Pavhole's new book is out today

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Kazuya Mishima
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Re: Pavhole's new book is out today

Post by Kazuya Mishima » Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:48 pm

SubClaw wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 6:41 pm
I just purchased the Kindle version and took a hasty look at the thing.
That's odd. I can't find the Kindle version.

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Re: Pavhole's new book is out today

Post by SubClaw » Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:55 pm

Kazuya Mishima wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:48 pm
SubClaw wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 6:41 pm
I just purchased the Kindle version and took a hasty look at the thing.
That's odd. I can't find the Kindle version.
Your Google-Fu must be slightly out of whack.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07W2WMZGP/re ... way&sr=8-6

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Re: Pavhole's new book is out today

Post by Kazuya Mishima » Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:43 pm

SubClaw wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:55 pm
Kazuya Mishima wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:48 pm
SubClaw wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 6:41 pm
I just purchased the Kindle version and took a hasty look at the thing.
That's odd. I can't find the Kindle version.
Your Google-Fu must be slightly out of whack.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07W2WMZGP/re ... way&sr=8-6
That is fucking crazy. Could NOT find that earlier. Anyway...thanks!

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Re: Pavhole's new book is out today

Post by Sangoma » Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:03 am

I got it too. Interesting - and less fluff than I expected, though sufficiently enough. I sort of both agree and disagree why it is more suitable for more advanced trainees. It actually motivates me to try get to the Simple standard from S&S. Unfortunately can't do snatches or TGUs right now because of my fucking shoulder.
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Re: Pavhole's new book is out today

Post by newguy » Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:28 am

If you don't mind -
What is the central argument for why this is something that is for advanced trainees as opposed to a beginner protocol?
What is the basic gist? What's your takeaway? The good, the bad, the ugly, the beautiful?

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Re: Pavhole's new book is out today

Post by Fat Cat » Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:37 am

newguy wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:28 am
If you don't mind -
What is the central argument for why this is something that is for advanced trainees as opposed to a beginner protocol?
What is the basic gist? What's your takeaway? The good, the bad, the ugly, the beautiful?
So that they can sell you S&S first. Is obviously.
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Re: Pavhole's new book is out today

Post by Sangoma » Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:07 am

Well, that's one reason obviously. They quote two main reasons. First, you need a foundation of strength, because without it you cannot express maximal power (required for Q&D), Second, power is learned skill. Low level athlete needs the resistance of muscle congestion to exert against. He or she is unable to just explode against moderate weight. As the result beginners lack the intensity needed to produce the desired metabolic effects, find the workout ridiculously easy and only net partial adaptation.

That's Pavel's words slightly paraphrased. I am not sure I agree one hundred percent. But then I have no authority to argue anyway.

The protocol is fairly simple, and I will summarize it on my blog when I have the time. Pretty much what I wrote in the Stron Endurance thread with a few tweaks. The good - it's a relatively new training method that adds to the opposition of "no pain no gain" mentality. The ugly - not much.

I am very curious to see Q&D discussions on Strong First forum - how they are going to mix answering questions with super secrecy of protocols. Accompanying by the soundtrack of "the most", "groundbreaking", "revolution" etc.
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Re: Pavhole's new book is out today

Post by newguy » Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:15 am

Is it a must buy? A good buy? A "you're not poor and it's worth ten bones" buy? A "what the fuck are spending 10 dollars and this shit for???? Go get a lap dance."

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Re: Pavhole's new book is out today

Post by newguy » Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:45 am

Okay - I'm not poor (at least not very poor) and have been known to throw down far more than 10 bones on a cocktail. So I figured fuck it, but the book.

Just starting to read.....and a concept -
Pavel is writing that as we grow older we first lose speed, then strength, then endurance. You will never see a fast 70 year old but you can see older people doing great endurance work.

I feel that he is going to use this as an argument to continue to train speed/strength (power).

But I am instantly wondering....why fight a losing battle? If I'm going to lose the strength and speed, why not just get the endurance going now?

I'm only a few pages in, but that is my first question.

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Re: Pavhole's new book is out today

Post by SubClaw » Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:19 am

newguy wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:15 am
Is it a must buy? A good buy? A "you're not poor and it's worth ten bones" buy? A "what the fuck are spending 10 dollars and this shit for???? Go get a lap dance."
I think it's a worthy purchase. Definitely NOT a must have. More like nice to have.

The biochemistry chapters alone (if you are into that) are interesting enough to merit the purchase.

The program itself? No, thank you.

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Re: Pavhole's new book is out today

Post by Hanglow Joe » Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:35 pm

I already went over my budget for frivolous purchases spending $17 to cut 5 strokes off my golf handicap. If I could putt it would be 8-10 strokes.

Ladders 1,2,3 for a 28 kg press, Ladders for swings 10, 20, 30 and jumping rope is working for me. I'm 50, I don't need power and explosion.

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Re: Pavhole's new book is out today

Post by SubClaw » Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:13 pm

Hanglow Joe wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:35 pm
I already went over my budget for frivolous purchases spending $17 to cut 5 strokes off my golf handicap. If I could putt it would be 8-10 strokes.

Ladders 1,2,3 for a 28 kg press, Ladders for swings 10, 20, 30 and jumping rope is working for me. I'm 50, I don't need power and explosion.
How about a few Blackstone Valley blog post ladders? :finga:

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Re: Pavhole's new book is out today

Post by Kazuya Mishima » Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:08 pm

The benefits claimed are pretty...out there. More power, more speed, more muscle, less fat, higher testosterone, lower cortisol, lower free radicals, de-aging, etc. All with a workout that takes little time, doesn't require red-faced huffing and puffing, and won't wreck you for days.

So, I'm skeptical, but I will likely add this in at least twice a week.

I'll probably use the "streamlined" approach that was described...0.00 do 10 swings, 1:30 do 10 pushups, 3:00 do 10 swings, repeat cycle until you've accumulated your daily target of 40, 60, 80, or 100 reps in both exercises. And I probably won't roll the dice and modulate the volume, I'll just do the 100 reps. And I'm not doing kettlebell snatches because fuck kettlebell snatches. If 100 pushups and 100 swings in 30 minutes, two or three times a week wrecks me then I need to sign up for Pilates and water aerobics. So, basically I'm cherry picking the piece that I like and ignoring the rest of the programming advice (what I basically do with all of Pavel's stuff...find what appears to be the peanut M&M in the turd).

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Re: Pavhole's new book is out today

Post by SubClaw » Fri Aug 02, 2019 3:31 pm

Kazuya Mishima wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:08 pm
The benefits claimed are pretty...out there. More power, more speed, more muscle, less fat, higher testosterone, lower cortisol, lower free radicals, de-aging, etc. All with a workout that takes little time, doesn't require red-faced huffing and puffing, and won't wreck you for days.

So, I'm skeptical, but I will likely add this in at least twice a week.

I'll probably use the "streamlined" approach that was described...0.00 do 10 swings, 1:30 do 10 pushups, 3:00 do 10 swings, repeat cycle until you've accumulated your daily target of 40, 60, 80, or 100 reps in both exercises. And I probably won't roll the dice and modulate the volume, I'll just do the 100 reps. And I'm not doing kettlebell snatches because fuck kettlebell snatches. If 100 pushups and 100 swings in 30 minutes, two or three times a week wrecks me then I need to sign up for Pilates and water aerobics. So, basically I'm cherry picking the piece that I like and ignoring the rest of the programming advice (what I basically do with all of Pavel's stuff...find what appears to be the peanut M&M in the turd).
The main drawback for me is the exclusive use of ballistic movements. I know there is a solid scientific foundation that supports it, but I have zero interest in training like that.

Q&D seems to be, at its core, a bunch of very, very, very short and intense sprints with ninety second rests interspersed.

I'd rather follow a slow and steady protocol instead: Justa singles/girevoy sport/grinds on the minute/50-20/whatever... combined with good old Maffetone/NikoNiko running.

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Re: Pavhole's new book is out today

Post by Grandpa's Spells » Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:14 pm

higher testosterone, lower cortisol
Did they really have people doing before/after CBC panels to confirm this?
One of the downsides of the Internet is that it allows like-minded people to form communities, and sometimes those communities are stupid.

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Re: Pavhole's new book is out today

Post by Kazuya Mishima » Fri Aug 02, 2019 7:37 pm

Grandpa's Spells wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:14 pm
higher testosterone, lower cortisol
Did they really have people doing before/after CBC panels to confirm this?
Well, of course not. He mainly cites studies and the positive effects on testosterone from power/speed training. The only finding that's referenced is Dr. Craig Marker had his test go up by 110 units (whatever that means) after six weeks of Q&D. YMMV.

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Re: Pavhole's new book is out today

Post by Hanglow Joe » Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:11 pm

If Shill Dr. McGill isn't quoted in it, I'm not buying.

"I'm a man in my 50's with ED, but in the last 3 days I've done the Quick and the Dead program. My arms are already swole and so is my dick when I wake up in the morning. My shipment of Testosterone Booster arrives Monday, but I just might return it. Thank you Pavel."

You're right SubClaw, I'm due for a post. Lots to report too.

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Re: Pavhole's new book is out today

Post by DikTracy6000 » Sat Aug 03, 2019 4:26 pm

Hanglow Joe wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:11 pm
If Shill Dr. McGill isn't quoted in it, I'm not buying.

"I'm a man in my 50's with ED, but in the last 3 days I've done the Quick and the Dead program. My arms are already swole and so is my dick when I wake up in the morning. My shipment of Testosterone Booster arrives Monday, but I just might return it. Thank you Pavel."

You're right SubClaw, I'm due for a post. Lots to report too.
Thanks for reminding me, McGill's Big three helped to stabilize my back. Will be putting that back in my daily routine.

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Re: Pavhole's new book is out today

Post by Sangoma » Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:36 am

So. The book is not bad. It is an interesting program with interesting promises. My shoulders don't allow me doing heavy snatches, so I am going to stick with what I am currently doing.

There is a bit of a headache involved in determining the starting bell - I am definitely not going to part with $300 for an accelerometer. I don't think it has to be terribly precise either. But the program itself is fairly simple. I would even do the dice toss to follow the variety recommendation.

On the side note, because of Q&D I've been reading StrongFirst forum lately. My fuck, Freides reminds me of the old sleazy orthodox from the USSR. He actively encourages snitching. Mind you, some of the posters seem to be on the same page with him or better: " Steve, should we also report improprieties in the personal training logs if we see any?" - " Yes! Absolutely!" Makes me want to puke.
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Re: Pavhole's new book is out today

Post by Shafpocalypse Now » Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:17 am

No need for an accelerometer.

You just start under where you should, you'll get a rapid improvement and settle just about where you should be, if you've got a decent amount of training experience behind.

This entire book looks like it was inspired by Clarence Bass starting up olympic lifting and jumping again.

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Re: Pavhole's new book is out today

Post by SubClaw » Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:06 am

Sangoma wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:36 am
So. The book is not bad. It is an interesting program with interesting promises. My shoulders don't allow me doing heavy snatches, so I am going to stick with what I am currently doing.

There is a bit of a headache involved in determining the starting bell - I am definitely not going to part with $300 for an accelerometer. I don't think it has to be terribly precise either. But the program itself is fairly simple. I would even do the dice toss to follow the variety recommendation.

On the side note, because of Q&D I've been reading StrongFirst forum lately. My fuck, Freides reminds me of the old sleazy orthodox from the USSR. He actively encourages snitching. Mind you, some of the posters seem to be on the same page with him or better: " Steve, should we also report improprieties in the personal training logs if we see any?" - " Yes! Absolutely!" Makes me want to puke.
I kind of understand they are selling a certain way to do things, so too much leeway from the official doctrine is actively discouraged. But it's getting ridiculous.

This guy was asking for help about his back angle while deadlifting. He posted a form check video which, apparently, was sort of okay. Then some official SF instructor offered some advice and recommended Rippetoe's five step setup.

Caught off-guard, Freides promptly ended the heresy with a curt: "that's not the way SF teaches to deadlift". And that was the end of it (I'm pretty sure the instructor must have caught some flak from the Inquisition Master).

It's not enough that they preach their way is the best way. Apparently, it's the only way too. Un-fucking-believable.

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Re: Pavhole's new book is out today

Post by Sangoma » Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:09 am

I am probably projecting some childhood deficiency, but I seriously dislike snitching and anybody who is encouraging others to snitch. As well as self-righteous pricks who think they are entitled of teaching others good manners.
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Re: Pavhole's new book is out today

Post by Shafpocalypse Now » Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:14 pm

Sangoma, you are not alone. I find all that shit repugnant as well.

This is what happens when you put someone in control of administrative duties who is, in every way, a 'small man'.

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Re: Pavhole's new book is out today

Post by Grandpa's Spells » Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:36 pm

Freides seems like the kind of guy who runs for condo boards or housing associations in places he doesn't live.
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Re: Pavhole's new book is out today

Post by Kazuya Mishima » Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:04 pm

If you don't feel the urge to punch this face you have fragile telomeres.

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