IGX "...overflowing with foulmouthed ignorance."

IGX "...overflowing with foulmouthed ignorance."
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 Post subject: TRT Train
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 9:26 pm 
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Jesus Christ®
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Come to Jesus, boys and girls. Who here is using and what are your results?

About two years ago I was diagnosed with some osteoarthritis that was causing me severe pain. There's a relationship between sex hormones like testosterone and osteoarthritis, so I toyed with the idea but never did anything about it.

I spoke with Tom "GILF Hunter" Furman and he was all for it, but I dunno, it makes me feel weird to think about that stuff. Then again, I wil be 43 this summer and it pops into my head every time I have to drag my ass from work to training.

So, is anyone here dabbling in the dark arts? If so, what? And more importantly, what are your feelings about its effectiveness, drawbacks, etc.?

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"One's actions alone define whether one belongs to a good family or a bad family, valiant or arrogant, and disciplined or undisciplined." -Lord Rāma, Rāmāyaṇa


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 Post subject: Re: TRT Train
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 11:31 am 
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Sergeant Commanding
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Though it came to be fashionable in the last decade research is lacking. I am not saying it doesn't have a place, but one should be careful.

Have a look:

Treatment of Men for “Low Testosterone”: A Systematic Review
Quote:
Studies that examined clinical effects have not favored testosterone therapy over placebo. Two of 3 studies that assessed angina showed no effect. Three studies from the same group found a benefit for symptoms associated with CHF. One study was stopped early for cardiovascular adverse effects.

Testosterone supplementation did not demonstrate consistent effectiveness for improving sexual function or satisfaction. Testosterone is ineffective in treating ED. Controlled trials were mixed on libido, with more positive than negative studies.

Substantial evidence supports a favorable effect of testosterone treatment on muscle mass in both healthy men and men with HIV, and a majority of studies showed a decrease in fat mass. Testosterone did not affect most measures of muscle strength. While decreasing frailty and increasing strength in older men might be beneficial, testosterone supplementation does not improve physical function in older men.

Most studies on mood-related endpoints found no beneficial effect of testosterone treatment on personality, psychological well-being, or mood. Although 2 studies showed decreased anxiety, treatment of depression showed mixed and inconsistent results. Even if testosterone did benefit mood, social adverse events might ensue; 5 studies noted treatment-related increases in anger, aggression, or hostility. Testosterone did not benefit cognitive impairment or Alzheimer disease; neither did it benefit verbal fluency, memory, or other cognitive endpoints in normal men.

In summary, evidence from RCTs does not support treatment of so-called low-T for improving physical function, sexual function, mood, or cognition. Testosterone increases muscle mass, but not strength, and while some improvement is seen in some surrogate markers of cardiovascular risk, there is little evidence of clinical benefit.
However, and his is a big however, there may be a good reason for the lack of effects in standardised trials. Testosterone (like steroids in general) is often considered a magic pill. However, without other adjustments, like exercise, diet, sleep etc. it may not be sufficient on its own to produce results. I also wonder about the methodology of some studies: I find it hard to believe that testosterone enanthate at 600 mg a week (as they used in one of the studies) did not result in improved physical strength.

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 Post subject: Re: TRT Train
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 8:45 pm 
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Jesus Christ®
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It’s easy to believe if they didn’t also train. The mere presence of androgens won’t do much without correct training.

_________________
"One's actions alone define whether one belongs to a good family or a bad family, valiant or arrogant, and disciplined or undisciplined." -Lord Rāma, Rāmāyaṇa


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 Post subject: Re: TRT Train
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 3:26 pm 
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Corporal
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Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 1:39 am
Posts: 78
The study Sangoma posted is problematic, because a lot of the data is using creams, which are notorious for absorption problems and harder to titrate. Moreover, a lot of doctors only allow patients to get in normal range, meaning 400-500ng/dL. Anecdotal evidence suggests upper ranges of 800-1000 are needed by some, especially if they have high SHBG. Finally, many doctors are clueless when it comes to protocols (I am on my third doctor), which is why I am with Defy now, because TRT is their specialty.

My story: I have been on for about 2 years--39 to 41. It is not a panacea, but it has worked wonders for me (e.g., regained lost muscle mass, strong erections, emotions back to normal, sleep better [no more night sweats], blood work reflecting diet and matches my 18 year-old self, etc.) I will say that lifestyle still matters.

Before TRT, I kept a tight diet and worked out with a mix of BJJ, cardio, weights. The result was I lost 30 pounds and 6 inches on my waist. What made me even check my T after weight loss was that I was emotionally all over the place, and my erections were not as strong--a slight bend toward one direction. Moreover, I weighed 10lbs less than I did at 18 (my 6-pack phase), but my body comp was not that great, which is to say, I had lost a lot of muscle. Finally, no matter what my exercise and diet routine, I was was creeping every year toward metabolic syndrome, as captured by blood panels (pre-diabetic fasting glucose, Chol at 230, LDLs out of control).

I started with injections straight away, and I am glad I did. Injecting Monday night and Friday morning is way easier than daily creams. Plus, I do not have to worry about contaminating my wife. I also added HCG to keep my testicles working, in case I have to stop TRT or I want a kid.

Here are my latest labs at 70mg Test Cyp/350iU of HCG every 3.5 days.

Test Total...1179.....348 - 1197 ng/dL (Pre-T 150)
Free............35.9......9-30 ng/dl (Pre-T 2.3)
E2...............46.8......7-39 pg/ml (Pre-T 56)
SHBG...........31.0......16.5-55.9 nmol/L (Pre-T 50)

I suggest you have a look at Excelmale.com, as it is the most clear-headed, non-roider forum out there. Also, I will answer any questions.


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 Post subject: Re: TRT Train
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 5:43 pm 
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Jesus Christ®
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Thanks for sharing your experience. To be clear, I am not considering anything at all as I simply don't need it at this time. That said, it's sort of a "what if" fantasy sometimes when I am feeling particularly high-mileage. It's an interesting subject to me and something I think everyone should be at least aware of.

One thing I am curious about, and perhaps you can help me, is the significance of the numbers you provided. Could you "decode" what those numbers mean and what are considered normal ranges?

_________________
"One's actions alone define whether one belongs to a good family or a bad family, valiant or arrogant, and disciplined or undisciplined." -Lord Rāma, Rāmāyaṇa


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