Grappling fitness

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Sangoma
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Grappling fitness

Post by Sangoma » Sat May 05, 2018 10:27 pm

I think it warrants a separate thread. What supplementary training do you do/should/would do? My main problem at this stage is endurance, how can I help improve it? Or is it just plain inexperience and I am simply wasting to much energy, and I just should continue training without thinking too much about this?

Otherwise, do you do any lifting, yoga, kettlebells etc.?
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Re: Grappling fitness

Post by Bram » Sat May 05, 2018 11:08 pm

Smet,

There was a stage where I trained for a tournament doing sled drags, high-rep power cleans, sledgehammering a tire, flipping a tire....all that shit. I trained like a mad-man.

In the tournament I gassed out on my second opponent.

The ONLY time I was in good grappling shape was when I was training grappling 4+ days a week.

In my opinion, your gym training should be centered around promoting recovery, decreasing your risk of injuries by following a general program with a few stabilizer muscle groups thrown in for safety, like glute work, and perhaps doing a small amount of targeting your weaknesses (I found ulnar and radial weighted deviation to help a ton with my cross-collar chokes as an example - 2-3 sets of each a week).

Your experience may vary of course,

Good luck and stay healthy!
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Re: Grappling fitness

Post by syaigh » Sun May 06, 2018 12:45 am

I used to coach in a gym with a lot of grapplers and coached with a guy who trained MMA guys.

Bram is right, the non-specific work is not sufficient when peaking for a fight.

It is a good way to build a base in the off season, as is simple cardio like running. I am particularly fond of sandbags as it builds core strength and conditioning, but again, not during a peak.

Gin Master (judo) told me once some rather brilliant insight which was that the roadwork (running or other conditioning) is what conditioned you to be able to spend more time on the mat actually training.

I worked with a few grapplers, mostly doing rehab and reconditioning after injury (in which we took a general S&C approach) but I did notice that the fighters who spent more time doing conditioning workouts than actually grappling didn't do so good. But, the guys who didn't have a base and only grappled (ie, came in weak and deconditioned and never fixed that) didn't do so well either.
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Re: Grappling fitness

Post by Fat Cat » Sun May 06, 2018 12:50 am

Agree in principle with Bram, the most effective way to become fit for an activity is to perform that activity repeatedly.

The caveat is that there is a point, not only of diminshing returns, but also of overuse and potential injury. That means, in my mind, that there is a place for intelligent supplemental training but it should be focused on two basic things: shoring up lagging areas and injury prevention.

For me, the best single program I've used was S&S. I know that sounds lame, but it addressed my weakness (anaerobic bursts from the swings) and contributed to injury prevention (the get ups), and it didn't leave me too tired to train. That's pretty much all you can hope for from "grappling fitness" training. There is no magic bullet that will make what we do easy though.
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Re: Grappling fitness

Post by Bram » Sun May 06, 2018 1:35 am

There was a guy I trained with, who has since went on to get his black belt, who never seemed to get injured and had a good gas tank.

He did some simple calisthenics and stretches, but his main program was running 3 days a week for about 45 minutes on top of his grappling training.

An additional big thing of him not getting injured, in my opinion, was that while he was competitive, he was a nice person to everyone and didn't ever seem to have his ego flare up if he got tapped or out-positioned. Nearly everyone at my studio got injured as it was extremely competitive, but he seemed to get by well.
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Re: Grappling fitness

Post by Fat Cat » Sun May 06, 2018 2:49 am

One thing I have noticed across Soviet sports development is an emphasis on LSD running as a basic element of athletic fitness. Whether MMA or GS, jogging is a basic element. Even guys like Malanchiev (the PLer) run.

That said, it's not magic. Jogging will help you recover between matches, but not during matches. Same as in boxing.
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Re: Grappling fitness

Post by Sangoma » Sun May 06, 2018 4:01 am

I guess this is all common sense. lSD makes sense to me more than intervals, as rolling itself is intervals, sort of.

Bram, what do yiu mean by radial and ulnar deviations?
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Re: Grappling fitness

Post by Bram » Sun May 06, 2018 5:12 am

At my gym they have weighted bars from 9lbs to 15 lbs, I would grab a pair and do a couple sets of something similar to the exercises in the video. As I got stronger I would hold nearer the base (increasing the leverage). I can see how this would sound like utter bullshit, but literally the day I tried these I cross-choked a thick necked upper belt numerous times (and I had zero history of catching him in this submission).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIa9TRaQa4Y
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Re: Grappling fitness

Post by SubClaw » Sun May 06, 2018 11:21 am

Sangoma wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 10:27 pm
I think it warrants a separate thread. What supplementary training do you do/should/would do? My main problem at this stage is endurance, how can I help improve it? Or is it just plain inexperience and I am simply wasting to much energy, and I just should continue training without thinking too much about this?

Otherwise, do you do any lifting, yoga, kettlebells etc.?
Sparring more will increase your endurance. Refining your technique will teach you how to avoid wasting energy. Also, I've always been a fan of long, slow, cardio sessions to improve general fitness.

LCCJ, DKBFS and pull ups will cover all your needs.

Yoga would be perfect to unfuck you after BJJ: grappling forces you to spend a lot of time crouching and pulling. Yoga is the opposite of that. But... I think at this early stage you would benefit much more from doing skill training and very mild sparring.

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Re: Grappling fitness

Post by JimZipCode » Sun May 06, 2018 2:21 pm

DKBFS?
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Re: Grappling fitness

Post by nafod » Sun May 06, 2018 3:17 pm

Sangoma wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 10:27 pm
Or is it just plain inexperience and I am simply wasting to much energy...
I bet there is a lot of that going on, based on my own experience with every other sport I’ve done, including MMA. I put a lot more awareness now on being relaxed in the moment in whatever I am doing, and it always pays off.

Rock climbing was an especially good lesson. As I got stronger, I could relax more to just the edge of what was needed to hang on, saving strength for the next move. Always thinking about the whole route and not just move at hand.

Aikido was great in that it was all about less effort. Softer. Easier. It made relaxing front and center.

Just got into paddleboarding, and at first I could feel a whole body tension in just standing on the board. It was tiring! Now I can relax and just go for an hour or two.

All took development of skill to be able to relax.

So you will get to realize the double benefits of sport specific strength, and the endurance increase from relaxing from skill. Cool! But start thinking about the relaxing now.
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Re: Grappling fitness

Post by SubClaw » Sun May 06, 2018 8:59 pm

JimZipCode wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 2:21 pm
DKBFS?
Double Kettlebell Front Squats.

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Re: Grappling fitness

Post by Fat Cat » Mon May 07, 2018 5:42 pm

Deep
Kegel
Butt
Fucking
System
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Re: Grappling fitness

Post by Dunn » Mon May 07, 2018 7:28 pm

SubClaw wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 11:21 am
Sangoma wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 10:27 pm
I think it warrants a separate thread. What supplementary training do you do/should/would do? My main problem at this stage is endurance, how can I help improve it? Or is it just plain inexperience and I am simply wasting to much energy, and I just should continue training without thinking too much about this?

Otherwise, do you do any lifting, yoga, kettlebells etc.?
Sparring more will increase your endurance. Refining your technique will teach you how to avoid wasting energy. Also, I've always been a fan of long, slow, cardio sessions to improve general fitness.

LCCJ, DKBFS and pull ups will cover all your needs.

Yoga would be perfect to unfuck you after BJJ: grappling forces you to spend a lot of time crouching and pulling. Yoga is the opposite of that. But... I think at this early stage you would benefit much more from doing skill training and very mild sparring.
This.

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Re: Grappling fitness

Post by grip junky » Tue May 15, 2018 2:29 pm

I have tried writing this a few times and I sound like a know it all, I am not, just a bad writer.

Strength training takes place off the mat, conditioning is on the mat. I think of anything in the room as on the mat, sprints, monkey rolls carries drags that kind of thing. true conditioning would be hard drilling.

A good example would be the "bad drill" you start neutral and hand fight, heavy hands, fight for head position, under hooks ,thumb block all of that is done at 100% then on the whistle one man shoots his take down at around 100% the other man is at about 10% he should end up with his belly on the mat he goes to 100% to get back to his base the other man is at about 60% he is just using his weight to make it hard, then he goes to 100% for the cut. When you get to your feet you start over same man on take down switch on the minute. it is a very fast drill 3 or 4 take downs for the minute. 6 minutes and some over time. this is after live, then onto sprints and monkey rolls.

I have done this drill 1 time to help out it killed me. They did this a few times a week. This is folk style in other styles do you drill like this?

sorry for the writing

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Re: Grappling fitness

Post by JohnDoe » Tue May 15, 2018 2:43 pm

syaigh wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 12:45 am
I used to coach in a gym with a lot of grapplers and coached with a guy who trained MMA guys.

Bram is right, the non-specific work is not sufficient when peaking for a fight.

It is a good way to build a base in the off season, as is simple cardio like running. I am particularly fond of sandbags as it builds core strength and conditioning, but again, not during a peak.

Gin Master (judo) told me once some rather brilliant insight which was that the roadwork (running or other conditioning) is what conditioned you to be able to spend more time on the mat actually training.

I worked with a few grapplers, mostly doing rehab and reconditioning after injury (in which we took a general S&C approach) but I did notice that the fighters who spent more time doing conditioning workouts than actually grappling didn't do so good. But, the guys who didn't have a base and only grappled (ie, came in weak and deconditioned and never fixed that) didn't do so well either.
The base work is what allows you to do the hard work the way it should be done. 4x1k is a phenomenal workout for a competitive rower, but many of mine aren't actually fit enough to do that work as designed. They can get through it, but it's essentially one movement XFit, not rowing. The same is true across disciplines in my experience.

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