Exercise to Build Quads in the first Quarter of a Squat

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Bram
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Re: Exercise to Build Quads in the first Quarter of a Squat

Post by Bram » Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:44 pm

Sangoma wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:01 am
Hey, Bram, how about this. I am sure this guy is a hell of a surfer.

Image
I know you're being ridiculous, but standing on one-leg doing slow front kicks does have some carry-over. I tried a bunch of slow kicks for multiple sets from different angles to see if I could tell any benefit. It helps with driving into your turns, I try to do those or leg extensions semi-regularly even though I'm weak as fuck at them. No comment on the bodyblades lol.
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Re: Exercise to Build Quads in the first Quarter of a Squat

Post by Bram » Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:50 pm

nafod wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:50 pm
Nafod says:

I would definitely never give up a chance to surf in order to go to the gym to train to surf.
If it's one or the other, surfing wins....especially if it's great conditions.

I seem to get worse pretty quickly without gym sessions, so I try not to make it one or the other.

Ideally I'll lift early, then surf, and skip no more than a week in the gym if the surf is pumping.

Sally Fitzgibbons, who just finished 2nd in the world, trains in the gym at something like 430 everyday, then surfs at dawn and throughout the day. I feel like if I really want to get the best results, that's what I should be doing to maximize my opportunities in the water.

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Last edited by Bram on Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Exercise to Build Quads in the first Quarter of a Squat

Post by Bram » Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:52 pm

Shapecharge wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:26 pm
The wife and I were in Scottsdale a few weeks ago on a little vacation and I went into the resort gym and saw they had a leg machine I'd never seen before. Basically there was a low rail that you straddled standing, with a chest pad that you leaned slightly forward on with a couple of handles you grabbed a hold of for stability. There was a foot pad on the rail that swiveled from side to side. So you basically put your foot on it and pushed it back. It went straight back on a linear path, not up in the air. There was a selector-type weight stack for resistance. I though this machine was pretty cool...not down too much with the machines especially leg based ones but I had done a 5k on the C2 and then I fucked around with this and it burned my quads up more than I had felt in a long time.
You talking about this?

Image

We have it at my gym, never fucked with it though.
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Re: Exercise to Build Quads in the first Quarter of a Squat

Post by Shapecharge » Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:57 pm

Well shit Bram, that's exactly it. Give it a turn and see what you think. I'm a member of a Lifetime nearby my house and they don't or I'd hit it for a month or so just to see what the carryover to other things might be.

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Re: Exercise to Build Quads in the first Quarter of a Squat

Post by Bram » Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:15 pm

I think it's a glute machine :-k I'll give it a go though yo.
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Re: Exercise to Build Quads in the first Quarter of a Squat

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:53 am

When I occasionally wonder...what's goin on at IGX, I have only to pull up threads like this where a question is asked.

"what's a good exercise to build quads in the first quarter of a squat."


Here's a hint as to how fucking asinine this is.....review


"first quarter of a SQUAT"

A

Squat.



Jesus fuck.

If somehow the subject athlete is an invalid or otherwise crippled, we could turn to a host of known, bone simple, ultra fucking basic movements to develop high hip strength/endurance/tone specifically in the anterior chain. .........we have this....
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Re: Exercise to Build Quads in the first Quarter of a Squat

Post by Bram » Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:13 am

I don't feel like loading 495 or whatever would be needed to effectively weight that top ROM.
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Re: Exercise to Build Quads in the first Quarter of a Squat

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:16 am

Bram wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:13 am
I don't feel like loading 495 or whatever would be needed to effectively weight that top ROM.

What makes you think it would be ineffective at a lower weight? Do you weigh 495? Do you routinely absorb forces significantly greater than your bodyweight while surfin? Do you believe that building static and reactive strength in that top 1/3 of a squat requires high loads?

Most importantly, what have you tried already?

Did you try,
Eccentrics
Squat jumps
TKE's
Step Ups
stair bounding
Broad jumps
The myriad of power phases O lift variants
lunge partials
TBDL 1/4 pulls
Leg press
One leg leg press


Setting aside the fact it's not your quad that is a problem. It's your height...but I'm just pointing out the obvious.
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Re: Exercise to Build Quads in the first Quarter of a Squats

Post by Bram » Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:27 am

Doing 1/4 squats from my surf stance under load is an obvious solution and one I hadn't considered that deeply. Same with the partial trap bar deads (though one I hadn't considered) and partial lunges.

I'm currently doing a 2-leg and 1-leg strength variation each week with full ROM (like a squat and lunge), plus leg extensions and then VMO work (specifically tke's) on an additional day with plyos.

It's a lot of strength based quad work, but a push-press or jump lunge would add stress to the quads in power development. Speed under load vs slow and moderate/heavy load or light and fast.

Stair bounding seems like a very good suggestion for power. Also sled pushing as well.

Perhaps I need to prioritize power more. The general composition of my current program is just strength and plyo work (like leg press and box jumps). Picking one power exercise variation for each strength day might go a long way to not just helping my surf style, but rounding out my training.

Don't know why I've gotten away from it.

I'd love to blame my height but I have a particularly ugly surf stance, which has improved through strength training (less wide, less deep), but hopefully can improve further. The picture I posted is better than most I've seen of me.
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Re: Exercise to Build Quads in the first Quarter of a Squat

Post by Bram » Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:33 am

Blaidd Drwg wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:16 am

What makes you think it would be ineffective at a lower weight? Do you weigh 495? Do you routinely absorb forces significantly greater than your bodyweight while surfin? Do you believe that building static and reactive strength in that top 1/3 of a squat requires high loads?
As for this stuff....I weigh 210. I've had my legs buckle on large waves with steep drops as the g forces increase. This doesn't seem to happen if I've been working legs in the gym regularly.

Maybe much less would be fine. I used to use 495 for partials. I think if I'm going to do partial squats, the load is going to have to be much heavier. For jump squats which me and other people mentioned it would be a lot lighter, but not sure what the risk is vs other options.
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Re: Exercise to Build Quads in the first Quarter of a Squat

Post by syaigh » Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:54 am

Bram wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:33 am
Blaidd Drwg wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:16 am

What makes you think it would be ineffective at a lower weight? Do you weigh 495? Do you routinely absorb forces significantly greater than your bodyweight while surfin? Do you believe that building static and reactive strength in that top 1/3 of a squat requires high loads?
As for this stuff....I weigh 210. I've had my legs buckle on large waves with steep drops as the g forces increase. This doesn't seem to happen if I've been working legs in the gym regularly.

Maybe much less would be fine. I used to use 495 for partials. I think if I'm going to do partial squats, the load is going to have to be much heavier. For jump squats which me and other people mentioned it would be a lot lighter, but not sure what the risk is vs other options.
You need strength/postural endurance more than brute strength. What you are describing is an inability to adjust kinesthetically to changes in position and balance which is usually improved best by training more specifically. Ie, surf bigger waves, rougher surf. But that's not necessarily practical. That's like saying train to be a better fighter by fighting people you know you can't beat. That's kind of dangerous and not necessarily a good learning experience.

However, many athletes find that crosstraining in certain ways can improve certain aspects of their sport, for example, some downhill skiers train by mountain biking in the summer months. The downhill speed training improves/maintains their speed perception (ie, speed is a skill). That's a very small example of how to improve skills that are more neurological than anything else. I suspect this is a coordination/neurological issue more than a strength issue. Just some suggestions, multiple direction agility/plyometric training, trail running, riding horses, etc. I'm not being facetious, your real issue seems to be with adjusting to unpredictable changes in balance and direction. Getting stronger in a static position is probably not going to solve your problem.

How are you going to change that?
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Re: Exercise to Build Quads in the first Quarter of a Squat

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:27 am

Height is the issue because the levers are longer. You're significantly above your pivot point compared to a Slater or Hamilton body type. I know less than nothing about surfing, I know more than a little about leverage and balance. Your stance is "ugly" because you're comparing it to a body type you do not have. As usual, Syaigh is correct, this is a balance and postural issue, not a strength or power issue. If there are strength deficits, they are just as likely top be lower limb and rotational than static "leg" strength.

The question I haven't see asked is, what would make you a better surfer, smoother, more agile, dynamic etc? When it comes to improving those qualities in movements I do have expertise in, it has never (literally never) been an issue of strength per se, bit one of awareness, position and relaxation. Linking beautiful turns on a DH run or rotating though the trig with weight under load is about very veru stable and supple core and relaxed extremities.

Again, I know fuck all about surfing, but I know a little bit about flow and I think you're asking the wrong question. TRy stair bounding and side hops, shuffle hops, basic A Skip, B Skip, and see how you feel on your feet
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Re: Exercise to Build Quads in the first Quarter of a Squat

Post by JimZipCode » Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:12 pm

Maybe some ice skating would be useful??
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Re: Exercise to Build Quads in the first Quarter of a Squat

Post by Bram » Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:04 pm

syaigh wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:54 am

You need strength/postural endurance more than brute strength. What you are describing is an inability to adjust kinesthetically to changes in position and balance which is usually improved best by training more specifically. Ie, surf bigger waves, rougher surf. But that's not necessarily practical. That's like saying train to be a better fighter by fighting people you know you can't beat. That's kind of dangerous and not necessarily a good learning experience.

However, many athletes find that crosstraining in certain ways can improve certain aspects of their sport, for example, some downhill skiers train by mountain biking in the summer months. The downhill speed training improves/maintains their speed perception (ie, speed is a skill). That's a very small example of how to improve skills that are more neurological than anything else. I suspect this is a coordination/neurological issue more than a strength issue. Just some suggestions, multiple direction agility/plyometric training, trail running, riding horses, etc. I'm not being facetious, your real issue seems to be with adjusting to unpredictable changes in balance and direction. Getting stronger in a static position is probably not going to solve your problem.

How are you going to change that?
I surf in all sorts of conditions, big, small, good, messy. Unless I'm on a longboard on a mellow wave, I'm usually squatting and sitting wider. If the wave is mellow, then its feet close and standing tall. Part of that is zero need to turn. When I turn I go into a widened stance.

I've been surfing nearly daily for a while now. I do plyos once a week ideally. I was downhill skateboarding until the risk/reward ratio got out of whack. I can surf aggressively and fall on the water without a problem. But I can't do that skating. Barefoot beach running has a small carryover to foot strength on the board. Yoga is the one thing that strongly carry's over to surfing better that I'm not doing right now. I don't know if my stance improves, but I feel more flowing in my movement.

The goal is yoga 2x a week, but I haven't gone since September.
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Re: Exercise to Build Quads in the first Quarter of a Squat

Post by Bram » Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:29 pm

Blaidd Drwg wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:27 am
Height is the issue because the levers are longer. You're significantly above your pivot point compared to a Slater or Hamilton body type. I know less than nothing about surfing, I know more than a little about leverage and balance. Your stance is "ugly" because you're comparing it to a body type you do not have. As usual, Syaigh is correct, this is a balance and postural issue, not a strength or power issue. If there are strength deficits, they are just as likely top be lower limb and rotational than static "leg" strength.

The question I haven't see asked is, what would make you a better surfer, smoother, more agile, dynamic etc? When it comes to improving those qualities in movements I do have expertise in, it has never (literally never) been an issue of strength per se, bit one of awareness, position and relaxation. Linking beautiful turns on a DH run or rotating though the trig with weight under load is about very veru stable and supple core and relaxed extremities.

Again, I know fuck all about surfing, but I know a little bit about flow and I think you're asking the wrong question. TRy stair bounding and side hops, shuffle hops, basic A Skip, B Skip, and see how you feel on your feet
I'm definitely longer limbed proportionally to any pro surfer that I can think of. And you're right that I shouldn't compare my frame to theirs.

In terms of better, smoother, more agile....what I've found is a general strength base, mixed with full body plyometrics and a ton of stabilizer work (TVA, hip extension, hip abduction and adduction to name some of the more valuable). With yoga as a supplement to that.

Besides the yoga I'm already doing that and the carryover has been huge. I'll give the stair bounding a go and continue my lower body plyos.

Thanks!
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Re: Exercise to Build Quads in the first Quarter of a Squat

Post by Bram » Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:09 pm

Double post.
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Re: Exercise to Build Quads in the first Quarter of a Squat

Post by Bram » Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:12 pm

JimZipCode wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:12 pm
Maybe some ice skating would be useful??
It might be a big help - all that hip work and near straight legged drive, but I'm cheap as fuck. Part of the reason I surf is the ocean is free. Rollerblading could be good too...
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Re: Exercise to Build Quads in the first Quarter of a Squat

Post by nafod » Mon Dec 18, 2017 12:50 am

You might just be a naturally average surfer, perpetually unattractive to watch from the beach, but enjoying life in the waves.

Start ripping it, and everyone will be surfing like some big galooph who got lost on his way to the thyroid clinic.

=P~
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Re: Exercise to Build Quads in the first Quarter of a Squat

Post by Bram » Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:36 pm

I'm definitely a naturally average surfer. Who enjoys it. But the gym has allowed me to surf better than I would otherwise. It would be cool if it helped my form too. Which it has, but I have a ways to go still.
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Re: Exercise to Build Quads in the first Quarter of a Squat

Post by JimZipCode » Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:51 pm

Bram wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:12 pm
JimZipCode wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:12 pm
Maybe some ice skating would be useful??
It might be a big help - all that hip work and near straight legged drive, but I'm cheap as fuck. Part of the reason I surf is the ocean is free. Rollerblading could be good too...
I was thinking more in terms of the small movements you make with the muscles of your feet and ankles: how much they work to maintain balance and change directions etc etc in skating at speed. Thought it might carry-over.
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