More impressive: Lomo v. Holloway

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More impressive: Lomo v. Holloway

Post by Turdacious » Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:09 am

Both fought this weekend coming off layoffs. Who was more impressive? Discuss.
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Re: More impressive: Lomo v. Holloway

Post by Kazuya Mishima » Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:12 am

I didn't watch Holloway but fucking up Ortega is impressive.

Loma looked like he was in a sparring match. Not his most impressive outing. I don't know if he was tentative, or if enough footage is out there now that guys have downloaded him a little bit. Props to Pedraza for surviving but Loma was patient to a fault.

We are in a bit of a golden age in boxing right now. So many stars in so many weight classes. Loma is P4P one of the best of all time, but I don't think he's the best P4P right now. That would be Crawford.

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Re: More impressive: Lomo v. Holloway

Post by Bram » Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:07 am

Holloway set the record for strikes landed in a UFC fight, and did it in 4 rounds. The final round he was knocking out huge combos unanswered. Good fight to watch in total as Ortega rallied in the 3rd.
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Re: More impressive: Lomo v. Holloway

Post by Turdacious » Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:47 am

Kazuya Mishima wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:12 am
I didn't watch Holloway but fucking up Ortega is impressive.

Loma looked like he was in a sparring match. Not his most impressive outing. I don't know if he was tentative, or if enough footage is out there now that guys have downloaded him a little bit. Props to Pedraza for surviving but Loma was patient to a fault.

We are in a bit of a golden age in boxing right now. So many stars in so many weight classes.
Loma is P4P one of the best of all time, but I don't think he's the best P4P right now. That would be Crawford.
This. Lomo reminds me more and more of Pernell Whitaker-- sweetest technical fighter out there but not the top draw.

I was impressed by Holloway's swagger during the fight. Calling the fight between the third and fourth round, and making it happen, was badass.
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Re: More impressive: Lomo v. Holloway

Post by Really Big Strong Guy » Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:00 pm

Every time I watch Loma fight, I'm amazed at how well he makes people miss and how accurate he punches with such fluidity. It's so effortless. Crawford expels more effort with his craft; but equally impressive in my opinion, but different.

Curious to watch Garcia and Spence. That's a big step up for Mikey. Loma against Garcia would be a more competitive and absolutely amazing technical fight. But it will never happen because of political promotional bullshit. Likely the same with Crawford and Spence.

Oh, and I love what happened with Wilder and Fury. Great heavyweight fight. if Wilder had any real boxing skills at all he would be unstoppable. Likely the best athlete in the division since Lewis.
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Re: More impressive: Lomo v. Holloway

Post by Fat Cat » Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:24 pm

I didn't watch the Lomo fight, but I did watch Holloway x Ortega. You can't escape the blessed era on this island. You often have fighters with a high rate of fire, and others with excellent accuracy, but it's rare to see those combined the way Max does. He legit turned Ortega's face to mush. IMHO, Ortega's boxing was actually pretty impressive but strategically an error. He should've focused on his wrestling to deny Max his striking advantage, put him up against the cage, and worked a takedown to submission later in the game.
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Re: More impressive: Lomo v. Holloway

Post by Bram » Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:26 am

Fat Cat wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:24 pm
I didn't watch the Lomo fight, but I did watch Holloway x Ortega. You can't escape the blessed era on this island. You often have fighters with a high rate of fire, and others with excellent accuracy, but it's rare to see those combined the way Max does. He legit turned Ortega's face to mush. IMHO, Ortega's boxing was actually pretty impressive but strategically an error. He should've focused on his wrestling to deny Max his striking advantage, put him up against the cage, and worked a takedown to submission later in the game.
Ortega's successful career takedown percentage is a lowly 16% and Max's takedown defense is a strong 65%. Ortega's squeeze (hooks and chokes) is perfect, but he's gotta integrate a good wrestling game too.
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Re: More impressive: Lomo v. Holloway

Post by Bram » Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:28 am

:heart: :drinkers:
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Re: More impressive: Lomo v. Holloway

Post by Fat Cat » Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:00 am

Honestly, the UFC ruleset favors a striker with takedown defense to a grappler with good takedowns, but if you ever imagine you're gonna see a jiu-jitsu guy at the top of the heap he's got to have absolutely world class takedowns. Better than we have seen from guys like Maia or T-City.
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Re: More impressive: Lomo v. Holloway

Post by Bram » Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:23 am

You're right.

Maia, who at one time was hitting a lot of takedowns, is mired at 25%. The best is oddly enough Robbie Lawler at 76%, with GSP closely behind in third with 73%. I can't think of Robbie Lawler fucking anyone up with his wrestling, but GSP made a career of Jab-Takedown-Ground and Pound.
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Re: More impressive: Lomo v. Holloway

Post by Fat Cat » Thu Dec 13, 2018 2:01 am

Glad you mentioned GSP. To me he's the sole template for how you can succeed on the ground: strike to enter, blast double, and smash 'em. Pretty much what Fedor used to do. It meets all the new UFC criteria of effective striking, grappling, control of the fighting area, and aggressiveness so no judge can cheat you. It's also the only strategy that won't leave you a retard by the end of your career.
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Re: More impressive: Lomo v. Holloway

Post by Bram » Thu Dec 13, 2018 11:25 pm

Another stat of GSP is second-least absorbed strikes per minute of all time at .99

Do the most damage, take the least damage has to be the most reasonable fighting style.

That said....the guy still has suffered beatings. Hard to avoid the fact that at the end of the day you're in a sport where people can knee, kick, elbow and punch you in the head.
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Re: More impressive: Lomo v. Holloway

Post by Fat Cat » Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:23 am

Paging Matt Serra.
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Re: More impressive: Lomo v. Holloway

Post by Bram » Sat Dec 15, 2018 1:18 am

And Serra's also a good lesson to take everyone seriously in a fight.

The only two times I was choked unconscious in martial arts was by people I outweighed by 50lbs. Those two chokings make me much more non-violent in life because I realized you couldn't underestimate people.
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Re: More impressive: Lomo v. Holloway

Post by Fat Cat » Sat Dec 15, 2018 1:39 am

"By the sword you did your work, and by the sword you die." -Agamemnon, Aeschylus

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Re: More impressive: Lomo v. Holloway

Post by Kazuya Mishima » Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:57 pm

On the subject of impressive striking performances...Canelo looked like a monster over the weekend against Rocky Fielding. Clearly outmatched, but Fielding is an accomplished professional, nonetheless. There are few things more impressive to me in the combat sports realm than putting a man down with body shots. Canelo's digs to the liver were just brutal.

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Re: More impressive: Lomo v. Holloway

Post by Really Big Strong Guy » Mon Dec 17, 2018 4:16 pm

Kazuya Mishima wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:57 pm
On the subject of impressive striking performances...Canelo looked like a monster over the weekend against Rocky Fielding. Clearly outmatched, but Fielding is an accomplished professional, nonetheless. There are few things more impressive to me in the combat sports realm than putting a man down with body shots. Canelo's digs to the liver were just brutal.
Absolutely agreed. That was a clinic on how to fight a taller fighter. Canelo is a very skilled boxer. I am still not convinced he beat GGG; but what he did against Fielding was truly an example of how skilled he is as a pugilist.
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