Podcast research

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Re: Podcast research

Post by Turdacious » Thu Feb 23, 2017 9:46 pm

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Re: Podcast research

Post by bennyonesix » Thu Feb 23, 2017 10:08 pm

Blaidd Drwg wrote:Ahhh...so you're just gonna concede the bullshit line about how it's expensive to eat clean?



Cool story.

So you realize the only way your point holds water with your own example is if you're a slave to your desires, trapped by the tube, living off fast food, destitute and fat as fuck?

or perhaps it's actually simple as just don't eat so much you fat ass. If you insist on eating more volume, eat whole foods.

CICO...

make good food choices.

it's not complicated, but it's also not easy. Few things are.

No. Boris wanted what I eat and pay.

Societal pressures (including lower cost of fast food and unhealthy food) are upstream of CICO and make just do it fatty not useful.

Look at those pics of brazil a generation ago. Those are same people with same willpower. What changed? The food industry and advertising.

Your approach was pointless for the majority then and pointless for the majority now because in the past their culture wasn't hell bent on making them fat to turn a profit for corporations and right now it is. One has to address that before any progress can be made.
Last edited by bennyonesix on Thu Feb 23, 2017 10:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Podcast research

Post by bennyonesix » Thu Feb 23, 2017 10:14 pm

Boris wrote:Wait, you eat like that and scoffed at the slow cooker?...

Apparently I am just too dumb to follow your arguments.
I use the slowcooker every week for the pork butt and to make stock from the bones.

I just disagree that one can eat cleanly cheaper than fast food. Even without factoring in labor, planning and wait time.

I do agree one can eat cleanly cheaply.

But my larger point is that in a society where fast food and shit food is close to good food in price and exceeds it sig in convenience and is composed of food that triggers hormonal responses and is backed up by billion dollar advertising (which works), telling fatties CICO and to buy a food scale and food dictionary is not useful.

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Re: Podcast research

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Thu Feb 23, 2017 10:37 pm

bennyonesix wrote:
Blaidd Drwg wrote:Ahhh...so you're just gonna concede the bullshit line about how it's expensive to eat clean?



Cool story.

So you realize the only way your point holds water with your own example is if you're a slave to your desires, trapped by the tube, living off fast food, destitute and fat as fuck?

or perhaps it's actually simple as just don't eat so much you fat ass. If you insist on eating more volume, eat whole foods.

CICO...

make good food choices.

it's not complicated, but it's also not easy. Few things are.

No. Boris wanted what I eat and pay.

Societal pressures (including lower cost of fast food and unhealthy food) are upstream of CICO and make just do it fatty not useful.

Look at those pics of brazil a generation ago. Those are same people with same willpower. What changed? The food industry and advertising.

Your approach was pointless for the majority then and pointless for the majority now because in the past their culture wasn't hell bent on making them fat to turn a profit for corporations and right now it is. One has to address that before any progress can be made.
Nonsense.

I'd rather sit on my computer and find Mopars and strnage new forms of porn on all day...societal pressures and the advotainment industry has made these devilish devices nearly impossible to resist...and yet....we do. every day. I don't know what your billable are, mine are right around 1600 plus a side business, an active training schedule and kids. I make time for stuff. Does it take will power...yes. Same as diet.

No matter how many pearls you put on the pig, dieting success of all kinds comes down to one simple metric. CICO. Use whatever strategies make you feel like you're not a slave to your primal influences, the fact remains, you're pushing uphill. Pretending you're not a slave to CICO is what derails 99% of the people out there. There is no magic. It's just hard. instead of lying to yourself and others, why not just address the painful truth. Accept that it's hard and then it get easy.

Yes. Hunger is a part of the deal..and it's normal. Discomfort is a part of training,

Life is full of all manner of discomfort we are wired to resist. Pretending as you and Bux like to, that there is a better easier slicker magic way is what fails people. Always Always Always.

How do I know this? Because I've done it, successfully, I've taken my body from 210 to 140s and back to the 240's and then back down to below 200 and back up to 225. It's uncomfortable. Going up being much harder than down for sure....but by keeping your eye on the simpel metrics, you make much more progress much more quickly than getting off in the weeds. I also know this shit works because I coach people to do it. I teach people how to do uncomfortable things so they aren't a slave to their internal torpor. These are not outliers, I'm not an outlier, I'm just a normal guy who found it's not healthy to lie to yourself.

Shit is hard. Get over it.
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Re: Podcast research

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:27 pm

You don't lose fat without a calorie deficit.

Any diet scheme that fails to account for that basic fact is corrupted beyond usefulness.
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Re: Podcast research

Post by Boris » Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:53 am

bennyonesix wrote:
Boris wrote:Wait, you eat like that and scoffed at the slow cooker?...

Apparently I am just too dumb to follow your arguments.
I use the slowcooker every week for the pork butt and to make stock from the bones.

I just disagree that one can eat cleanly cheaper than fast food. Even without factoring in labor, planning and wait time.

I do agree one can eat cleanly cheaply.
Well, then you are arguing over trivial matters... I'm quite certain I can eat better and more cheaply w. a slow cooker than eating fast food. I don't know how you think you'd ever eat 250g+ of protein eating at McD's on a tight budget. When I eat at McD's, I'm probably going to spend the better part of $10 there - add that over time and it's not exactly cheap.

If your argument is you can buy more calories for your dollar in Little Debbies than, for example, the meat section, then well, okay, you win, I guess.
But my larger point is that in a society where fast food and shit food is close to good food in price and exceeds it sig in convenience and is composed of food that triggers hormonal responses and is backed up by billion dollar advertising (which works), telling fatties CICO and to buy a food scale and food dictionary is not useful.
Again, I (and BD for that matter) have made it abundantly clear that eating well requires discipline and at least some knowledge. No one is saying it's easy.

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Re: Podcast research

Post by bennyonesix » Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:15 am

This culture will be fat until we change the culture: back to where it was in the 70's and early 80's.

No one needed a scale and food dictionary back then.

And that means making eating shit food a pain in the ass economically painful and a massive time sink. And also making eating healthy cheap and much easier than eating crap.

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Re: Podcast research

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:34 am

I cook all my lunches for the week and all my kids lunches in less than 2 hours on Sunday. Slow cooker chili takes 10 minutes at most.

Technique always looks like magic the first time you see it. Healthy food prep is less difficult to learn than a card trick.

You just have to do it. That's all anyone seems to be balking at. Doing is hard. You got me there.
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Re: Podcast research

Post by bennyonesix » Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:44 am

Why was almost no one fat in the late 70's. And fat even meant a completely different thing! Was there a genetic change? Some massive decrease in character in one generation?

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Re: Podcast research

Post by Boris » Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:57 am

bennyonesix wrote:Why was almost no one fat in the late 70's. And fat even meant a completely different thing! Was there a genetic change? Some massive decrease in character in one generation?
You're getting desperate. Seriously, you're reaching now. I remember the 70s and there were fat people then too. There are plenty of rail thin people walking the streets today as well.

Maybe part of the problem today is people sitting around on their phones and computers and TVs all day. Maybe it's because mom and dad cart their kids everywhere and no one actually uses a bicycle for transportation anymore. Maybe it's because of all that pent up nervous energy from screen viewing causes their brains to crave more sugar. Maybe it's Starbucks with three squirts of syrup. Maybe it's because everyone eats out all the fucking time now. Maybe.

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Re: Podcast research

Post by bennyonesix » Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:21 am

You are delusional about the chrrent fatness of the US and its past leanness.

One more time, diets work via restriction of energy intake below energy output: CICO. Always have, always will. Never disputed that.

But that is not helpful information in todays environment due to environmental factors. And it wasn't needed in the past because of the lack of those features.

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Re: Podcast research

Post by Boris » Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:39 am

Benny,

No one is arguing that weight loss is easy or that there aren't other things to consider beyond calories. No one here is unsympathetic or devoid of empathy. Fucking of course obesity is complex.

After this I'm done with your troll self. You're arguing in this thread that CICO is not useful and that eating healthy is unrealistic in today's culture. That's, quite simply, bullshit.

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Re: Podcast research

Post by bennyonesix » Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:44 am

No what I am saying is we have an incredible duty to drastically change things. Massive intervention is required: legislative and every other way. Unfatfucking the country requires massive change and should be done. It will only get worse if we don't act.

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Re: Podcast research

Post by Sangoma » Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:44 am

buckethead wrote:Thank you for agreeing that cico by itself is a useless concept. Which is all my original point was but somehow got you guys triggered
CICO is the only useful concept, because it looks into the core of the process. You can achieve calorie deficit by many, many means, from eating whole foods, eating low carbs, low GI, Paleo, vegan, Dukan, Dr Phill and Gwineth Paltrow diet and what not, but none of it will be as reliable as actually counting the energy value of food that crosses your lips. All of the indirect approaches have automatic calorie reduction, especially at the beginning. Then something gets adjusted and consumption increases, even though the dieter sticks to the prescribed macros - no carbs or no fat or no white food or whatever. I don't get why CICO is met with such resistance. It allows eating EVERYTHING in reasonable amounts, in other words requires no sacrifices, for real, only in the amounts. You can have pizza, chocolate, chicken, deep fried calamari, twinkles and Big Mac, as long as you work it into your required intake. Coming back to Taubes - he is plain wrong, carbs per se don't cause obesity and removing them from the diet will not solve the issue in the long term.
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Re: Podcast research

Post by Wild Bill » Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:04 pm

cereals are very cheap. and cooked quickly enough.
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Re: Podcast research

Post by syaigh » Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:09 pm

Really interesting bit of observational science: http://www.radiolab.org/story/251885-yo ... ndpa-eats/

So, basically, the idea is (and there's other research to support this) that behavior and circumstances can effect gene expression. For example, mother rats who lick their babies cause their babies' brains to express more nurturing genes and become good mothers themselves (licking babies causes hormones to be released that demethylate certain genes and allow them to be expressed at higher rates than in non-licked babies).

Anyway, in the podcast above, they found some rather interesting evidence that male children who were between the ages of 9-11 during times of famine were statistically more likely to have grandchildren who have much lower rates of heart disease and diabetes and a much longer life span. They don't know the mechanism, but suspect it may have something to do with genes being expressed in developing sperm pre-cursor cells.

It says a lot about how what happens to us as kids affects future generations. And in this case, may explain why our obesity rate is sky-rocketing, ie, we've had at least two generations of people with more than enough to eat and a lot more chubby kids and so maybe our gene expression has made us all a little more susceptible to getting fat and unhealthy. Thank God my grandfather grew up as a skinny, dirt poor kid in a Tennessee coal mining town.
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Re: Podcast research

Post by bennyonesix » Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:57 pm

That's a fascinating article.

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Re: Podcast research

Post by Sangoma » Sat Feb 25, 2017 2:53 am

There is a simplistic explanation as to why reduced calorie intake is related to longevity. The ultimate goal of existence of any organism is to produce an offspring. Once it does that its existence is no longer necessary. If an animal is undereating the procreation is postponed - infertility caused by lack of nutrition is well demonstrated. It makes sense: if there isn't enough food then the offspring will not survive. However, as procreation is postponed so are processes that lead to ageing and death - cell apoptosis, shortening of the telomeres etc. So the logic goes, and there is some experimental and observational data to support this.

So it would make sense that switching on the survival genes cause by food deprivation carries forward to the future generations. Mind you, the quoted study is small and is based on indirect measurements - for example harvest statistics instead of calorie intake, which is obviously impossible. However, some of the odds ratios are quite large and warrant more research.
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Re: Podcast research

Post by Shafpocalypse Now » Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:00 pm

Glassman did a piece in an early Crossfit Journal, or maybe one of his original writers, comparing the time it took to get McDonald's vs going to the grocery store and getting ready to eat food there, think better lunch eats, tuna, fruit, yogurt, etc and it turns out that cost and time are very comparable, except you can get far more protein at the grocery store.

Let me give a concrete example

Pouch of tuna, 0.88 add hot sauce
Siggi's yogurt. 1.50
Apple, 0.25
1/3 cup of nuts, 1.75
Diet coke, 1.65

Pretty cheap. High in protein, good fats, fiber...can be easily modified for more or less of anything, including water, iced tea, milk, coconut water etc

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Re: Podcast research

Post by Boris » Sat Feb 25, 2017 9:32 pm

I don't know how much making a big slow cooker full of chili costs for us (I've never broken it down), but it's probably around $10 and it could feed my family for 2 full days.

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Re: Podcast research

Post by Sangoma » Sun Feb 26, 2017 12:54 am

I would mention another ingenious device that makes eating well easy: the FAST cooker. A bunch of chicken thight - 15 minutes, breast 7-10 minutes. Rice (white, of course) - e minutes. Plus another 10 - 15 minutes for the thing to heat up. Actual preparation time - 2-3 minutes. Chop some tomatoes, cucumbers and onions while you wait and in 30 minutes total you have a clean dinner. 1000 kcal of this will make you satisfied.

You that's left is to have the discipline not to munch on popcorn or sandwiches when you watch TV. Even better, instead of watching another load of shit go for a walk.

But of course, it's not that simple because ...........
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Re: Podcast research

Post by Sangoma » Sun Feb 26, 2017 12:58 am

Another trick to reduce calories is to eat fish instead of meat - sometimes. It's caloric value is less than half of that of meats.
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Re: Podcast research

Post by dkay » Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:52 am

Darling, I started as an uneasy ally.

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Re: Podcast research

Post by bennyonesix » Sun Feb 26, 2017 5:36 am

Libertarianism is a form of mental retardation.

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Re: Podcast research

Post by bennyonesix » Sun Feb 26, 2017 5:42 am

Shafpocalypse Now wrote:Glassman did a piece in an early Crossfit Journal, or maybe one of his original writers, comparing the time it took to get McDonald's vs going to the grocery store and getting ready to eat food there, think better lunch eats, tuna, fruit, yogurt, etc and it turns out that cost and time are very comparable, except you can get far more protein at the grocery store.

Let me give a concrete example

Pouch of tuna, 0.88 add hot sauce
Siggi's yogurt. 1.50
Apple, 0.25
1/3 cup of nuts, 1.75
Diet coke, 1.65

Pretty cheap. High in protein, good fats, fiber...can be easily modified for more or less of anything, including water, iced tea, milk, coconut water etc
I will do this experiment tmw. It may have been true in the past (glassmann is a fucking liar tho) but with inflation of food prices I bet it isn't now. I wiil buy Steven's meal and what from McD's? I haven't eaten anything but a mckinley mac there in a decade. A double quarter pounder super value meal? What?

And, to be clear AGAIN, my point relies on the closeness of the prices. But no one understands my argument anyway.

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