How to train yourself

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Blaidd Drwg
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Re: How to train yourself

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:54 pm

BRAMCUNT,

If you had even the barest notion of the scope and scale being discussed or the idea of relative effects we might get soemwhere. You don't. For those with the chops to keep up with basic shit.....I'll break it down one more time.

VOLUME IS THE DETERMINANT FACTOR IN LONG TERM PROGRESS.

Some weak ass bitches like BRAMCUNT, have LESS capacity to handle volume.

THIS MEANS THAT WEAK ASS CUNTS, (like BRAMCUNT, ) WILL, OVER TIME PROGRESS LESS QUICKLY THAN THOSE WHO TOLERATE MORE VOLUME.

Weak ass bitch hardgainers like BRAMCUNT, here, will throw up their hands and whinge and bitch and cry that indeed.....they got the short end of the stick..They did. BRAMCUNT, is both weak and stupid. This is born out by mountains of evidence on this forum. NONETHELESS, the smart, and less hopeless hardgainer cunt will recognize that although his capacity for volume is lower than his normal compatriots, the equation remains the same. Hardgainers must seek to, OVER TIME, raise overall volume and control for intensity so that they may do so.

You see BRAMCUNT, ..you listen but you do not hear. The whole point of MAXIMUM RECOVERABLE VOLUME is that yes...everyone has a different (potentially genetically limited) work capacity. This does not excuse anyone from the equation, it just means ...as is the case with the mentally defective BRAMCUNT, you have to accept a lower rate of progress and poteially an overall lower level opf performance...well...like every other god damn thing in life...I know it's not fair.
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Re: How to train yourself

Post by SubClaw » Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:35 am

Would volume alone suffice? I tend to think that it's frequency the thing that facilitates volume without getting burned (instead of marathon sessions maybe twice a week).

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Re: How to train yourself

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:18 pm

SubClaw wrote:Would volume alone suffice? I tend to think that it's frequency the thing that facilitates volume without getting burned (instead of marathon sessions maybe twice a week).

The two are intertwined irrevocably.
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Re: How to train yourself

Post by powerlifter54 » Mon Apr 17, 2017 3:52 pm

SubClaw wrote:Would volume alone suffice? I tend to think that it's frequency the thing that facilitates volume without getting burned (instead of marathon sessions maybe twice a week).
Personally, I would tend to train a body part twice a week with a Volume of 2V if I wanted to focus on hypertrophy.

If I wanted to train for strength I would train 4x a week with a volume of V.

But here is the interesting part. Training 4 times a week your volume can be even higher, like 1.25-1.5V. And gets higher and higher. Drugged out of your mind or a Quaker USAPL type, it works the same, you have to earn your volume capacity. Neither Your genetic baseline or mine or Kirk Karwoski or Chuck Vogelpohl's is enough to get to any higher level.

Just my opinion here, but you recover and grow while resting, but you get stronger while lifting.

And absolef'inlutely what BD says about recovery and eating. When I get the "hardgainer" sob story I always think there are no hardgainers just undereaters. Yes, Ed Coan and Dave Ricks and Dan Green are more talented than you, or me. Every Orthopedic Surgeon wasn't the smartest guy in his class. Yes you will probably lose to them if you compete. But you gotta show up to find out. And as a savvy old Pler told me once, "if Ed Coan is in your weight class they won't even remember you were there". So either do or do not. There is no try. Because trying usually means half ass.
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Re: How to train yourself

Post by syaigh » Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:05 am

powerlifter54 wrote:
SubClaw wrote:Would volume alone suffice? I tend to think that it's frequency the thing that facilitates volume without getting burned (instead of marathon sessions maybe twice a week).
Personally, I would tend to train a body part twice a week with a Volume of 2V if I wanted to focus on hypertrophy.

If I wanted to train for strength I would train 4x a week with a volume of V.

But here is the interesting part. Training 4 times a week your volume can be even higher, like 1.25-1.5V. And gets higher and higher. Drugged out of your mind or a Quaker USAPL type, it works the same, you have to earn your volume capacity. Neither Your genetic baseline or mine or Kirk Karwoski or Chuck Vogelpohl's is enough to get to any higher level.

Just my opinion here, but you recover and grow while resting, but you get stronger while lifting.

And absolef'inlutely what BD says about recovery and eating. When I get the "hardgainer" sob story I always think there are no hardgainers just undereaters. Yes, Ed Coan and Dave Ricks and Dan Green are more talented than you, or me. Every Orthopedic Surgeon wasn't the smartest guy in his class. Yes you will probably lose to them if you compete. But you gotta show up to find out. And as a savvy old Pler told me once, "if Ed Coan is in your weight class they won't even remember you were there". So either do or do not. There is no try. Because trying usually means half ass.
Intellectual exercise: How does one convince people like CFers (and pretty much every low level gym rat/athlete who ever lived) that volume with a focus on form and not being exhausted is the goal of volume training? AND that it will have a positive effect on their peak?

I train a lot of former CFers. It takes about 2 years and multiple failures at peaking before they listen. And then they still do stupid shit.

Just me venting actually.
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Re: How to train yourself

Post by Sangoma » Tue Apr 18, 2017 4:21 am

I get shits when someone overweight talks about their latest Boot Camp/Crossfit/Body Burn/Body Pump workout, how they almost puked and how they could barely walk for days. Especially the smirk of superiority when I say that 100% effort all of the time is neither necessary nor productive. These fuckers often wear Fitbits and volunteer their current calorie expenditure, usually in thousands. Maybe I am just jealous.
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Re: How to train yourself

Post by SubClaw » Tue Apr 18, 2017 4:58 am

syaigh wrote:Intellectual exercise: How does one convince people like CFers (and pretty much every low level gym rat/athlete who ever lived) that volume with a focus on form and not being exhausted is the goal of volume training? AND that it will have a positive effect on their peak?

I train a lot of former CFers. It takes about 2 years and multiple failures at peaking before they listen. And then they still do stupid shit.

Just me venting actually.
I know this one.

SubClaw: so you are a crossfitter, huh?

Random Crossfitter: yep.

SC: and you think you are training for whatever 'real life' throws at you, right?

RC: yep.

SC: would you be willing to test that?

RC: sure, why not?

And then we spent a few minutes doing heavy bag work and rolling on the ground (not even amicable sparring, just drilling, which is waaaaaaaay easier and less tiring). Unsurprisingly enough, this random crossfitter was utterly spent within fifteen minutes while I was like 'keep it coming, dude, I'm barely breaking a sweat!'.

Keep in mind this guy is a regional competitor and his WoD scores are pretty high, so his ego kinda took a blow of epic proportions. Those challenges didn't involve a technical element (I did it on purpose, so he couldn't hide afterwards), they were just tiring activities, no more.

RC: *pant* *pant* *pant*

SC: SAID principle is a bitch, huh?

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Re: How to train yourself

Post by Beer Jew » Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:15 am

Presumably he then had you do a WOD during which you gassed pretty quickly?

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Re: How to train yourself

Post by SubClaw » Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:51 am

Beer Jew wrote:Presumably he then had you do a WOD during which you gassed pretty quickly?
That goes without saying.

But I'm not the one who claims my training prepares me for anything, anywhere (which is quite frequent among crosfitters).

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Re: How to train yourself

Post by powerlifter54 » Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:44 pm

syaigh wrote:
powerlifter54 wrote:
SubClaw wrote:Would volume alone suffice? I tend to think that it's frequency the thing that facilitates volume without getting burned (instead of marathon sessions maybe twice a week).
Personally, I would tend to train a body part twice a week with a Volume of 2V if I wanted to focus on hypertrophy.

If I wanted to train for strength I would train 4x a week with a volume of V.

But here is the interesting part. Training 4 times a week your volume can be even higher, like 1.25-1.5V. And gets higher and higher. Drugged out of your mind or a Quaker USAPL type, it works the same, you have to earn your volume capacity. Neither Your genetic baseline or mine or Kirk Karwoski or Chuck Vogelpohl's is enough to get to any higher level.

Just my opinion here, but you recover and grow while resting, but you get stronger while lifting.

And absolef'inlutely what BD says about recovery and eating. When I get the "hardgainer" sob story I always think there are no hardgainers just undereaters. Yes, Ed Coan and Dave Ricks and Dan Green are more talented than you, or me. Every Orthopedic Surgeon wasn't the smartest guy in his class. Yes you will probably lose to them if you compete. But you gotta show up to find out. And as a savvy old Pler told me once, "if Ed Coan is in your weight class they won't even remember you were there". So either do or do not. There is no try. Because trying usually means half ass.
Intellectual exercise: How does one convince people like CFers (and pretty much every low level gym rat/athlete who ever lived) that volume with a focus on form and not being exhausted is the goal of volume training? AND that it will have a positive effect on their peak?

I train a lot of former CFers. It takes about 2 years and multiple failures at peaking before they listen. And then they still do stupid shit.

Just me venting actually.
I have had similar conversations all over the planet with all levels of athletes and badasses. If they are into the shirtless, board shorts, inked up, go hard or go home @ fit world it is pointless. Womyn will listen if you explain the alternative and how it will make them look better and perform higher.
"Start slowly, then ease off". Tortuga Golden Striders Running Club, Pensacola 1984.

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Re: How to train yourself

Post by Bram » Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:54 pm

Blaidd Drwg wrote:BRAMCUNT,

If you had even the barest notion of the scope and scale being discussed or the idea of relative effects we might get soemwhere. You don't. For those with the chops to keep up with basic shit.....I'll break it down one more time.

VOLUME IS THE DETERMINANT FACTOR IN LONG TERM PROGRESS.

Some weak ass bitches like BRAMCUNT, have LESS capacity to handle volume.

THIS MEANS THAT WEAK ASS CUNTS, (like BRAMCUNT, ) WILL, OVER TIME PROGRESS LESS QUICKLY THAN THOSE WHO TOLERATE MORE VOLUME.

Weak ass bitch hardgainers like BRAMCUNT, here, will throw up their hands and whinge and bitch and cry that indeed.....they got the short end of the stick..They did. BRAMCUNT, is both weak and stupid. This is born out by mountains of evidence on this forum. NONETHELESS, the smart, and less hopeless hardgainer cunt will recognize that although his capacity for volume is lower than his normal compatriots, the equation remains the same. Hardgainers must seek to, OVER TIME, raise overall volume and control for intensity so that they may do so.

You see BRAMCUNT, ..you listen but you do not hear. The whole point of MAXIMUM RECOVERABLE VOLUME is that yes...everyone has a different (potentially genetically limited) work capacity. This does not excuse anyone from the equation, it just means ...as is the case with the mentally defective BRAMCUNT, you have to accept a lower rate of progress and poteially an overall lower level opf performance...well...like every other god damn thing in life...I know it's not fair.
You should watch the video you posted.

For anyone, like Blabbering Dimbulb, who didn't watch the entire hour video he posted, I'll summarize it:

Everyone has different workloads they can tolerate, measured by your ability to recover to baseline. If you do legs and you come back weaker, you overdid it. The harder you work without overdoing it, the better.

You can improve tolerance by adding things like cardio, caffeine and steroids.

But you, or your trainee, is still limited by what they can handle. You overdo it, you'll fuck up their progress.

And, on the other hand, you might be undertraining them. They might be able to tolerate way more volume. The only way to find out is to pick a reasonable workload and add to it until they're unable to return to baseline.

One factor is fiber type....sprinters can handle less volume, long distance runners can handle more. If sprinters can handle less volume does that make them, in Big Dipshits words, "Weak ass bitch hardgainers like BRAMCUNT, here, [who] will throw up their hands and whinge and bitch and cry that indeed.....they got the short end of the stick."

No. It's just their genes.

A couple more quotes from the video.

Starting at 15:25:

"Is it true we can just train as hard as possible, grind it down, and we'll still get better? Absolutely not. We'll start getting worse."

31:55

"The assumption that all athletes can survive the same program, is not a very good assumption."

And I said work on being less of a cunt, not more, Butt-ugly Donkey.
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Re: How to train yourself

Post by Boris » Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:22 am

Bram wrote: And, on the other hand, you might be undertraining them. They might be able to tolerate way more volume. The only way to find out is to pick a reasonable workload and add to it until they're unable to return to baseline.

One factor is fiber type....sprinters can handle less volume, long distance runners can handle more. If sprinters can handle less volume does that make them, in Big Dipshits words, "Weak ass bitch hardgainers like BRAMCUNT, here, [who] will throw up their hands and whinge and bitch and cry that indeed.....they got the short end of the stick."

No. It's just their genes.

A couple more quotes from the video.

Starting at 15:25:

"Is it true we can just train as hard as possible, grind it down, and we'll still get better? Absolutely not. We'll start getting worse."

31:55

"The assumption that all athletes can survive the same program, is not a very good assumption."

And I said work on being less of a cunt, not more, Butt-ugly Donkey.
Bram,
I'm not following the whole of you or Blaidd's arguments here, but if the point was that volume is the sh*t, then I don't see where he has contradicted himself...

(quoting from above) Fiber type may be a consideration, but so is goal and purpose... No one is thinking of volume for a sprinter the same way one would think of volume for an endurance athlete... That's not an issue of genes. A sprinter will add volume by doing drills, practicing starts, special exercises, etc. NOT doing more balls out sprints.

In an effort to bring this back to the practical, here's a hypothetical for you to consider:

Lifter A
Max Squat = 200lbs
Training = 180lbs x 3 x 10 sets
Total Volume = 5400lb

Lifter B
Max Squat = 500lbs
Training = 450lbs x 3 x 4 sets
Total Volume = 5400lb

I know it's a contextual vacuum, but humor me. Both lifters are training at 90% intensity. I would argue that probably neither is training appropriately, but maybe.
Lifter A is a newb and could probably get by with less volume AND less intensity - the muscle strength deficit is large and recruitment gains are still accruing.
Lifter B is at least an intermediate who might be training at a higher than needed intensity. He can't handle high intensity work very often because when he puts the pedal to the metal with 90% efforts and above, it's going to be stressing the system far more than it would for a relative newb. He would be better off lowering the intensity a touch for most training sessions and adding volume w. drills, auxiliary work, etc.

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Re: How to train yourself

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:36 am

Boris, you can absolutely Trust that this will be lost on that useless BRAMCUNT.

As you so succinctly point out by way of example, yes...recovery ability and "volume" are both relative this is of course completely lost on BRAMCUNT,

So here we are leading his dullard ass back to the light after he shits the bed yet again ( does BRAMCUNT really believe the totality of what is being argued is go hard or go home?...from his citations it's clear, yes. He is literally that slow. So we return to the message while BRAMCUNT soils himself yet again.

With wildly disparate and relative starting points (regardless of discipline..e.g. Strength, endurance etc) increased volume over time (once technique is established) is absolutely STILL the factor most readily and successfully manipulated in sports training.

Couple this bone-simple-dead-nuts-most-readily-observable fact (relativeness + volume) with the overarching notion that ONE DOES VOLUME TO SPECIFICALLY INCREASE RECOVERY ABILITY OVER TIME ... ZOINKS BATMAN, obvious things should be obvious.

And yet, here you see that BRAMCUNT remains literally the stupidest, least capable mind in a business which attracts shitbirds, the socially ethically and intellectually retarded and the pathologically vain. I truly used to pity him...now I only pity his parents and the poor souls who support his ventures in the S&C arena.
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Re: How to train yourself

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:24 pm

I wonder.......

I mean...if you take everyone as a unique starting point with unique recovery capabilities and expand those recovery capabilities over time through judicious control of intensity, WHILE INCREASING VOLUME, (relative to their starting point, chronological age, training age, hormonal profile etc. plus food, plus form, plus fundamental recovery strategies and expectation management) I wonder what might happen?

.I mean...it's obviously not a cookie cutter program but as STRATEGY, you focus on driving up volume, I wonder.......???
18056942_10207033256708351_8441916791028108451_n.jpg
18056942_10207033256708351_8441916791028108451_n.jpg (105.17 KiB) Viewed 5164 times
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Re: How to train yourself

Post by syaigh » Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:27 am

I know that girl. Isn't she a world champion?
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Re: How to train yourself

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:17 am

syaigh wrote:I know that girl. Isn't she a world champion?
Aren't we all tho?
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Re: How to train yourself

Post by Bram » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:12 pm

Boris wrote: Bram,
I'm not following the whole of you or Blaidd's arguments here, but if the point was that volume is the sh*t, then I don't see where he has contradicted himself...

(quoting from above) Fiber type may be a consideration, but so is goal and purpose... No one is thinking of volume for a sprinter the same way one would think of volume for an endurance athlete... That's not an issue of genes. A sprinter will add volume by doing drills, practicing starts, special exercises, etc. NOT doing more balls out sprints.

In an effort to bring this back to the practical, here's a hypothetical for you to consider:

Lifter A
Max Squat = 200lbs
Training = 180lbs x 3 x 10 sets
Total Volume = 5400lb

Lifter B
Max Squat = 500lbs
Training = 450lbs x 3 x 4 sets
Total Volume = 5400lb

I know it's a contextual vacuum, but humor me. Both lifters are training at 90% intensity. I would argue that probably neither is training appropriately, but maybe.
Lifter A is a newb and could probably get by with less volume AND less intensity - the muscle strength deficit is large and recruitment gains are still accruing.
Lifter B is at least an intermediate who might be training at a higher than needed intensity. He can't handle high intensity work very often because when he puts the pedal to the metal with 90% efforts and above, it's going to be stressing the system far more than it would for a relative newb. He would be better off lowering the intensity a touch for most training sessions and adding volume w. drills, auxiliary work, etc.
Boris, thanks for the reply.

First, I'd like to clarify - I'm not against the notion that more volume leads to more results - generally speaking.

In general practice, yes of course. You want your arms to grow? Build from 6 sets to 10 sets of curls, or go from 1 day to 2 days a week of biceps, or do both as a simple illustration.

I am against the idea that in all cases more volume equals more results. Let's say you're doing 5 hours in the gym and you're not improving. Is 6, 7, 8 hours appropriate? Maybe, maybe not.

Maybe 4 hours or 3 hours would be better. You add in sports training for an athlete, plus conditioning, etc and even with sleep, drugs and a 24 hour buffet, you still might grind them down.

I'm arguing for optimal training, and against the notion that more is always better and tolerable.

I'm also against the idea that someone is a pussy because they can't handle an arbitrary workload. Maybe the workload is too much.

For your lifting analogy, both the approaches you list are fairly low volume (4-10 working sets), but for the newb it could be overkill and for the experienced lifter it's probably underwhelming.

I prefer the idea of volume as measured by the number of working sets performed versus reps x weight. Though that's a side discussion.

Lastly, I failed to clarity that the sprinter/marathon load tolerance was a function of fiber type dominance versus activity. High Type-2 fiber humans (who tend to be great sprinters), have a decreased ability to tolerate training volume. High Type-1 fiber have an increased ability. That's irrespective of sport, just a genetic facet that influences recovery.
Last edited by Bram on Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How to train yourself

Post by Bram » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:16 pm

Blaidd Drwg wrote:I wonder.......

I mean...if you take everyone as a unique starting point with unique recovery capabilities and expand those recovery capabilities over time through judicious control of intensity, WHILE INCREASING VOLUME, (relative to their starting point, chronological age, training age, hormonal profile etc. plus food, plus form, plus fundamental recovery strategies and expectation management) I wonder what might happen?

.I mean...it's obviously not a cookie cutter program but as STRATEGY, you focus on driving up volume, I wonder.......???

18056942_10207033256708351_8441916791028108451_n.jpg
That's exactly what should happen. Good work to you and her.
"If in our daily life we can smile, if we can be peaceful and happy, not only we, but everyone will profit from it. This is the most basic kind of peace work." - Thich Nhat Hanh

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Re: How to train yourself

Post by JohnDoe » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:46 pm

The answer is simple: volume.



Terrible clip, but a classic. RIP Hartman.

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Re: How to train yourself

Post by Boris » Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:54 pm

Bram wrote: I am against the idea that in all cases more volume equals more results. Let's say you're doing 5 hours in the gym and you're not improving. Is 6, 7, 8 hours appropriate? Maybe, maybe not.
No one is arguing that.
Bram wrote:I'm arguing for optimal training, and against the notion that more is always better and tolerable.
Who wouldn't argue for optimal training? No one argues that more is always better.
Bram wrote:I'm also against the idea that someone is a pussy because they can't handle an arbitrary workload. Maybe the workload is too much.
Of course, but in the context of the "hard gainer" discussion, it is worth noting that most people are far, far, FAR away from overtraining.
Bram wrote:For your lifting analogy, both the approaches you list are fairly low volume (4-10 working sets), but for the newb it could be overkill and for the experienced lifter it's probably underwhelming.
I thought I essentially said exactly that.
Bram wrote:I prefer the idea of volume as measured by the number of working sets performed versus reps x weight. Though that's a side discussion.
I think you need to think this through. Without considering tonnage moved, it's going to be very difficult to assess volume...
Bram wrote:Lastly, I failed to clarity that the sprinter/marathon load tolerance was a function of fiber type dominance versus activity. High Type-2 fiber humans (who tend to be great sprinters), have a decreased ability to tolerate training volume. High Type-1 fiber have an increased ability. That's irrespective of sport, just a genetic facet that influences recovery.
You were clear.

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Re: How to train yourself

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:02 pm

99% of that fiber type shit is theoretical and not super determinative. Who here know their fiber type? no one does because no one here has had dozens and dozens of muscle biopsies...so until then, jog on with that crap..there are very very few snowflakes..most of us are made of the same meat.
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Re: How to train yourself

Post by Shafpocalypse Now » Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:59 am

Work capacity is a trainable quality. This is where the HIT and Heavy Duty and Hardgainers of years past went wrong.

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Re: How to train yourself

Post by Boris » Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:11 am

Blaidd Drwg wrote:99% of that fiber type shit is theoretical and not super determinative. Who here know their fiber type? no one does because no one here has had dozens and dozens of muscle biopsies...so until then, jog on with that crap..there are very very few snowflakes..most of us are made of the same meat.
I'm certain my fibers are holding me back from greatness.

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Re: How to train yourself

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:23 am

Boris wrote:
Blaidd Drwg wrote:99% of that fiber type shit is theoretical and not super determinative. Who here know their fiber type? no one does because no one here has had dozens and dozens of muscle biopsies...so until then, jog on with that crap..there are very very few snowflakes..most of us are made of the same meat.
I'm certain my fibers are holding me back from greatness.
HA! That's the most common use of that science...
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Re: How to train yourself

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:26 am

Shafpocalypse Now wrote:Work capacity is a trainable quality. This is where the HIT and Heavy Duty and Hardgainers of years past went wrong.

we were joking the other night about "hardgainers"

No one could recall seeing a hard gainer who did the basics with good form.
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