Strength training priorities for endurance weenies

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odin
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Strength training priorities for endurance weenies

Post by odin » Sun May 14, 2017 5:29 pm

A fucked up shoulder and a realisation that I like being outdoors is dictating a shift to more of an endurance focus for my exercise. That said, I enjoy strength work and still want to maintain most of the health and fitness benefits strength work gives. For those experienced in this, what's a decent approach? I'm thinking non exhaustive, sub maximal stuff with long rests?? Avoid squats?? Any other tips??

For info, endurance wise I'm looking at doing 3 months lsd, slowly building volume at MAF hr zones before adding some intensity.
Don't try too hard, don't not try too hard

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Re: Strength training priorities for endurance weenies

Post by syaigh » Sun May 14, 2017 6:37 pm

I find with endurance athletes, you need to cycle how you do your strength work with your endurance intensities. Honestly, I always go for injury prevention as the top priority. Ie, a couple of big lifts to target hip strength and function and then the rest is straight up bodybuilding. I'm training a gal to do a marathon, her last one was 7 years ago and we are starting with real simple compound lifting twice a week, Trap bar, bench, assisted pullups, maybe some above parallel box squats (she's just not a squatter and it does more harm than good for her), RDLs.

Once she ups her mileage, we're going to go to much lighter lifting and power training type stuff. KB's, med balls, goblet squats, etc. Throughout the whole thing, I'm going to have her do one day of circuit training, bodybuilding type stuff to mainly train strength endurance, postural strength, and maintain joint integrity.

Truth is you don't have to do much to prevent injuries, but you can do too much if you're not used to it. I found out the hard way that not squatting (with external hip rotation, ie, push those knees out) really fucked up my hip strength and knee integrity when I was training for a half marathon. I made the mistake of just maintaining my upper body strength work and not really doing much else and that was a bad bad bad idea. Heavy squats would have been a problem, but I needed to continue to grease the groove with light and bodyweight versions of everything.
Miss Piggy wrote:Never eat more than you can lift.

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odin
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Re: Strength training priorities for endurance weenies

Post by odin » Sun May 14, 2017 8:32 pm

Thanks for that, good stuff. Does the higher rep/bb stuff not effect recovery too much?
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Re: Strength training priorities for endurance weenies

Post by Boris » Sun May 14, 2017 9:20 pm

It will if you are busting ass, but if your goal is to simply put in some work, it shouldn't.

I agree w. Syaigh. Do the basics and injury prevention stuff. When you are ramping up your sport training, it's important to adjust weight room work accordingly. It's not that complex, but it's amazing how badly people can f*** it up.

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Re: Strength training priorities for endurance weenies

Post by Ericc » Sun May 14, 2017 11:02 pm

Strength work and LSD are fine for me in almost any form - when the intensity increases (speed work) I find myself more prone to
injury. Press/squat or trap bar/swings/planks low volume would be ideal. I tend to complicate things a bit (at least right now) mostly
out of sheer vanity (I want to look better than the typical distance runner/walker) and my endurance work is so straight forward that I
look for variety and fun in my strength training.

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Re: Strength training priorities for endurance weenies

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Mon May 15, 2017 4:00 pm

odin wrote:A fucked up shoulder and a realisation that I like being outdoors is dictating a shift to more of an endurance focus for my exercise. That said, I enjoy strength work and still want to maintain most of the health and fitness benefits strength work gives. For those experienced in this, what's a decent approach? I'm thinking non exhaustive, sub maximal stuff with long rests?? Avoid squats?? Any other tips??

For info, endurance wise I'm looking at doing 3 months lsd, slowly building volume at MAF hr zones before adding some intensity.

Jacked

Strong

Great Endurance.

You can only have 2.

So......if baseline strength is the goal and lots of endurance output, then hit very basic moves for lowish reps multi sets never to failure on the strenght work. I'd say no more than 4 or 5 big moves, never more than 2 in a session and all of them should be closely related.

TBDL or Pull
Squat variation
Odd Object carry or farmers
Press of some kind
Might as well do pullups for your arms and shit.

That's your base.


Endurance is 80%+ LISS, with 20% days of speedwork, high intensity always separated by one day (pre and post) from the strength work.

Bob's your uncle.
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Re: Strength training priorities for endurance weenies

Post by Beer Jew » Mon May 15, 2017 7:29 pm

Inb4 someone says Easy Strength

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Re: Strength training priorities for endurance weenies

Post by powerlifter54 » Mon May 15, 2017 8:35 pm

Beer Jew wrote:Inb4 someone says Easy Strength
Easy strength is more for in season real sport athletes. If you spend 8 months adding 25-50lbs to play on Friday nights or Saturday afternoons you need to lift in season. But you are playing 50-75 snaps. Hence a book I really like.
"Start slowly, then ease off". Tortuga Golden Striders Running Club, Pensacola 1984.

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Re: Strength training priorities for endurance weenies

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Tue May 16, 2017 2:58 pm

If you want more food for thought on this, Alex Viada's book the Hybrid Athlete is a good jumping off point.
"He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that." JS Mill

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Re: Strength training priorities for endurance weenies

Post by climber511 » Tue May 16, 2017 3:34 pm

Blaidd Drwg wrote:If you want more food for thought on this, Alex Viada's book the Hybrid Athlete is a good jumping off point.
How is his book? Worth the money - gonna have to be something I haven't read before to crack my wallet open? The bits and pieces I have seen seemed like nothing all that special. A gifted athlete did strength and endurance at a pretty high level - but not really at the same time like seems to be insinuated. Worth it?

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Re: Strength training priorities for endurance weenies

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Tue May 16, 2017 5:11 pm

climber511 wrote:
Blaidd Drwg wrote:If you want more food for thought on this, Alex Viada's book the Hybrid Athlete is a good jumping off point.
How is his book? Worth the money - gonna have to be something I haven't read before to crack my wallet open? The bits and pieces I have seen seemed like nothing all that special. A gifted athlete did strength and endurance at a pretty high level - but not really at the same time like seems to be insinuated. Worth it?
Tough for me to be objective.

I've met and hung out with Alex. Hard to separate the pieces I know from talking with him and the pieces I got out of the book. I'll try to come at the question in another way.

My general stance on most ebooks is like remakes of popular movies. I used to bristle at remaking Batman and Daredevil or Star Trek over and over...it's done,. quit fucking with it. But then...none of these stories are remotely unique...just as few sports practices that work are remotely unique. Remaking is how we advance the ball, we retool our mythology until it fits a new time and place. S&C Best practice guides, even science heavy ones like AV's book, are similar in their effect. New Knowledge gets built in small pieces, through a gradual accretion. So will YOU get something mindblowing out of it? not likely...you're old and you already know everything, and like me, you're prone to this most crippling of intellectual reflexes..."Well Of Course that's how it works...DUH.,.." Not a slam on you, just an observation that a lot of us with mileage who focus on big picture stuff do that. We forget to look for the nuances where we disagree and think about why that is. I liked Alex's book and his other writing because it challenged me to rethink something I already agreed with.

There are many parts of the book, specifically the way he sets up templates for differing pursuits that i think are worth thinking about, reverse engineering and focusing on the nuances. So yeah...I think it's a good book and worth it. It adds a lot to the current conversation.
"He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that." JS Mill

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Re: Strength training priorities for endurance weenies

Post by Mike Caviston » Thu May 18, 2017 12:53 am

odin wrote:For info, endurance wise I'm looking at doing 3 months lsd, slowly building volume at MAF hr zones before adding some intensity.
Doing what? Running, cycling? Other?

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odin
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Re: Strength training priorities for endurance weenies

Post by odin » Thu May 18, 2017 5:36 pm

Hi Mike, just been reading some of your articles coincidentally. I will be mostly running, but may do some ad hoc swimming too as I enjoy it. Running will be my main measurable training element though.
Don't try too hard, don't not try too hard

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