Ideas for "20 Years of Pavel Tsatsouline" series

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MeatPlow
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Re: Ideas for "20 Years of Pavel Tsatsouline" series

Post by MeatPlow » Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:01 pm

problem for me with Pavels stuff is that I don't want to lift frequently. If I had to lift 5-6 days per week I'd quit it for good. When I was younger and I was obsessed with lifting I'd be all in for the higher frequency and after a bit it would get old and I'd be back to the typical 3 days per week stuff.

I like doing what I like to do, and doing it the way I want regardless of every single study under the sun.

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Re: Ideas for "20 Years of Pavel Tsatsouline" series

Post by JamesonBushmill » Tue Dec 11, 2018 7:01 pm

no pavel, no proliferation of Strong First tattoos.

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Re: Ideas for "20 Years of Pavel Tsatsouline" series

Post by Titus66 » Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:25 pm

As stated earlier, I agree that Complexes & Chains (Fast Tens, Kettlebell Muscle & More Kettlebell Muscle, etc.) with various loads, is where KB’s shine.
Without Pavel, we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

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Re: Ideas for "20 Years of Pavel Tsatsouline" series

Post by Lych » Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:21 am

Fat Cat wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:40 pm
He kept to that basic formula in Power to the People, which remains an excellent primer for people interested in strength training. Even just recently I was doing a program very similar to it: press, pull, curls, just like in the book, for frequent low-volume workouts and getting great results. His ability to cut through the haze of choices facing a trainee and be like, "do this" and measure your results, is incredibly useful in this age of information overload is invaluable.

From there, his other notable works to me are Relax into Stretch and Russian Kettlebell Challenge. RIS remains my go to stretching book, and if I'm struggling in some area I will virtually always consult that book and use it's basic principles to address the problem. There's a reason why Louie Simmons was crazy about this book, and to be honest, if Pavel is a true expert at anything, it's flexibility training.

Finally, RKC and all the dogshit that came after it. Fedorenko may be the guy who introduced real, Russian GS-style training to the USA, but honestly nobody gives a fuck. Everyone knows it was Pavel who put KBs in the hands of a billion bros. He made them available, but more to the point, he got people excited about the idea. That's something really rare: the ability to recognize untapped value, generate enthusiasm for it, and then market it. Only a few people, guys like Arthur Jones, can do it. Pavel did it in spades. Now, anybody who looks at the original RKC video can see that Pavel is not the master of any fucking sport at all. He's terrible. I mean it. But he did have the basic idea that training a variety of high-tension and ballistic lifts with kettlebells could make almost anybody stronger and more athletic, and he was able to pass that on to many, many other people.
Seconded. Especially the first paragraph. There is so much fucking nonsense out there, it makes the direct, simple approaches that much more refreshing. In all the years between PTTP and now, the programs I have been on for the longest streaks are ones with that element. 5/3/1, 5x5, PTTP, and maybe SS. When it comes to other stuff like reverse pyramid cycling, or the RPE method etc, it isn't that there is no value in them, it's that I don't want to have to analyse my strength training that much. Too much other shit to worry about, and I'm sure many of you may perhaps agree.

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Re: Ideas for "20 Years of Pavel Tsatsouline" series

Post by Fat Cat » Tue Oct 01, 2019 5:51 pm

Yeah, the only programs I have enjoyed for long periods of time are SS, S&S, 5/3/1, PTTP, and Faleev 5 x 5. All very simple and easy to apply for those of us who are not eeeeeeeeeleeeeeeeeeet and don't have access to coaching.
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Re: Ideas for "20 Years of Pavel Tsatsouline" series

Post by Sua Sponte » Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:42 pm

Having been introduced to weightlifting via the Arthur Jones HIT method, undoubted contributions for me were more frequent, not to failure, and the deadlift being the key fundamental lift. With Jones, deadlifting was relegated mostly to SLDL with the squat being king.
Fat Cat wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:05 pm
If PTTP has an issue, IMHO, it's just that nobody really wants to do the side press. He should have stuck with the standing press or the floor press, or just go with the bench as it's what most guys want. Other than that, it's a superb program: deadlifts, presses, curls, done frequently at high intensity and low volume will make anyone stronger and more chiseled.
Curls? Not chin-ups? Never found PTTP style to be very good for small muscles. Great for deadlift, pretty good for military presses or dips, so-so for curls and the like. If looking to low reps the latter did better as 10x3 or 10x5 in a separate workout.

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Re: Ideas for "20 Years of Pavel Tsatsouline" series

Post by Lych » Tue Oct 01, 2019 9:25 pm

Sua Sponte wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:42 pm
Having been introduced to weightlifting via the Arthur Jones HIT method, undoubted contributions for me were more frequent, not to failure, and the deadlift being the key fundamental lift. With Jones, deadlifting was relegated mostly to SLDL with the squat being king.
Fat Cat wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:05 pm
If PTTP has an issue, IMHO, it's just that nobody really wants to do the side press. He should have stuck with the standing press or the floor press, or just go with the bench as it's what most guys want. Other than that, it's a superb program: deadlifts, presses, curls, done frequently at high intensity and low volume will make anyone stronger and more chiseled.
Curls? Not chin-ups? Never found PTTP style to be very good for small muscles. Great for deadlift, pretty good for military presses or dips, so-so for curls and the like. If looking to low reps the latter did better as 10x3 or 10x5 in a separate workout.
I bought PTTP in 2000, first edition, and thought it was fantastic. I followed it as written, ie, the DL and Side Press, and it was a great program. Personal opinion only, but I didn't even feel I needed curls or pull ups at that time, and straight bar DL actually helped my pull ups. Side press helped push-ups a lot. Arguably because I was just getting stronger in general, but nevertheless. Also personal opinion, I think exercise variety is more a necessity of the mind than it is of the body. People get bored easily it seems. JMO.

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Re: Ideas for "20 Years of Pavel Tsatsouline" series

Post by Fat Cat » Tue Oct 01, 2019 11:42 pm

Sua Sponte wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:42 pm
Having been introduced to weightlifting via the Arthur Jones HIT method, undoubted contributions for me were more frequent, not to failure, and the deadlift being the key fundamental lift. With Jones, deadlifting was relegated mostly to SLDL with the squat being king.
Fat Cat wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:05 pm
If PTTP has an issue, IMHO, it's just that nobody really wants to do the side press. He should have stuck with the standing press or the floor press, or just go with the bench as it's what most guys want. Other than that, it's a superb program: deadlifts, presses, curls, done frequently at high intensity and low volume will make anyone stronger and more chiseled.
Curls? Not chin-ups? Never found PTTP style to be very good for small muscles. Great for deadlift, pretty good for military presses or dips, so-so for curls and the like. If looking to low reps the latter did better as 10x3 or 10x5 in a separate workout.
Pavel specifically presents curls as part of the PTTP curriculum. Stop your chest-greasy aggressives.
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Re: Ideas for "20 Years of Pavel Tsatsouline" series

Post by Lych » Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:43 am

Fat Cat wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 11:42 pm
Stop your chest-greasy aggressives.
I'm not sure why that hit the right button, but I haven't laughed that hard at a post in a long time.

Sua Sponte, if you saw this thread that Mak posted, there are some goodies in there.

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Re: Ideas for "20 Years of Pavel Tsatsouline" series

Post by Sua Sponte » Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:51 pm

Fat Cat wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 11:42 pm
Pavel specifically presents curls as part of the PTTP curriculum. Stop your chest-greasy aggressives.
I had to go back and look, after I found the book, and it turns out you're right. Nobody's more shocked than me. Except maybe you.

He did say that he only included them because he knew Americans were gonna do it anyway, so might as well do it right. Is a different way of doing them than I've done.

Did you make much progress on PTTP-style curls? Did you get a hint of pecs along with your gorilla traps? Or was it mostly WTH effect?

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Re: Ideas for "20 Years of Pavel Tsatsouline" series

Post by Fat Cat » Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:32 pm

Well I got better at the deadlift, and I really do like his way of curling. It actually gave me some of the best pipes I've had, as mine are stubborn and unresponsive.
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Re: Ideas for "20 Years of Pavel Tsatsouline" series

Post by Sua Sponte » Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:03 pm

Lych wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:43 am
Sua Sponte, if you saw this thread that Mak posted, there are some goodies in there.
Thanks, Lych.

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Re: Ideas for "20 Years of Pavel Tsatsouline" series

Post by Sua Sponte » Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:04 pm

Fat Cat wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:32 pm
Well I got better at the deadlift, and I really do like his way of curling. It actually gave me some of the best pipes I've had, as mine are stubborn and unresponsive.
I'll give it a shot. Elbows and shoulders are getting cranky from chin-ups anyway.

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Re: Ideas for "20 Years of Pavel Tsatsouline" series

Post by Fat Cat » Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:25 pm

Setting aside the issue of chin ups, curls are an excellent and underrated exercise outside of *aestheticcc* circles.
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Re: Ideas for "20 Years of Pavel Tsatsouline" series

Post by Sua Sponte » Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:14 pm

True. I've never found the conventional wisdom to be true; upper body pulling, for me anyway, doesn't develop biceps strength and size the way single joint does. Not so triceps.

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Re: Ideas for "20 Years of Pavel Tsatsouline" series

Post by Lych » Thu Oct 03, 2019 12:36 am

Sua Sponte wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:14 pm
True. I've never found the conventional wisdom to be true; upper body pulling, for me anyway, doesn't develop biceps strength and size the way single joint does. Not so triceps.
Same here. I've never needed any tri specific work. What they get from close grip, dips, overheads etc is enough. Biceps on the other hand, need some direct attention.

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Re: Ideas for "20 Years of Pavel Tsatsouline" series

Post by Grandpa's Spells » Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:28 pm

For whatever reason, drop sets of tricep pushdowns and overhead "kick overs" resulted in significant tricep grown in my 20's in a way close grip BP or other exercises never did.
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Re: Ideas for "20 Years of Pavel Tsatsouline" series

Post by Fat Cat » Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:32 pm

Triceps pushdowns are a great exercise, I always liked it with the v-bar. I am #homegymmasterrace now so I don't do them, but it's a great movement. With free weights, the next best thing I have found are dips (good for whole upper body) and for direct triceps, the lying triceps extension.
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Re: Ideas for "20 Years of Pavel Tsatsouline" series

Post by Sangoma » Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:37 am

To be honest I am getting over Pavel's writings. Sure, his books are interesting and have useful info. However, as Powerlifter54 said in another thread, hucksterism in the fitness industry is prevalent, and I get suspicious if someone writes more than couple of books on training. Yes, PTTP was fresh and Easy Strength had some nice ideas. But eventually you run out of Soviet and Russian sports science to translate (I know that first hand), and things start looking feeble. Pavel's latest article on myostromin has references to 1949 and 1958. Really?

Cudos to him for building an empire of followers who are prepared to pay big bucks for seminars and courses. As well as for coming up with the ultimate minimalist programs every couple of years. His name is a guarantee of a program or method becoming a big success. But maybe I am reading too much or getting grumpy as I age, I am losing interest.
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Re: Ideas for "20 Years of Pavel Tsatsouline" series

Post by Sua Sponte » Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:12 pm

It's not a matter of getting over his writings. It's a matter of discernment and utility. PTTP, RIS and Beyond Bodybuilding were all pretty good, although I could never catch the body building bug for very long. Good then, still good now.

PTTP has always yielded good results on a minimalist program on minimal time for those of us who want all the benefits of strength training without bodybuilding or complicated periodization with the zoo of exercises found in most programs. Westside makes my head hurt. Lych is right that a change in exercises is good for the head, but mixing up some form of deadlift, with mil press or dips or banded push-ups and, if you really want, chin/pull ups or rows PTTP-style for variety have always delivered the best, most lasting results for me. I spend my recreational time hiking up, through and around these Montana mountains and that lifting routine has supported that passion without ever interfering with it. Timeless.

I don't get all the KB books but I never caught that strain of physical culture virus either. Swings are great, KB mil presses too, but LC, snatches and all the circus tricks have never been my fancy . The fact he wrote them and they never resonated doesn't diminish what did.

I'm curious about The Quick and the Dead as it would, if it performs half near its claims, be very supportive of my goal. Not curious enough to have yet tried it but it is different than what came before it and most of all else that's out there. If it turns out to be nothing, at least it was thought provoking.

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