Time pressed endurance training

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odin
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Time pressed endurance training

Post by odin » Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:13 am

Just wanting to open up a debate on sensible training approaches for average blokes who want to do some endurance stuff as a hobby...

Brief history/context; I got into doing a bit of running last year and started with Maffetone style stuff, keeping my HR nice and low all the time. It was a good way to train initially and got my mileage up without causing injury. However, I have pretty much maxed out my available training hours. I can squeeze in 3-4 running hours a week plus 2 brief strength sessions while the kids do sports. I guess this is a familiar set up for lots of people on here too.

So, how best to use these hours to maximise my abilities without spazzing out and getting injured?

Recently/currently, I am trying a somewhat traditional approach of:
1 X medium hard run, (sweet spot effort - HR 150-160 bpm after a 15 min warm up)
1 X hill repeats
1 X long run (aiming to rebuild up to a 2 hour effort)

I could maybe squeeze a 20 min easy session in here and there too around lunch, but I've avoided this so far due to fear of smashing my knees up.
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Re: Time pressed endurance training

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:28 pm

odin wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:13 am
Just wanting to open up a debate on sensible training approaches for average blokes who want to do some endurance stuff as a hobby...

Brief history/context; I got into doing a bit of running last year and started with Maffetone style stuff, keeping my HR nice and low all the time. It was a good way to train initially and got my mileage up without causing injury. However, I have pretty much maxed out my available training hours. I can squeeze in 3-4 running hours a week plus 2 brief strength sessions while the kids do sports. I guess this is a familiar set up for lots of people on here too.

So, how best to use these hours to maximise my abilities without spazzing out and getting injured?

Recently/currently, I am trying a somewhat traditional approach of:
1 X medium hard run, (sweet spot effort - HR 150-160 bpm after a 15 min warm up)
1 X hill repeats
1 X long run (aiming to rebuild up to a 2 hour effort)

I could maybe squeeze a 20 min easy session in here and there too around lunch, but I've avoided this so far due to fear of smashing my knees up.
I'd swap the hill repeats for skill repeats on varied terrain. Fartlek style if you need the higher intensity. Focus on gait and skill will get you farther towards long runs than focus on hill power.

You can also throw in 10-20 min. drill days if you find you can combine them with something else.
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Re: Time pressed endurance training

Post by Alfred_E._Neuman » Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:17 am

Agree with BD to go with drills over hill repeats if the goal is to get faster on your limited training time. Running hills get the HR high quickly, but alters your gait enough that it doesn't necessarily train you to go fast on the flats. Think of hill repeats as specific strength work for runners and good cardio GP fitness types.

The Long-Interval-Tempo trio has worked well for may time crunched runners, with skills used as warm-up and cool-down. If you have specific goals like running a certain time in a trail race you'd need to dial in the workouts, but to just get faster I'd keep it more free form. Fartleks are an easy way to work intervals in. And tempo would just be finding that sweet spot where you're working hard but not blowing up. Keep the long run at Maffetone HR to make sure you're not pushing too hard.
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Re: Time pressed endurance training

Post by Gav » Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:39 pm

Disagree on ditching the hill repeats, especially if Odin is over 40. They have been shown to improve running economy and speed.

What I would do is rotate what you do on your medium run. One time do fartlek, another time add in some drills like mentioned previously and also progression runs are great.
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Re: Time pressed endurance training

Post by dkay » Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:33 am

I'm jealous - I loved my long, slow jogs for years (especially in the dead of Canadian winters doing trails) and a couple of terrible marathons. My dream was to spend my 50s until death travelling around North America a few times a year to Try and finish whatever ultra was on offer, but a disc compression injury about 5 years ago ended all of that. Now, a jogging in any "posture" is excruciating after about 30 seconds, I can walk for about 1 hr and then my left foot goes numb, BUT I can do hill sprints (I can squat and deadlift without any pain). So I hill sprint a few times a week at a 75% or so PER.

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Re: Time pressed endurance training

Post by Alfred_E._Neuman » Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:26 am

dkay wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:33 am
I'm jealous - I loved my long, slow jogs for years (especially in the dead of Canadian winters doing trails) and a couple of terrible marathons. My dream was to spend my 50s until death travelling around North America a few times a year to Try and finish whatever ultra was on offer, but a disc compression injury about 5 years ago ended all of that. Now, a jogging in any "posture" is excruciating after about 30 seconds, I can walk for about 1 hr and then my left foot goes numb, BUT I can do hill sprints (I can squat and deadlift without any pain). So I hill sprint a few times a week at a 75% or so PER.
Can you ride a bike without pain? If so, that could be a good substitute for the running and there's plenty of bike destinations in the US and Canada to keep a retirement busy.
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Re: Time pressed endurance training

Post by dkay » Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:08 am

Alfred_E._Neuman wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:26 am
dkay wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:33 am
I'm jealous - I loved my long, slow jogs for years (especially in the dead of Canadian winters doing trails) and a couple of terrible marathons. My dream was to spend my 50s until death travelling around North America a few times a year to Try and finish whatever ultra was on offer, but a disc compression injury about 5 years ago ended all of that. Now, a jogging in any "posture" is excruciating after about 30 seconds, I can walk for about 1 hr and then my left foot goes numb, BUT I can do hill sprints (I can squat and deadlift without any pain). So I hill sprint a few times a week at a 75% or so PER.
Can you ride a bike without pain? If so, that could be a good substitute for the running and there's plenty of bike destinations in the US and Canada to keep a retirement busy.
Thanks for the input. I have a mountain bike that I use for very short errands, rides with kids, sometimes ride to work. I also have an Airdyne in the basement that I use infrequently for intervals (my preference is hill running or 50/10 or 50/20 sandbag clean/squat/press) I get a bit of foot numbness after about an hour. For some reason, I have never found long distance cycling very compelling. Where I live, there are miles of pine needle covered trails - just perfect for long, slow "ill just go for another 10k" jogs. Waah!

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