I just had this crazy idea...

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SubClaw
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I just had this crazy idea...

Post by SubClaw » Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:59 am

Let's say you start off the first cycle doing sets of eight reps. And keep doing it until you stall, however long it takes.

Next time, decrease the load a bit (say, 10%) and start doing sets of five. The number of sets should remain the same during the whole cycle, so there's a volume decrease as well. This should be keeping you comfortably busy for a while.

When you hit a plateau again, decrease the load and switch to sets of three.

Finally, when you hit a wall doing triples, go back to the load you were using when you first stalled doing sets of eight (this might be hard on your ego) and start the cycle all over again.

Is this a feasible approach?

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Re: I just had this crazy idea...

Post by Ryan » Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:54 pm

SubClaw wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:59 am
Let's say you start off the first cycle doing sets of eight reps. And keep doing it until you stall, however long it takes.

Next time, decrease the load a bit (say, 10%) and start doing sets of five. The number of sets should remain the same during the whole cycle, so there's a volume decrease as well. This should be keeping you comfortably busy for a while.

When you hit a plateau again, decrease the load and switch to sets of three.

Finally, when you hit a wall doing triples, go back to the load you were using when you first stalled doing sets of eight (this might be hard on your ego) and start the cycle all over again.

Is this a feasible approach?
I saw a program that did this exact thing, but I can't remember where I saw it.
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Re: I just had this crazy idea...

Post by Sangoma » Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:56 pm

Decrease the load for sets of five or increase? If decrease, can you explain the logic behind it?

I think it was Fred Hatfield's program that used cycles of 15, 10 and five reps, each for four weeks (I think). But you increased the load when moving to lower rep cycle.
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Re: I just had this crazy idea...

Post by Bram » Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:22 am

Comrade, an article please!
"If you live through defeat, you are not defeated. If you are beaten but acquire wisdom, you have won." - RZA

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Re: I just had this crazy idea...

Post by SubClaw » Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:48 am

Sangoma wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:56 pm
Decrease the load for sets of five or increase? If decrease, can you explain the logic behind it?
When you hit a plateau doing eight rep sets, decreasing the load a bit and start doing sets of five ensures a few really easy weeks before you start struggling to move the weights. I suppose you could just reduce the number of reps and resume training using the same load you stalled at, but I was playing overly cautious.

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Re: I just had this crazy idea...

Post by Beer Jew » Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:34 pm

“A training discussion between three people who have never trained”

:flex

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Re: I just had this crazy idea...

Post by Sangoma » Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:57 am

SubClaw wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:48 am
Sangoma wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:56 pm
Decrease the load for sets of five or increase? If decrease, can you explain the logic behind it?
When you hit a plateau doing eight rep sets, decreasing the load a bit and start doing sets of five ensures a few really easy weeks before you start struggling to move the weights. I suppose you could just reduce the number of reps and resume training using the same load you stalled at, but I was playing overly cautious.
Thanks, man, I get it. I read somewhere that older trainees are intensity sensitive. Meaning that when the intensity is reduced they lose strength fairly quickly. Not sure what to make of this though. Maybe it makes sense to not reduce the load too much.

There are so many tricks to get through plateaus, my problem is that I am too lazy to use any of them. I just take a "deload"...
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Re: I just had this crazy idea...

Post by SubClaw » Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:20 am

Beer Jew wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:34 pm
“A training discussion between three people who have never trained”

:flex
Hush now, soap bar, and let the grown-ups do the talking.

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Re: I just had this crazy idea...

Post by JimZipCode » Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:16 am

Sangoma wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:57 am
There are so many tricks to get through plateaus
One year into lifting, I have yet to get thru a single plateau. All I've done so far is back off, and hit it again.

Well, there's always this time.
“War is the remedy our enemies have chosen. Other simple remedies were within their choice. You know it and they know it, but they wanted war, and I say let us give them all they want.”
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Re: I just had this crazy idea...

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:28 pm

JimZipCode wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:16 am
Sangoma wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:57 am
There are so many tricks to get through plateaus
One year into lifting, I have yet to get thru a single plateau. All I've done so far is back off, and hit it again.

Well, there's always this time.
That's truly bizarre. What do you think you're doing wrong?
"He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that." JS Mill

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Re: I just had this crazy idea...

Post by JimZipCode » Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:08 pm

Blaidd Drwg wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:28 pm
That's truly bizarre. What do you think you're doing wrong?
Hard to say. Off the top of my head:

  • Not adhering to my lifting schedule.
Into about June I was rock-solid with my 3x per week. After we put the offer in on the house, my compliance went to shit. Very busy with house-related stuff, packing and closing and moving and cleaning the old place and painting and unpacking and closing again, yadda yadda yadda. The smoke didn't clear until September; but stuff at work ramped up in August. With one thing and another, I've been lucky to lift once a week these past few months.

  • Not getting enough sleep
Work got crazy in September. I am frequently up til 3am working, then back up at 7:30 to take the boy to school. Snatching catnaps during the day between things for work.

  • Eating like a teenager
When I get serious coding and troubleshooting and late nights, I frequently revert to eating chips and cookies and chocolate. That's happened in a big way these past couple months. Earlier in the year I had diet under control with plenty of milk and yogurt and salads and meat. Not so much recently.

I mean, those are just guesses. It could just be that I need to buy some more gear or watch some different videos, or something.
“War is the remedy our enemies have chosen. Other simple remedies were within their choice. You know it and they know it, but they wanted war, and I say let us give them all they want.”
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Re: I just had this crazy idea...

Post by Sangoma » Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:07 am

Side note. I read this book by J.Sullivan, Barbell Prescription, Strength Training for Life After 40. Very good strength training book for older trainees, from beginners to advanced. Very systematic approach to training, though nothing ground breaking. From linear progression to sophisticated periodisation. The author is a doctor, which by itself is not a promise or a guarantee of anything, but his take on training is similar to that of dealing with medical conditions: gradual and systematic. Anyway, worth reading. Probably the best book on strength training for Masters I have seen.

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They describe quite a few approaches to continue progress, a.k.a. breaking through plateaus.
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Re: I just had this crazy idea...

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:10 pm

JimZipCode wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:08 pm
Blaidd Drwg wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:28 pm
That's truly bizarre. What do you think you're doing wrong?
Hard to say. Off the top of my head:

  • Not adhering to my lifting schedule.
Into about June I was rock-solid with my 3x per week. After we put the offer in on the house, my compliance went to shit. Very busy with house-related stuff, packing and closing and moving and cleaning the old place and painting and unpacking and closing again, yadda yadda yadda. The smoke didn't clear until September; but stuff at work ramped up in August. With one thing and another, I've been lucky to lift once a week these past few months.

  • Not getting enough sleep
Work got crazy in September. I am frequently up til 3am working, then back up at 7:30 to take the boy to school. Snatching catnaps during the day between things for work.

  • Eating like a teenager
When I get serious coding and troubleshooting and late nights, I frequently revert to eating chips and cookies and chocolate. That's happened in a big way these past couple months. Earlier in the year I had diet under control with plenty of milk and yogurt and salads and meat. Not so much recently.

I mean, those are just guesses. It could just be that I need to buy some more gear or watch some different videos, or something.
I will bet you a substantial amount of money it's that simple. Unless your progression is straight up retarded, you should be making some amount of progress.

A separate line of discussion is how you're measuring and thinking about what progress is but attend to your list of things even a little...even committing to 2 days a week no matter what and you'll probably move forward.
"He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that." JS Mill

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Re: I just had this crazy idea...

Post by JimZipCode » Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:28 pm

Blaidd Drwg wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:10 pm
...even committing to 2 days a week no matter what and you'll probably move forward.
Thanks. Was thinking about doing exactly that.

One question I had about lifting 2 days a week. I've been doing an A/B split, where A is basically squat/bench/row and B is dead/press/pull-up. (Both days also include abs and some other stuff.) Can I make progress lifting twice a week while maintaining an A/B split? That seems unlikely to me: each lift would get only one session a week. I mean, I get that it would be an improvement over what I've managed recently; but it doesn't seem like a recipe for progress.

If I go to 2 days a week, should I consolidate the workout to hit everything each session? So that each lift is getting hit twice a week? Or, some kind of compromise where I do all the shoulder stuff each time, but alternate squat & dead?
“War is the remedy our enemies have chosen. Other simple remedies were within their choice. You know it and they know it, but they wanted war, and I say let us give them all they want.”
― William Tecumseh Sherman

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Re: I just had this crazy idea...

Post by Ryan » Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:55 pm

JimZipCode wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:28 pm
Blaidd Drwg wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:10 pm
...even committing to 2 days a week no matter what and you'll probably move forward.
Thanks. Was thinking about doing exactly that.

One question I had about lifting 2 days a week. I've been doing an A/B split, where A is basically squat/bench/row and B is dead/press/pull-up. (Both days also include abs and some other stuff.) Can I make progress lifting twice a week while maintaining an A/B split? That seems unlikely to me: each lift would get only one session a week. I mean, I get that it would be an improvement over what I've managed recently; but it doesn't seem like a recipe for progress.

If I go to 2 days a week, should I consolidate the workout to hit everything each session? So that each lift is getting hit twice a week? Or, some kind of compromise where I do all the shoulder stuff each time, but alternate squat & dead?
You can absolutely progress. I've been training twice a week for years. Its about the consistency.
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Re: I just had this crazy idea...

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:04 pm

JimZipCode wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:28 pm
Blaidd Drwg wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:10 pm
...even committing to 2 days a week no matter what and you'll probably move forward.
Thanks. Was thinking about doing exactly that.

One question I had about lifting 2 days a week. I've been doing an A/B split, where A is basically squat/bench/row and B is dead/press/pull-up. (Both days also include abs and some other stuff.) Can I make progress lifting twice a week while maintaining an A/B split? That seems unlikely to me: each lift would get only one session a week. I mean, I get that it would be an improvement over what I've managed recently; but it doesn't seem like a recipe for progress.

If I go to 2 days a week, should I consolidate the workout to hit everything each session? So that each lift is getting hit twice a week? Or, some kind of compromise where I do all the shoulder stuff each time, but alternate squat & dead?
My trainign partner in PL trains twice a week. 2 days in a row. Sq/DL on Saturday. Bench Sunday. You can absolutely make progress.
"He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that." JS Mill

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Re: I just had this crazy idea...

Post by JimZipCode » Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:59 pm

Sweet. Thx guys.
“War is the remedy our enemies have chosen. Other simple remedies were within their choice. You know it and they know it, but they wanted war, and I say let us give them all they want.”
― William Tecumseh Sherman

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