intermittent fasting recap

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terra
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Re: intermittent fasting recap

Post by terra » Wed May 30, 2018 1:23 am

Sangoma wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 12:20 am
Terra, what was the "when" part of your experiment? Did you eat first thing in the morning and then stop 8 hours later?
Start around 8:00am to 9:00am depending on patient schedule etc. Then stop 8 to 8.5 hours later. Never eat after 6pm.
Generally not eating shit food, but at the same time not being orthorexic.
In bed around 10:00pm and wake at 5:45am.
Only water during fast (not tea or coffee, ONLY water).
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Re: intermittent fasting recap

Post by johno » Wed May 30, 2018 5:14 pm

seeahill wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 8:47 pm
Lost 30 pounds since January. Most days, I just eat dinner. OMAD: one meal a day. I didn't give up booze or any one catagory of food. On my one meal, I try to eat sensibly.
Good followup, thanks.

I haven't done that much OMAD, but my brief experience indicates that it facilitates sensible eating.

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My focus will soon be on gaining some muscle. So three meals per day for me for several months.

Side note: I heard a local doc advise a meal near bedtime for unwanted wakeups in the middle of the night or early morning. It has worked well for me.
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Re: intermittent fasting recap

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Wed May 30, 2018 5:56 pm

I heard a fantastic critique of IF...

It's not really fasting it's just intermittent eating.
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Re: intermittent fasting recap

Post by seeahill » Thu May 31, 2018 7:30 am

Blaidd Drwg wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 5:56 pm
I heard a fantastic critique of IF...

It's not really fasting it's just intermittent eating.
We'll said. You gotta eat at some interval or you'll starve to death.
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Re: intermittent fasting recap

Post by seeahill » Thu May 31, 2018 7:34 am

Blaidd Drwg wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 5:56 pm
I heard a fantastic critique of IF...

It's not really fasting it's just intermittent eating.
Well said. You gotta eat at some interval or you'll starve to death.
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Re: intermittent fasting recap

Post by Sangoma » Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:42 am

terra wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 1:23 am
Sangoma wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 12:20 am
Terra, what was the "when" part of your experiment? Did you eat first thing in the morning and then stop 8 hours later?
Start around 8:00am to 9:00am depending on patient schedule etc. Then stop 8 to 8.5 hours later. Never eat after 6pm.
Generally not eating shit food, but at the same time not being orthorexic.
In bed around 10:00pm and wake at 5:45am.
Only water during fast (not tea or coffee, ONLY water).
Thanks. To be honest with you I wasn't impressed by the part of the podcast where Panda was talking about circadian physiology. Mostly talk with no references. At some time he said that coffee or tea activates something or other and the effect is the same as food. A glance across Pubmed did not return anything to support this.

Coffee, tea, cool sugar free drinks or water during my non-eating time - I can't see any difference in terms of results. If anything, drinking coffee helps with appetite control.
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Re: intermittent fasting recap

Post by terra » Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:29 am

Sangoma,
Listen t both of the podcasts. He qualifies most of what he says. Even what you said about the coffee. He actually states that that other research shows black coffee might be ok but he is suggesting to go without. There is a transcription with ref links to a lot of what they discuss. He totally didn't come off as a bullshit artist or wanna-be diet guru. Fairly conservative with his recommendations.
My simple suggestion is to give it a go for a few weeks. You have nothing to lose.

Also I think his blog has more on the circadian stuff. The interviewer wasn't really interested in that so it seems as if they glossed over a lot of it.
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Re: intermittent fasting recap

Post by johno » Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:21 pm

R. Patrick interviews Valter Longo:
Valter: Yeah. I really don't see it as a stress, I see it more as an environment that is very common, right? It's very common to bacteria, it's more common, in fact than food, right? So, you can see food is a bigger stress than fasting, right? Because food really puts you in a weak position, right? And fasting puts you in a strong position. So, if you look at most organisms on the planet, they're much more under starvation condition that they are, including humans, right? Historically, if you look at, there's some really nice books about, you know, the medieval times in Italy, and even after, and it's amazing how many times they were with our food at all, right?

Rhonda: Mm-hmm, yeah.

Valter: They could be without food for months, and this was very common for everybody. Imagine before then, imagine in tens of thousands of years ago, we must have gone without food for a really long time. So, fasting is part of the normal world, it is the normal world. And food comes around once in a while, and then you go back to the fasting. But you have to respond to that, and you respond by having a entering a mode of survival that is very different from the one that you enter or you stay in when you have plenty of food around.

Rhonda: Yeah. I see what you're saying, but, I think, though, what I, kinda, was trying to convey was that it activates stress response pathways because, you know, even though it is part of our normal, you know... Obviously, throughout human evolution, we've been through periods of time with, you know, no food and starvation. That is normal, it is part of our normal, it is part of our normal biology, I guess. But, I think that because it activates all these stress response pathways in a way...

Valter: Yeah. I mean, word-wise, technically, yeah, it is a stress, I mean, it's viewed as a stress. But I guess that...

Rhonda: Like the hormetic type of stress is what I'm talking about.

Valter: Yeah, but that's the one that I have a problem with, meaning that, the hormetic stress is really, you know, something that you activate by having some type of damage or problem that activates a response. And then, that response makes the system more protected against the bigger problem, right? But, here, I view it more as program A, program B, type of thing, right? So, program A, the major program is the starvation program, where you are in a shielded mode, right? Your decision is, "Let's be in a long-term protective mode." And program B is when the organism makes the decision that it doesn't need to be in a productive mode because they really want to focus on reproduction, and growth, and reproduction. And so, I think it's better to view it this way because I think a lot of people, by going into the hormesis theory, maybe you missed a little bit of the point. And I know a lot of people would disagree with me on this, but, really, by doing the work like we've done in E. coli, in yeast, in human cells, in mice, and in humans, you start getting, you know, a more clear picture of what's going on. And I really see this as A and B, you know, the environment decides which program you adopt.
https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/valter-longo

Interesting, in that Longo sees fasting as being normal. And that the body simply has a Plan A for fasting and a Plan B for feeding.
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Re: intermittent fasting recap

Post by Croatoa » Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:22 pm

So IF to me has always been a 20+ hour fast. But now I see 18,16 and even 14 hour fasts being recommended.

14 hours? Really? Finish dinner at 6pm and don’t eat until 8am. That’s not difficult at all.

I guess my question is. Have they determined a minimal effective dose regarding the length of fast? Assuming we’re just talking the proposed benefits other than weight loss.
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Re: intermittent fasting recap

Post by johno » Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:02 pm

From what I've read, IF is largely for weight loss. Other health benefits accrue in the 3-5 day range. Longo personally does a 5 day fast a few times per year, IIRC.
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Re: intermittent fasting recap

Post by Protobuilder » Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:02 am

If I do consistent 16H fasts, I drop weight. If they slip back to 12-16H, I maintain. If they are less than 12H (not really a fast) I gain weight.

This generally holds regardless of what I actually eat.
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Re: intermittent fasting recap

Post by Fat Cat » Thu Oct 03, 2019 12:00 am

Sound off if you're still IFing in late 2019.
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Re: intermittent fasting recap

Post by Hanglow Joe » Thu Oct 03, 2019 11:02 am

Sometimes, if I'm feeling a little bloated. What I find is it's hard if you fall out of practice.

16 hours to me isn't fasting. Fasting doesn't start until over 20.

40 works the best for me but it's really a test around dinner time. Mostly it's 24 once every 2 weeks

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Re: intermittent fasting recap

Post by Fat Cat » Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:31 pm

Hanglow Joe wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 11:02 am
Sometimes, if I'm feeling a little bloated. What I find is it's hard if you fall out of practice.

16 hours to me isn't fasting. Fasting doesn't start until over 20.

40 works the best for me but it's really a test around dinner time. Mostly it's 24 once every 2 weeks
I can see that. For me 16 hours is definitely not a challenge, but OTOH feels very sustainable. I did it for a long time, stopped for a long time, and now am drifting back towards it. I guess I could try to push it a bit longer, or at least do so a couple of times every week or two.
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