IGX "...overflowing with foulmouthed ignorance."

IGX "...overflowing with foulmouthed ignorance."
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 Post subject: I sometimes wonder
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 6:18 am 
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I sometimes wonder, what the fuck is going on... A friend mentioned Rhonda Patrick on Ferris' podcast, in particular, that she mentioned research proving that intermittent fasting makes you lose weight even if you eat more (the usual bullshit). To get an idea what it was about I listened to the whole episode during a long drive. My interest was mostly sparked by the mention of fasting and sauna. But what I got was another illustration of the modern affluent societies: people with the lowest risk of health problems and death being the most scared of getting sick and dying.

I guess this is the way it's going to go, obsessing about molecules, eating a bunch of nutrients and micro elements instead of food and obsessing about everything that may possibly be harmful - a can of Coke or a slice of cake. Kale and broccoli sprouts smoothies. Seasoning daikon with ground mustard seeds because it activates some enzyme that converts some shit to sulforaphane (which makes you immortal). I am not even touching the fact that all research she talks about is taken at research at face value - most of it being done on mice, and most human data comes from epidemiological studies with the multitude of confounders. Sure, there is nothing wrong with looking after your health. But the sheer obsession with "healthy" - whatever it means - is strange at least. Not that I have anything personal against Rhonda Patrick, but the fact that she has a huge following fucks with my mind. I will rather stick with the likes of Hunter Thompson, Keith Richards and Charlie Sheen; none of them - I am guessing - have optimal size of apolipopritein B particles and CRP levels. But hell, listening to these guys is way more fun that spending time on Mark Sisson, Rhonda Patrick or Art De Vany.

On the last note. A few years ago I anaesthetised a lady for bilateral mastectomy (removal of both breasts). It was a palliative procedure for cancer that spread everywhere. When I asked her the usual questions about her health before surgery it turned out the lady didn't have any medical conditions common for her age group - hypertension, type 2 diabetes, "cholesterol" etc. I complimented her on that, and she proudly said that she has always looked after her health: "I never smoked, eat meat only rarely, don't drink, regularly exercise and look after my health..." And I was thinking, all this restrain completely wasted, now that she was dying of cancer.

What I am getting at is, it's not about the quantity, but quality, whatever it means for each of us. Not about who dies last in the old age home (with the most toys), but living life. Something is eventually going to kill you. Sure, don't make it faster, but I don't see the point of obsessing about every possible risk hazard in my life.

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 Post subject: Re: I sometimes wonder
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:17 pm 
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A friend mentioned Rhonda Patrick on Ferris' podcast, in particular, that she mentioned research proving that intermittent fasting makes you lose weight even if you eat more (the usual bullshit).
Your friend may have misunderstood. I've listened to it and she doesn't claim that. Patrick is almost tedious with how much she references studies to back up statements, and is upfront when data looks promising but preliminary or sample sizes are small.

It's almost odd that Tim is interested in her work. She's got about as much sizzle as Rain Man.

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 Post subject: Re: I sometimes wonder
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 5:51 pm 
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A friend mentioned Rhonda Patrick on Ferris' podcast, in particular, that she mentioned research proving that intermittent fasting makes you lose weight even if you eat more (the usual bullshit).
Your friend may have misunderstood. I've listened to it and she doesn't claim that. Patrick is almost tedious with how much she references studies to back up statements, and is upfront when data looks promising but preliminary or sample sizes are small.

It's almost odd that Tim is interested in her work. She's got about as much sizzle as Rain Man.
And yet, the second time I listened to her on Rogan, the feeling that I was being sold bullshit was so strong that I unsubscribed.
She's involved with Onnit, isn't she? It was awhile ago, but IIRC I felt as though I was listening to an Onnit infomercial.

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 Post subject: Re: I sometimes wonder
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 7:13 pm 
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It's not that her stuff isn't backed up, it's that so much of it is done with mice, like Smet said.


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 Post subject: Re: I sometimes wonder
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 10:47 pm 
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she mentioned research proving that intermittent fasting makes you lose weight even if you eat more (the usual bullshit)
There may be "some" truth to this.

I may or may not have mentioned that I have some neurological issues (in addition to being a fatass). My GP and Neurologist both recommend the Ketogenic diet. I have been trying to read as many peer reviewed papers as I can find. There is evidence that fasting will produce ketones and help put you into ketosis.

Most of the research has been done on mice.


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 Post subject: Re: I sometimes wonder
PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 1:39 am 
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Environmental factors outside of your control cause 90% of cancers in concert with your genetics which cause everything else. Eating like the fat lady at the circus causes a whole lot of other stuff. Eat well to prevent the freak show, see your doctor to fight your genetics, pray for everything else. Probably wont help physiologically, but you will feel better about it.

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 Post subject: Re: I sometimes wonder
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:56 am 
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What the fuck has happened with the last couple of posts? My and Turd's responses seem to have disappeared.

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Last edited by Sangoma on Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: I sometimes wonder
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:57 am 
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A friend mentioned Rhonda Patrick on Ferris' podcast, in particular, that she mentioned research proving that intermittent fasting makes you lose weight even if you eat more (the usual bullshit).
Your friend may have misunderstood. I've listened to it and she doesn't claim that. Patrick is almost tedious with how much she references studies to back up statements, and is upfront when data looks promising but preliminary or sample sizes are small.

It's almost odd that Tim is interested in her work. She's got about as much sizzle as Rain Man.
You are right, the friend indeed misunderstood. Intermittently mice were leaner than freely fed, not the same as losing more weight. As far as the sizzle is concerned, I think you may underestimate it. She was on Joe Rogan podcast which has about 60 million listeners a month, and even if we assume that couple of percent are obsessing health freaks (likely more), her following is considerable.

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 Post subject: Re: I sometimes wonder
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:00 am 
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I wonder where the fascination with ketosis comes from. Sure, it is useful in some forms of severe epilepsy. However, there is a)no evidence that it is good for health and b)there is evidence of harm - decreased thyroid function, serotonin levels, sexual drive etc., etc. Fasting is associated with ketosis, but ketosis is not why fasting works. Drinking ketones for health is similar to pouring artificial sweat on your body: you sweat when you exercise, right?

Coming back to the obsession with healthy eating, there is actually a term for it: orthorexia. It is qualified as another form of eating disorder. It ranges from obsession with healthy eating to the exclusion of food groups (anything with sugar, for example) and eventually malnutrition and social dysfunction - can't accept your dinner invitation because I don't eat pizza, fat, gluten, dairy, fried, deep fried etc., etc.

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 Post subject: Re: I sometimes wonder
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:35 am 
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A friend mentioned Rhonda Patrick on Ferris' podcast, in particular, that she mentioned research proving that intermittent fasting makes you lose weight even if you eat more (the usual bullshit).
Your friend may have misunderstood. I've listened to it and she doesn't claim that. Patrick is almost tedious with how much she references studies to back up statements, and is upfront when data looks promising but preliminary or sample sizes are small.

It's almost odd that Tim is interested in her work. She's got about as much sizzle as Rain Man.
I've heard Ferriss say this, citing her research.

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 Post subject: Re: I sometimes wonder
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:28 pm 
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The social media world has driven all the first world dbaggery of the wellness/fitness community to insane levels.

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 Post subject: Re: I sometimes wonder
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:51 pm 
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The only interesting point about ketosis is how hard D'Augustino is trying to sell it for cancer treatment, when it's pretty hit or miss with helping even in small ways. Oh, actually the diving shit with ketosis is pretty interesting.

I find it pretty interesting that when someone points out Dom's conflicts of interests, they get shouted down


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 Post subject: Re: I sometimes wonder
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:13 pm 
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But what I got was another illustration of the modern affluent societies: people with the lowest risk of health problems and death being the most scared of getting sick and dying.
Not sure what responses got deleted of yours and mine, but the above contains the Riddle of the Spinx in modern healthcare finance. Some countries have cracked that nut; the US isn't one of them.

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 Post subject: Re: I sometimes wonder
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:03 am 
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Smet,
I have listened to Rhonda Patrick on Rogan a couple of times, and possibly another health podcast too, can't remember. The thing that jumped out at me about her was that most things she is studying, discussing or is knowledgeable about are massively fear based.

She is eating to 'not get sick' and she is doing so via a reductionist 'counting molecules' manner. This is the epitome of western allopathic health... Or the basis of the new breed of health-nut, the "Organopath".

These people are NOT into what I would call 'wellness', as the term was originally meme'd into the lexicon. Wellness is about seeking to support nature in the creation of health, not eliminate disease (thus, seeking wellness was an holistic endeavour). The organopath's venture appears to be wellness and holism but, in the doing, it becomes a means to treat or preemptively inoculate oneself against evil and fearful maladies using 'natural' or 'organic' products and foodstuffs as 'medicines'.

This may all seem nothing more than semantics to some, but I believe the 'intention' is very different, leading to the way we go about it being different and therefore creating results that are also different. In fact, to relate to another current thread the very 'mindset' or intention may have a fairly substantial effect on the outcome.

We are what we are because nature strives to create more life... Omeba to Mammal etc. As this happens, life (in it's natural environment and honouring its natural cycles) oscillates through chaos and coherence, gradually to ever increasing levels of complexity. Any interference in this process becomes a reduction in coherence carried through to the next level of complexity (a lack of transaction). Leading to noise in the system.
Part of the system must then reduce it level of complexity to find a level at which it can sustain coherence. This leads to a disconnected system. Signs of this in the human system are what we call pathology. Oh, and before anyone says it, death is a natural part of a healthy life process. Anyhow...

"The area of greatest challenge and therefore the area for greatest impact in turning the tide of modern health decline (a curious decline, despite more and more technology and affluence), is in the area of how our neuroception subconsciously perceives and processes our living environment. Until such a time as this becomes first recognised as 'a thing' and respected as important, the decline will continue. Regardless of how clever we think we can become at reducing a whole system into disparate parts and finding the molecule of health" - Terra.

Mark my words.

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 Post subject: Re: I sometimes wonder
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:53 pm 
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That was a very astute observation Terra.


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 Post subject: Re: I sometimes wonder
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 5:38 pm 
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But what I got was another illustration of the modern affluent societies: people with the lowest risk of health problems and death being the most scared of getting sick and dying.
Not sure what responses got deleted of yours and mine, but the above contains the Riddle of the Spinx in modern healthcare finance. Some countries have cracked that nut; the US isn't one of them.

Llolol it is just minorities sucking up most of the resources with fubar diet and consequent expensive end of life care.


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 Post subject: Re: I sometimes wonder
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:28 pm 
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But what I got was another illustration of the modern affluent societies: people with the lowest risk of health problems and death being the most scared of getting sick and dying.
Not sure what responses got deleted of yours and mine, but the above contains the Riddle of the Spinx in modern healthcare finance. Some countries have cracked that nut; the US isn't one of them.

Llolol it is just minorities sucking up most of the resources with fubar diet and consequent expensive end of life care.
The giant whiteys in the combo wheelchair shopping carts at my local suburban Walmart are contrary evidence to the minority aspect of that comment. FUBAR diet and obscenely expensive gov't supplied healthcare for the last 10-20 years of their shortened lives is all too correct.

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 Post subject: Re: I sometimes wonder
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:46 pm 
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But what I got was another illustration of the modern affluent societies: people with the lowest risk of health problems and death being the most scared of getting sick and dying.
Not sure what responses got deleted of yours and mine, but the above contains the Riddle of the Spinx in modern healthcare finance. Some countries have cracked that nut; the US isn't one of them.

Llolol it is just minorities sucking up most of the resources with fubar diet and consequent expensive end of life care.
The giant whiteys in the combo wheelchair shopping carts at my local suburban Walmart are contrary evidence to the minority aspect of that comment. FUBAR diet and obscenely expensive gov't supplied healthcare for the last 10-20 years of their shortened lives is all too correct.
THIS.
And re the minorities: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-32910129

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 Post subject: Re: I sometimes wonder
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:33 pm 
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IIRC, Patrick cites numerous studies re: humans.

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 Post subject: Re: I sometimes wonder
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:43 pm 
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Quote:
But what I got was another illustration of the modern affluent societies: people with the lowest risk of health problems and death being the most scared of getting sick and dying.
Not sure what responses got deleted of yours and mine, but the above contains the Riddle of the Spinx in modern healthcare finance. Some countries have cracked that nut; the US isn't one of them.

Llolol it is just minorities sucking up most of the resources with fubar diet and consequent expensive end of life care.
The giant whiteys in the combo wheelchair shopping carts at my local suburban Walmart are contrary evidence to the minority aspect of that comment. FUBAR diet and obscenely expensive gov't supplied healthcare for the last 10-20 years of their shortened lives is all too correct.
THIS.
And re the minorities: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-32910129
God damn it turd you are such a liar. The half truths with you are malignant. Your article cites to the health of actual adult Mexican immigrants. This is a portion of minorities. The article ADMITS that 2nd and 3rd gen squatemalans have worse health than whites. And especially chronic diseases like diabetes.


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 Post subject: Re: I sometimes wonder
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:44 pm 
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
But what I got was another illustration of the modern affluent societies: people with the lowest risk of health problems and death being the most scared of getting sick and dying.
Not sure what responses got deleted of yours and mine, but the above contains the Riddle of the Spinx in modern healthcare finance. Some countries have cracked that nut; the US isn't one of them.

Llolol it is just minorities sucking up most of the resources with fubar diet and consequent expensive end of life care.
The giant whiteys in the combo wheelchair shopping carts at my local suburban Walmart are contrary evidence to the minority aspect of that comment. FUBAR diet and obscenely expensive gov't supplied healthcare for the last 10-20 years of their shortened lives is all too correct.

How many lvls of NAXALT are you on bro?


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 Post subject: Re: I sometimes wonder
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:25 pm 
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She's tedious AF. Tumeric? Go fuck yourself. She's strikes me as worst kind of shyster.....the one who tells the absolute truth absolutely out of context.

Eat pretty good.
Exercise pretty often,
manage your stress level.
laugh.

These get you to 98% of where she's sending people. I'm not saying..."BRAH JUST DO 5X5 and shut up" I'm really not trying to be reductionist about super complex things and I acknowledge much of what seems simple is not nor is it easy...so, lets focus on making it clearer and easier. Finessing people's individual psychology to help form better habits or make positive quality of life changes...that's a +1. Touting Tumeric or Cinammon or Coq10 or ZERO PROCESSED ANYTHING EVER....or whatever the fuck she's on about now, as a solution to anything?

NEGREP infinity.

She's staked her practice to very slim bits of emerging science that for her audience has absolutely FUCK ALL value. She's the popular mechanics of nutrient woo.

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 Post subject: Re: I sometimes wonder
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:37 am 
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She's the popular mechanics of nutrient woo.
Brutal. This and "the Deepak Chopra of the bro-hack movement" are A+ insults.

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 Post subject: Re: I sometimes wonder
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 4:37 pm 
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manage your stress level.
I was always of a mindset that non-physical techniques for stress management were almost required to be based on Asian meditation practices and Buddhist style mindfulness. It never "took" with me.

Lately I've been incorporating some Stoic techniques for life management into my outlook and I'm probably 25% less stressed by life's daily annoyances.

Minor Example:Tuesday stuck in the parking lot known as the JFK Expressway at 4:00 PM in Chicago.
Original Thought: "Fuck this city. Fuck this traffic. Fuck Rahm Emanuel. I'm delayed, shit."
Revised Thought: "It's 4 o'clock in Chicago, what did you expect? Everyone's stuck in traffic, are you special? Do you have gas, does your air conditioner, phone & radio work? Yes? Then shut up and settle down". And I did settle down...mostly.

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 Post subject: Re: I sometimes wonder
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 5:52 pm 
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Minor Example:Tuesday stuck in the parking lot known as the JFK Expressway at 4:00 PM in Chicago.
Original Thought: "Fuck this city. Fuck this traffic. Fuck Rahm Emanuel. I'm delayed, shit."
Revised Thought: "It's 4 o'clock in Chicago, what did you expect? Everyone's stuck in traffic, are you special? Do you have gas, does your air conditioner, phone & radio work? Yes? Then shut up and settle down". And I did settle down...mostly.

This reminds me of Beck's cognitive therapy. Basically, reframing one's thoughts/perspective on a problem.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_therapy

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