharge » Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:08 pm

Don't forget the most powerful anabolic/longevity/vitality enhancer ever: PUSSY

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Re: Longevity

Post by dead man walking » Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:04 pm

whatever you weigh, you should weigh less.
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Re: Longevity

Post by The Ginger Beard Man » Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:04 pm

Fat Cat had a great, related post once about old surfers.
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Re: Longevity

Post by Alfred_E._Neuman » Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:23 pm

The Ginger Beard Man wrote:Fat Cat had a great, related post once about old surfers.
Like the dude in this segment from the documentary "Happy":
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Re: Longevity

Post by Sangoma » Sat Jan 28, 2017 12:10 am

I suspect the main reason why socio-economic status is strongly positively associated with health is the fact that in higher bracket many small things are automatically taken care of. Better sleep, easier work in the environment that is not harmful, better nutrition, both because of more resources available to buy better food and education that leads to better choices, working in an environment that is not harmful or dangerous, better working hours, access to health and (especially) dental care etc., etc. These benefits seem to switch on at the level of middle class.

By the way, the mention of protein and mortality in the early quotes of this thread is complete bunk. It was an epidemiological study that found some association between animal protein intake and increased mortality. The study stated:
These associations were confined to participants with at least 1 unhealthy lifestyle factor based on smoking, heavy alcohol intake, overweight or obesity, and physical inactivity, but not evident among those without any of these risk factors.
Don't be alarmed and eat meat if you like. If you don't have these risk factors you are safe, and if you do - these things will negatively affect your health no matter if you eat meat or not, so you can as well enjoy the steak.
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Re: Longevity

Post by JimZipCode » Sat Jan 28, 2017 12:42 am

Mickey O'neil wrote:I usually have a bounce or lightness in my step
I usually have a bounce or lightness in my step, whenever I see that pic in your sig. Good gawd.
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Re: Longevity

Post by bennyonesix » Sat Jan 28, 2017 1:20 am

Sangoma wrote:I suspect the main reason why socio-economic status is strongly positively associated with health is the fact that in higher bracket many small things are automatically taken care of. Better sleep, easier work in the environment that is not harmful, better nutrition, both because of more resources available to buy better food and education that leads to better choices, working in an environment that is not harmful or dangerous, better working hours, access to health and (especially) dental care etc., etc. These benefits seem to switch on at the level of middle class.

By the way, the mention of protein and mortality in the early quotes of this thread is complete bunk. It was an epidemiological study that found some association between animal protein intake and increased mortality. The study stated:
These associations were confined to participants with at least 1 unhealthy lifestyle factor based on smoking, heavy alcohol intake, overweight or obesity, and physical inactivity, but not evident among those without any of these risk factors.
Don't be alarmed and eat meat if you like. If you don't have these risk factors you are safe, and if you do - these things will negatively affect your health no matter if you eat meat or not, so you can as well enjoy the steak.

I'd bet diet and dental care account for more than 90% of difference.

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Re: Longevity

Post by Sangoma » Sat Jan 28, 2017 1:32 am

In short, the connection is complex and not completely clear. Here is an interesting article on the topic.

Socioeconomic Disparities in Health Behaviors
The inverse relationships between socioeconomic status (SES) and unhealthy behaviors such as tobacco use, physical inactivity, and poor nutrition have been well demonstrated empirically but encompass diverse underlying causal mechanisms. These mechanisms have special theoretical importance because disparities in health behaviors, unlike disparities in many other components of health, involve something more than the ability to use income to purchase good health. Based on a review of broad literatures in sociology, economics, and public health, we classify explanations of higher smoking, lower exercise, poorer diet, and excess weight among low-SES persons into nine broad groups that specify related but conceptually distinct mechanisms.
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Re: Longevity

Post by bennyonesix » Sat Jan 28, 2017 1:57 am

Yes. I am not arguing lack of funds is reason. Modern Society in the West is designed to sort for resistance to advertising for food and debt.

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Re: Longevity

Post by milosz » Sat Jan 28, 2017 8:54 am

I'm not sure it even requires joy/music/hobbies/etc. - my grandfather made it to 85 working regular hours doing construction - not the way he did in the '50s or even at 75 but he could still carry sheets of drywall and stayed up and active. He had rheumatoid arthritis issues in his feet that slowed him down and began the decline, then a series of major health issues that wound up killing him at 91 - but almost none of the age-related stuff your normally think of (frailty, senility) really began to appear until he wasn't up and active day in and day out.

Likewise, my grandmother on the opposite side was forced to retire from the Post Office at 62 for something back related (I think, I was young at that point) but immediately started working at Wal-Mart as a greeter. For the 12 years she had that job she was fine and in outstanding phsyical/mental health despite never having moved on from my grandfather's death or made outside friends - she interacted with people, she moved a lot, she had responsibilities outside of herself and her house. Her cardiologist made her retire from Wal-Mart, which meant she sat at home all day unless she went to dinner with one of us/the family and within two years there was a noticeable cognitive decline leading to Alzheimer's.

Anecdotes aren't data - maybe my grandfather just had good genes regardless, maybe my grandmother would have been hit with Alzheimer's in the same time frame - but between them and various other senior citizens I've seen go into decline in a leisure retirement, I have my suspicions.
Last edited by milosz on Sat Jan 28, 2017 7:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Longevity

Post by Sangoma » Sat Jan 28, 2017 9:30 am

I think when anecdotes accumulate you can call it data. There is something about the ability of being happy - call it acceptance, inner peace, whatever. I envy people who have it. I came across this type of people a few times: emotionally in the middle, not getting upset by the bad news, but not getting overly happy by good news. Instead, stable demeanour and mental state. Yu never really know what's good, and something that makes you happy right now sometimes turns out to be real shit. An vice versa. Viktor Frankl talked a lot about it.

In any case, health is multifactorial. I like mentioning grandmothers' wisdom: don't eat and drink too much, wear a vest when it's cold, keep your feet warm, don't get angry, eat well and so on. Something confirmed many times by complicated studies decades later.
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Re: Longevity

Post by Freki » Sat Jan 28, 2017 3:13 pm

milosz wrote:I'm not sure it even requires joy/music/hobbies/etc. - my grandfather made it to 85 working regular hours doing construction - not the way he did in the '50s or even at 75 but he could still carry sheets of drywall and stayed up and active. He had rheumatoid arthritis issues in his feet that slowed him down and began the decline, then a series of major health issues that wound up killing him at 91 - but almost none of the age-related stuff your normally think of (frailty, senility) really began to appear until he wasn't up and active day in and day out.

Likewise, my grandmother on the opposite was forced to retire from the Post Office at 62 for something back related (I think, I was young at that point) but immediately started working at Wal-Mart as a greeter. For the 12 years she had that job she was fine and in outstanding phsyical/mental health despite never having moved on from my grandfather's death or made outside friends - she interacted with people, she moved a lot, she had responsibilities outside of herself and her house. Her cardiologist made her retire from Wal-Mart, which meant she sat at home all day unless she went to dinner with one of us/the family and within two years there was a noticeable cognitive decline leading to Alzheimer's.

Anecdotes aren't data - maybe my grandfather just had good genes regardless, maybe my grandmother would have been hit with Alzheimer's in the same time frame - but between them and various other senior citizens I've seen go into decline in a leisure retirement, I have my suspicions.
My maternal grandmother worked the farm till she was in her mid-80s. The doc suggested she cut back after breaking her ankle hooking a wagon to a tractor and that she'd be better off just walking on the treadmill. She followed the instructions religiously and within a few years was bent over and.noticeably weaker. Just turned 98 a few months ago, but had a stroke a few years ago. As you say though, anecdotal only.
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Re: Longevity

Post by TomFurman » Sat Jan 28, 2017 3:40 pm

Date young women.
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Re: Longevity

Post by The Ginger Beard Man » Sat Jan 28, 2017 6:51 pm

Alfred_E._Neuman wrote:
The Ginger Beard Man wrote:Fat Cat had a great, related post once about old surfers.
Like the dude in this segment from the documentary "Happy":
Yeah, like that. I should take up surfing.
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Re: Longevity

Post by Sangoma » Sat Jan 28, 2017 11:14 pm

This could be the answer to many health problems:

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Re: Longevity

Post by Sangoma » Sun Jan 29, 2017 12:41 am

TomFurman wrote:Date young women.
Women shorten your life.
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Re: Longevity

Post by Bram » Sun Jan 29, 2017 8:10 am

Eat healthy, do nice things for others and/or volunteer, spend time with friends and family, wear sunscreen, spend time in nature, exercise, have activities that make you happy.....all good things.
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Re: Longevity

Post by Sangoma » Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:19 pm

Choosing parents with right genes is another major factor.
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