IGX "...overflowing with foulmouthed ignorance."

IGX "...overflowing with foulmouthed ignorance."
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:18 pm 
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Rippetoe and his nut huggers suggest novice lifters are best served by strength training at moderately high intensity. However, reading logs of those who use such programming, and my own experience using linear progression without at least occasional high intensity (at or above 90 percent of max) work seems to suggest that the prescribed intensity, and therefore total volume is too low.

We also see successful "novice" routines based around similar intensity and progression, but with additional hypertrophy focused work. The average novice is over fat and under-muscled, and the additional volume helps mitigate this.

Having noted the above, I contend that the average novice is better served with a large amount of hypertrophy-focused work (i.e. 5x8-12 while aggressively pursuing increasing weight across sets) before attempting strength work. I started weight training seriously as a teenager by hiring a trainer who seemed to focus on bodybuilding methods (mostly isolation exercises and dumbell work in the above rep range), and continuing the same type of training on my own for about 4 years. I did not, outside of the occasional bet or pick-up contest, touch a barbell until I was in my early 20s.

My early barbell training experiences suggest this worked out well. I was stronger that most of my peers, even those with more extensive athletic backgrounds. Unfortunately, life amd career obligations have since interfered with my training, precluding the kind of progress I wish I could have had.

So here's my question: Did I necessarily do myself a disservice by not following the classic SS/ Novice linear progression as a youth?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:29 am 
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I think a sensible bodybuilding approach is a pretty good way to go for the majority of people in the gym.

If you're a powerlifter, or Olympic lifter or Crossfit competitor then train for those goals using that style programming.

Since the average person wants to look better and not get hurt, sub-max work with some isolated movements tossed in is reasonable.

Disclaimer: this is how I train and train clients. Tossing in some plyo's if they qualify.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:01 am 
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"Looking better naked," is probably the top reason the usual globo gym denizen seeks training. I am fortunate that I found the aforementioned trainer who pushed hypertrophy as a solution to achieve the specific performance goal I had; I needed to get better at pull-ups for a fitness test.
I worked briefly with a sports training facility that had fallen under the influence of crossfit. They had me doing their generic conditioning work with the odd addition of dumbell curls done on a vibration platform. Needless to say, I dropped a little body fat, but did not improve pull-ups or even begin to realize the muscular growth that my then-teenage male body was capable of. Both only came through bodybuilding work.
This hypertrophy supported my later entry into strength work. While in college, I started benching heavy, because everyone asks about bench numbers, and all boys want a big bench. My upper back and shoulder hypertrophy protected me from injury and got me past 3 plates without any programming more complex than weekly linear progression. After joining the military, I found that the only men stronger than me were the odd competitive powerlifters and some former collegiate athletes. My lack of leg and hip hypertrophy (nobody wants a frog butt) definitely made squat and deadlift progress much slower compared to the bench.
In the few situations I have been fortunate enough to see novices forced to pick up a barbell as part of unit PT, I have invariably witnessed thier bench structure (vertical and horizontal arch, foot position, etc) fail because they lack meat around the shoulder blades. There is, I believe, an nsca tactical fitness presentation that can be found on video that suggests this lack of upper back/shoulder hypertrophy contributes to injury in military populations.
Sadly, it is almost impossible to get unit leaders to approve hypertrophy focused PT, and even more difficult to implement it. The best bodybuilding work is both time consuming (50-plus reps per movement) and very specific to the individual (both in terms of load, and the exact movement that they respond best to).


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:39 am 
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Quote:
"Believe strongly that the world is on your side if you keep true to what is best in you." - Master Carlos Gracie
I love it.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:35 pm 
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3-5 work sets of 5-8 in the complex lifts. 3-4 sets of 8-12 in hypertrophy movements.

A complex movement and a hypertrophy movement for each bodypart 203 times a week.

Above focus on upper back is spot on.

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"Start slowly, then ease off". Tortuga Golden Striders Running Club, Pensacola 1984.

"But even snake wrestling beats life in the cube, for me at least. In measured doses."-Lex


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:49 pm 
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Quote:
3-5 work sets of 5-8 in the complex lifts. 3-4 sets of 8-12 in hypertrophy movements.
This seems to be "powerbuilding." I've used a similar scheme, with the addition of a few heavy sets (3s,2s,even singles) when I have time to incorporate the accessory work for hypertrophy, especially in my first few years of heavy benching. What kind of progression model do you use with this? Linear, weekly/monthly undulating periodization?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:22 pm 
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Quote:
Quote:
"Believe strongly that the world is on your side if you keep true to what is best in you." - Master Carlos Gracie
I love it.
Image

Good words for sure.

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"Believe strongly that the world is on your side if you keep true to what is best in you." - Master Carlos Gracie


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:47 pm 
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Quote:
Quote:
3-5 work sets of 5-8 in the complex lifts. 3-4 sets of 8-12 in hypertrophy movements.
This seems to be "powerbuilding." I've used a similar scheme, with the addition of a few heavy sets (3s,2s,even singles) when I have time to incorporate the accessory work for hypertrophy, especially in my first few years of heavy benching. What kind of progression model do you use with this? Linear, weekly/monthly undulating periodization?
I started off long, long ago doing linear periodization. I switched to the better monthly undulating periodization once I became a moderately successful lifter. In the end you need to be lifting heavier weights for more volume as you get bigger and stronger. That is what I do.

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"Start slowly, then ease off". Tortuga Golden Striders Running Club, Pensacola 1984.

"But even snake wrestling beats life in the cube, for me at least. In measured doses."-Lex


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