Grapplers - Kimura/Double Wristlock Finish

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johno
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Grapplers - Kimura/Double Wristlock Finish

Post by johno » Wed May 23, 2018 4:39 pm

I get Kimura grips quite often. And I don't finish/submit as often as I should.

1 - With my grappling dummy*, I'm drilling the Catch style finish where you reef the guy's wrist up toward his armpit before levering it toward his back. (Among others, I think Billy Robinson showed this.)

It seems that this would reduce his arm strength and make the Kimura easier to finish.
Thoughts?


2 - Any opinions on the broader issues re: finishing the Kimura/Wristlock?


*I realize I need to work this out at the gym with partners. But my schedule has been limited to dummy drills lately.
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Re: Grapplers - Kimura/Double Wristlock Finish

Post by Fat Cat » Wed May 23, 2018 5:50 pm

Schedule? You're retired! Basic idea for finishing kimuras: the arm trap should be a way to transmit power from the legs. Always look for the way in which you can take the trap a step further by including your legs in the situation. Also, think of it as more than a submission hold, it's an entry to a million techniques: back take, armbar, reverse triangle from the back, etc. Look at good grapplers who use it effectively like Wagner Rocha and Avellan.
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Re: Grapplers - Kimura/Double Wristlock Finish

Post by Dunn » Thu May 24, 2018 12:26 pm

johno wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 4:39 pm
I get Kimura grips quite often. And I don't finish/submit as often as I should.

1 - With my grappling dummy*, I'm drilling the Catch style finish where you reef the guy's wrist up toward his armpit before levering it toward his back. (Among others, I think Billy Robinson showed this.)

It seems that this would reduce his arm strength and make the Kimura easier to finish.
Thoughts?


2 - Any opinions on the broader issues re: finishing the Kimura/Wristlock?


*I realize I need to work this out at the gym with partners. But my schedule has been limited to dummy drills lately.
Definitely fold the wrist towards the armpit as it puts the arm at a mechanical disadvantage. Was originally shown to me that their wrist, after folding towards the pit, should be moved towards their spine. Most folks can move their wrist towards their spine without much issue but once you have that loading pressure from folding it towards the armpit, you take most of that ROM away making it a lot easier for you to hit their limit.

Are you liking the dummy drills?

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Re: Grapplers - Kimura/Double Wristlock Finish

Post by johno » Thu May 24, 2018 4:47 pm

The dummy is good to work in certain positions, and to cement certain performance points. And to harden my arms, etc., holding chokes.
But it is inferior to a good partner, especially one who will drill with you.

Now that I'm pretty much stuck with it, I'm liking it more.


At 1:40, this is the information I was looking for.


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNyK0lwq_cc[/youtube]
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

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Re: Grapplers - Kimura/Double Wristlock Finish

Post by Sangoma » Sun May 27, 2018 11:36 pm

When you said dummy drills I thought you are talking about drilling with novice white belts like me.
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Re: Grapplers - Kimura/Double Wristlock Finish

Post by johno » Mon May 28, 2018 9:14 pm

There are benefits to drilling with both dummies. But the inert, non-alive dummies are less likely to damage you.
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

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Re: Grapplers - Kimura/Double Wristlock Finish

Post by Sangoma » Tue May 29, 2018 6:16 am

johno wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 4:47 pm
The dummy is good to work in certain positions, and to cement certain performance points. And to harden my arms, etc., holding chokes.
But it is inferior to a good partner, especially one who will drill with you.

Now that I'm pretty much stuck with it, I'm liking it more.


At 1:40, this is the information I was looking for.


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNyK0lwq_cc[/youtube]
Is that Furman? The guy they use for demonstration?
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Re: Grapplers - Kimura/Double Wristlock Finish

Post by MeatPlow » Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:38 pm

I had a hard time finishing Kimuras until I made a slight adjustment. I don't try to finish the with my hand on their wrist and my other hand on my wrist. In this control its easy for them to grab something to defend and sometime its nearly impossible to break.

So lets start from side control. What I do is with the arm that is not controlling the wrist I punch it through the hole and lay the back of my hand on top of their forearm. With the hand that is on the wrist I let go and shoot that hand underneath their elbow reaching for the back of my other arm, this traps their arm so they can't straighten out to the side or extend it towards their feet. With the hand on the top of their forearm I simply turn it and reach for my upper arm and hug it hard and squeeze. From there I maintain pressure and walk my legs and hips around their head until I am basically sitting on the other side of their head and I am cranking that shoulder. They can hold on to whatever they like but they are going to tap.

wish I could find a vid to explain

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Re: Grapplers - Kimura/Double Wristlock Finish

Post by MeatPlow » Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:56 pm

ha just watched the video up above an the guy does exactly what I am talking about.

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Re: Grapplers - Kimura/Double Wristlock Finish

Post by Fat Cat » Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:38 pm

MeatPlow wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:38 pm
I had a hard time finishing Kimuras until I made a slight adjustment. I don't try to finish the with my hand on their wrist and my other hand on my wrist. In this control its easy for them to grab something to defend and sometime its nearly impossible to break.

So lets start from side control. What I do is with the arm that is not controlling the wrist I punch it through the hole and lay the back of my hand on top of their forearm. With the hand that is on the wrist I let go and shoot that hand underneath their elbow reaching for the back of my other arm, this traps their arm so they can't straighten out to the side or extend it towards their feet. With the hand on the top of their forearm I simply turn it and reach for my upper arm and hug it hard and squeeze. From there I maintain pressure and walk my legs and hips around their head until I am basically sitting on the other side of their head and I am cranking that shoulder. They can hold on to whatever they like but they are going to tap.

wish I could find a vid to explain

This is the classic catch-as-catch-can keylock. It's very effective, but it can be hard to cinch up in the gi.
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Re: Grapplers - Kimura/Double Wristlock Finish

Post by MeatPlow » Sat Jun 30, 2018 5:00 pm

Fat Cat wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:38 pm
MeatPlow wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:38 pm
I had a hard time finishing Kimuras until I made a slight adjustment. I don't try to finish the with my hand on their wrist and my other hand on my wrist. In this control its easy for them to grab something to defend and sometime its nearly impossible to break.

So lets start from side control. What I do is with the arm that is not controlling the wrist I punch it through the hole and lay the back of my hand on top of their forearm. With the hand that is on the wrist I let go and shoot that hand underneath their elbow reaching for the back of my other arm, this traps their arm so they can't straighten out to the side or extend it towards their feet. With the hand on the top of their forearm I simply turn it and reach for my upper arm and hug it hard and squeeze. From there I maintain pressure and walk my legs and hips around their head until I am basically sitting on the other side of their head and I am cranking that shoulder. They can hold on to whatever they like but they are going to tap.

wish I could find a vid to explain

This is the classic catch-as-catch-can keylock. It's very effective, but it can be hard to cinch up in the gi.
Yeah it can be tough in the gi, but I've caught it plenty of times. Its super effective once you catch it!

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Re: Grapplers - Kimura/Double Wristlock Finish

Post by Fat Cat » Sun Jul 01, 2018 9:44 pm

Yes, it's a legit submission.
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