KARATE: Karate Combat: Olympus - July 28, 2018

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KARATE: Karate Combat: Olympus - July 28, 2018

Post by Fat Cat » Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:49 am



Strange event, but check it out if you like. The more I watch the gayer it gets.
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Re: KARATE: Karate Combat: Olympus - July 28, 2018

Post by Kazuya Mishima » Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:14 pm

Hard for me to describe why, but I just don't like it. Perhaps it just seems too contrived...trying to concoct a weird rule set combined with an odd fighting ring that creates a sport wedged in-between a bunch of other combat sports that already exist. I get the feeling that a mid-tier fighter from Glory or Lionfight could walk in there and wreck 99% of these guys.

The striking of the downed fighter aspect is very sloppy, and usually results from slips and backyard trips. You don't see high level throwing or takedowns because there's no reward for it. I prefer the Sanda/Sanshou rule sets in that regard...you get rewarded points for technical takedowns and high amplitude throws...makes for some exciting moments and looks "cleaner". This bullshit be all like, "oh, Abdullah haz fell...let me hitted heem."

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Re: KARATE: Karate Combat: Olympus - July 28, 2018

Post by JimZipCode » Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:11 pm

The almost-swastika on the floor of the ring is a nice touch.

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Re: KARATE: Karate Combat: Olympus - July 28, 2018

Post by Fat Cat » Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:22 pm

Kazuya Mishima wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:14 pm
Hard for me to describe why, but I just don't like it. Perhaps it just seems too contrived...trying to concoct a weird rule set combined with an odd fighting ring that creates a sport wedged in-between a bunch of other combat sports that already exist. I get the feeling that a mid-tier fighter from Glory or Lionfight could walk in there and wreck 99% of these guys.

The striking of the downed fighter aspect is very sloppy, and usually results from slips and backyard trips. You don't see high level throwing or takedowns because there's no reward for it. I prefer the Sanda/Sanshou rule sets in that regard...you get rewarded points for technical takedowns and high amplitude throws...makes for some exciting moments and looks "cleaner". This bullshit be all like, "oh, Abdullah haz fell...let me hitted heem."

Yup. I wanted to like it but it's just...not that cool. Also, it smacked of "semi-work".
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Re: KARATE: Karate Combat: Olympus - July 28, 2018

Post by Grandpa's Spells » Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:17 pm

I started this, hated it, and then went back. The theatrics are awful, rules need adjustments, fighters need to adjust some things and were a little keyed up. There are a lot of bads but there are a few very sharp guys.

The Spaniard at 34:20 is very talented. Ashi barai FTW. Effectively a 6 second bout.

Fight at 1:04:26 is a good aggressor v counter puncher match. Ecuadorian was a Pan American champion, which is sort of "Not a world champ by any stretch but better than the Machidas."

The final fight had guys from the UK and French national teams, and should have been very good if not for the injury, though the result was likely going to be the same. Good start.

The sloped wall thing looks stupid but was surprisingly effective.

I disagree that a mid-tier MT/kickboxer won't get slain in this format against the best guys shown. People unprepared for distance control and leg sweeps from world-class karateka are going to find themselves on their back getting punched in the head over and over or will get sniped from the outside. I suspect the rules (why no clinching? why no uppercuts?) are set up this way because non-karate stylists will be invited soon and will not do well.

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Re: KARATE: Karate Combat: Olympus - July 28, 2018

Post by Fat Cat » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:01 pm

Interesting insights Spells. Tonight I'll jump to some of those time marks. I'm looking for a really solid showcase for karate and I'm not sure this is it.
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Re: KARATE: Karate Combat: Olympus - July 28, 2018

Post by Kazuya Mishima » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:46 pm

Kudo is an interesting approach...way more tools involved.


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Re: KARATE: Karate Combat: Olympus - July 28, 2018

Post by Fat Cat » Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:33 pm

The problem with kudo are the fishbowl spaceman helmets. Ain't nobody got time for that. Dudes who want to rep karate need to be hard as nails, no pattycake mittens and bubbleboy hats.

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Re: KARATE: Karate Combat: Olympus - July 28, 2018

Post by Grandpa's Spells » Fri Aug 17, 2018 4:47 am

Fat Cat wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:01 pm
Interesting insights Spells. Tonight I'll jump to some of those time marks. I'm looking for a really solid showcase for karate and I'm not sure this is it.
It's not, but 34:20 pretty much shows what is good and bad about the event in one bout.

Spain takes a few seconds, sweeps with the front leg, follows up with the rear leg sweep and then punches him in the head. The Italian is starched after the first or second shot, seconds after tapping gloves. This is a pretty pure and quick karate victory. Unbalance, sweep from a safe distance, incapacitate. Nobody really does this except karateka.

In an MMA bout, the fight would be stopped, in the streetz, the Italian needs a hospital. In this format, the ref inexplicably stands back him up and Spain gets a little spazzy because this Weird Greek Eyes Wide Shut format is dumb and he isn't thinking clearly IMO. The Ecuadorian later is in a similar situation later, pushes too hard, and is trading shots with a hurt guy, but a fast/accurate hurt guy, who knocks him out.

All these guys should be going to Belem or LA to get some instruction from the Machidas, or a time machine to learn to clinch and grapple. But they're basically the karate equivalent of Olympic judoka and they're going to have holes in their game that need plugging when it's their first event.

Kudo. One major strength of Kyokushin was it's early adoption of cross-training judo. The weakness was "We bang really hard but nobody's allowed to punch anybody in the head." Other styles have found ways to work around that, including FC styles, but the Kyokushin guys have spent 50 years saying "I wanna figure this out by myself."

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Re: KARATE: Karate Combat: Olympus - July 28, 2018

Post by Fat Cat » Fri Aug 17, 2018 5:41 pm

Grandpa's Spells wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:17 pm
The Spaniard at 34:20 is very talented. Ashi barai FTW. Effectively a 6 second bout.
That was awesome; good catch. The way he set him up was slick as cat shit.
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Re: KARATE: Karate Combat: Olympus - July 28, 2018

Post by Grandpa's Spells » Fri Aug 17, 2018 5:53 pm

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Re: KARATE: Karate Combat: Olympus - July 28, 2018

Post by Fat Cat » Fri Aug 17, 2018 5:57 pm

That's real martial arts. Makes me pine for the days when jiujitsu was about fighting and not ridiculous ground contortions.
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Re: KARATE: Karate Combat: Olympus - July 28, 2018

Post by JimZipCode » Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:10 pm

Grandpa's Spells wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 4:47 am
Kudo. One major strength of Kyokushin was it's early adoption of cross-training judo. The weakness was "We bang really hard but nobody's allowed to punch anybody in the head."
Doesn't the fishbowl spaceman helmet address that? In the clips they seem to be punching the shit out of each other's heads.
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Re: KARATE: Karate Combat: Olympus - July 28, 2018

Post by Grandpa's Spells » Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:25 am

JimZipCode wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:10 pm
Grandpa's Spells wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 4:47 am
Kudo. One major strength of Kyokushin was it's early adoption of cross-training judo. The weakness was "We bang really hard but nobody's allowed to punch anybody in the head."
Doesn't the fishbowl spaceman helmet address that? In the clips they seem to be punching the shit out of each other's heads.
The helmets allow a “stand and bang” format of absorbing punishment where IMO time has passed that by. They could just adopt MMA gloves and not wear headgear, but they’d have to change stance, head defense skills, etc. Their current generation of fighters would not do well. Helmets allow them to keep doing what they wanna do. My guess is even with this they will end up making fairly significant changes.

The Japanese-style karate dudes in OP are doing something similar with their rule set, so I’m not being critical so much as pointing out that the Kudo answer is also contrived.

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Re: KARATE: Karate Combat: Olympus - July 28, 2018

Post by Fat Cat » Sun Aug 19, 2018 7:54 am

https://twitter.com/FOXSportsArg/status ... 6879470592

No idea at all how to embed twitter on this antique site but this fight showcases some good karate. Yoko-geri to the deaaaathhhhh.
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Re: KARATE: Karate Combat: Olympus - July 28, 2018

Post by Fat Cat » Sun Aug 19, 2018 7:58 am

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