Been eating 95+% Meat, Fish and Eggs for 8 months

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Bennyonesix1
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Been eating 95+% Meat, Fish and Eggs for 8 months

Post by Bennyonesix1 » Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:21 pm

It's been a huge success so far. I suppose this is "The Carnivore Diet", but I didn't learn that until recently. And I wasn't shooting for a ketogenic diet either. I just got here through food elimination by following the only things I firmly believe about diet: 1) Eating healthy is about what you don't eat, not what you do eat and; 2) insulin control is paramount.

So, a few years back I cut out flour. Worked great and I felt better. Much less cycling into low blood sugar and my stomach felt better.

Then, a little over a year ago I read Gundry's books and cut out New World vegetables. Even better improvement in my guts and lots of aches and pains went away.

About a year ago, I took a look at my diet and noticed I ate a whole lot of starches. I still had some cycling into low blood sugar etc. But the biggest thing was all the corn chips and french fries I was eating. And how I looked forward to eating them and almost planned where and what I would get. And how it took willpower to stop eating those things. So, I cut them out as well. More improvement in all areas.

At this point I was eating green salads and meat and fish but letting myself eat sugar in the form of ice cream. Always at night because of the better insulin response. Like I said, things were going good even hitting the ice cream every night to the tune of a thousand kcals. My maintenance was about 3200kcals. And I had enough protein so I figured I was just getting my carbs from sugar. And it was working well, if unorthodox.

Then the ice cream just got old, so I quit that. I was down yo meat, eggs, fish and green salads.

Then the salads began to seem pointless and contrived. So, i quit them.

About 4 weeks later, I realized how great I felt. Like really great.

Six months or so after that and I still feel great. Bloodwork is solid except serum cholesterol is really high but I don't have any predisposition to heart attacks in my family and from the research I've read serum cholesterol isn't related to heart disease anyway. And my CAC score was solid.

The biggest benefit is from the insulin control. I have no cravings at all. Food is just something I need to eat occasionally. It tastes good but I don't think about it. I have loads of energy for lomg stretches (10+ hours) and don't eat until I begin to think "I should probably eat something". The one caveat being: I need to keep the fat consumption high. If I let that fall off, I get lethargic but not hungry.

Two weird things are 1) I don't feel the need to drive myself into the ground at the gym. And 2) heat is not really a problem for me compared to what it was a year ago. I mean, I'm North European and Irish, so I'll never be happy in the humidity. But I can take it now, and I'm ok with the house at 80deg.

Obviously, this could all be because of sugar. I don't know. Maybe If I had just cut that out to start with, I'd have gotten all the benefit and still been able to eat flour and starch. Maybe. But I don't want it though and don't need it. It doesn't even seem like food to me these days. When I want to eat, I want red meat.

I eat on most days 2 pounds of hamburger (grass raised and finished) 6-8 eggs and some tuna or sardines or canned salmon. About 2200kcals. Butter and cream as well.

I also take Mag, Zinc, B-complex, Bromelain and Vitamin C.

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Re: Been eating 95+% Meat, Fish and Eggs for 8 months

Post by Bennyonesix1 » Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:29 pm

For the record, I don't think "meat heals" or has any magical properties. I'm also not a fan of evolutionary explanations. I just cut things out and felt better every time.

I've also always thought eating was dumb and a waste of time. And I was always annoyed that I had cravings for dumb things like french fries and ice cream and cake etc.

I also have about 6 Guinness Stouts a week.

Cheese is the weirdest thing for me. I will simply eat whatever is in the house if I have one piece. I just keep eating it until it is gone. Doesn't matter what kind or how much is there: I'll eat it all. Can't figure it out. No sugar or carbs or starch.

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Re: Been eating 95+% Meat, Fish and Eggs for 8 months

Post by Sangoma » Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:34 pm

Benny, do you do any endurance activity in your training? If so, any change in how It is since your switch?
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Re: Been eating 95+% Meat, Fish and Eggs for 8 months

Post by Bennyonesix1 » Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:46 pm

Good point. I do none now. It seems insane. I do the advanced pilates routine from Lyon's Pilates for Men every morning. That's about 33-35 minutes of steady work and I run a mile before lifting and want to quit (mostly bored) after about 30 min. But strength has stayed the same with less work. I haven't tried and have no desire to try any serious long distances since starting this. I know the science is that ketosis and hard endurance don't mix. The gluconeogenesis(?) required spikes cortisol. Probably me interpreting physiologic stuff for psychological.

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Re: Been eating 95+% Meat, Fish and Eggs for 8 months

Post by Beer Jew » Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:29 pm

Have you noticed a change in body comp?

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Re: Been eating 95+% Meat, Fish and Eggs for 8 months

Post by Bennyonesix1 » Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:11 am

Absolutely. Pretty amazing. The weight flew off. I attribute that to the satiety of fat esp saturated fat. Not to any special property of meat etc. It is really hard, maybe even impossible absent some medical condition to over-eat. Some days it is hard to eat maintenance in that I forgot to eat. I'd bet a low as you can tolerate fat version would be incredible for rapid weightloss. I conceptualize it as: protein is for maintenance/gain of lean mass and fat is fuel.

Edit

Ketosis probably helps as well with the appetite and hunger suppression(?). It is almost certainly ketogenic. But I haven't checked my personal reading.

Also, the areas were I never seemed to lose weight, lost weight. This may be hormonal, I don't know. My total test stayed around 900 and my free test dipped a little.

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Re: Been eating 95+% Meat, Fish and Eggs for 8 months

Post by Bennyonesix1 » Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:45 am

On pondering this, I doubt I would advise someone eating the Standard American Diet to jump right into something like this. It won't hurt you, but it might really suck. And adherence would suffer. After all, it was a long process for me.

I'd say first start intermittent fasting to get the insulin under some kind of control. Second, cut out starches (I'm in the minority on this but think they are really bad except maybe sweet potatoes) but leave in flour. Third, cut out the flour. Fourth, cut the vegetables. Fifth, cut the sugar. Each step is a month.

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Re: Been eating 95+% Meat, Fish and Eggs for 8 months

Post by Gene » Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:14 am

Bennyonesix1 wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:11 am
Absolutely. Pretty amazing. The weight flew off. I attribute that to the satiety of fat esp saturated fat. Not to any special property of meat etc. It is really hard, maybe even impossible absent some medical condition to over-eat. Some days it is hard to eat maintenance in that I forgot to eat. I'd bet a low as you can tolerate fat version would be incredible for rapid weightloss. I conceptualize it as: protein is for maintenance/gain of lean mass and fat is fuel.

Edit

Ketosis probably helps as well with the appetite and hunger suppression(?). It is almost certainly ketogenic. But I haven't checked my personal reading.

Also, the areas were I never seemed to lose weight, lost weight. This may be hormonal, I don't know. My total test stayed around 900 and my free test dipped a little.
Yeah if I get the ketones up with saturated fats I don't want to eat much.

If I go above about 125 grams of protein per day my blood sugars will start to go up. Everyone is a little different.

If you want to measure them you can get the Abbot DSS meter. The urine sticks are not that good.

https://www.amazon.com/DSS-Precision-Gl ... 175&sr=8-3

The strips are normally $5.00 a shot. You can get bargains on Amazon. The vendors sell sticks that are close to their expiration date.
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Re: Been eating 95+% Meat, Fish and Eggs for 8 months

Post by Bennyonesix1 » Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:53 am

That's interesting about the 125g protein level and gluconeogenesis. I may not be in ketosis at all. Probably not the "therapeutic" level anyway. I'm not really that concerned about it. I've done ketosis before and never felt anything like this. I felt good, don't get me wrong, but I never managed to stick with it. Compliance was hard with all the goofy options. And my calories would creep up and I'd raid a donut shop at some point. I would have a better shot with eating the same thing every day as I am now. But this "feels" different for whatever that is worth.

Edit

This makes me think I should get my insulin checked over a 24 hr period. I have been assuming it is level or healthy based on how I feel and hunger and lack of cravings, but I don't know that. That interests me more than ketosis.

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Re: Been eating 95+% Meat, Fish and Eggs for 8 months

Post by newguy » Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:10 pm

When it comes to meat only/keto low carb diets and exercise.

For me -
Low level cardio (think 120-130 beats per minute) doable, but tough. I will get winded and tired on the elliptical. Jogging for any distance is hard. Running for distance is impossible. Maybe it takes longer adaptation times, I don't know.
Lower level cardio - 110 to walking levels, hiking, "manual labor" etc. - you can go forever. Like, you never, ever get tired or winded or hungry. It's crazy.
Lifting - Power to the People style works great. You can get some more volume in per session instead of going daily, but you need long rests between sets. Low reps sets (five) with long breaks.
KBs - the slower lifts, 1 arm long cycle, work really well. Quicker lifts, snatches - treat like swings. Short sets, long rest.
Traditional bodybuilding is out. Circuit training out. HIIT out.....
Walking. Lots and lots of walking. Heavy hands is great here.

That's what I have found.

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Re: Been eating 95+% Meat, Fish and Eggs for 8 months

Post by SubClaw » Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:16 pm

Keto and martial arts never worked for me.

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Re: Been eating 95+% Meat, Fish and Eggs for 8 months

Post by newguy » Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:41 pm

What kind of martial arts?

It makes sense. Repeated explosive power efforts.....

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Re: Been eating 95+% Meat, Fish and Eggs for 8 months

Post by Gene » Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:20 pm

Bennyonesix1 wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:53 am
That's interesting about the 125g protein level and gluconeogenesis. I may not be in ketosis at all. Probably not the "therapeutic" level anyway. I'm not really that concerned about it. I've done ketosis before and never felt anything like this. I felt good, don't get me wrong, but I never managed to stick with it. Compliance was hard with all the goofy options. And my calories would creep up and I'd raid a donut shop at some point. I would have a better shot with eating the same thing every day as I am now. But this "feels" different for whatever that is worth.
You may have had Atkins Flu but that's an uneducated guess. Atkins happens when you forget to keep your sodium levels high. When I forget to drink salt water I feel run down. If I go too long I have sleep disturbances.

I "lucked out", a lot of donuts have dairy in them. More for the rest of you.



Edit
Bennyonesix1 wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:53 am
This makes me think I should get my insulin checked over a 24 hr period. I have been assuming it is level or healthy based on how I feel and hunger and lack of cravings, but I don't know that. That interests me more than ketosis.
I've been using blood pressure as an estimator of insulin levels. They tend to pace each other. Again, this is a guess. Most of the time my blood pressure is under 120/80.

If you do a 24 hour Insulin check that might give you some insights. I'd be interested to know how it goes for you.
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Re: Been eating 95+% Meat, Fish and Eggs for 8 months

Post by Bennyonesix1 » Sat Aug 10, 2019 7:01 pm

The bp info was nice. It's good in the a.m. whenever I've checked. But I'll take it circa meals and some other times to see.

As to atkins, I liked it. I bought some electrolyte drops and that killed the flu symptoms. But this feels different. After what you said above re: protein lvl, I doubt I am in ketosis. But I bet my insulin is still flat-line all day.

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Re: Been eating 95+% Meat, Fish and Eggs for 8 months

Post by Bennyonesix1 » Sat Aug 10, 2019 7:07 pm

newguy wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:10 pm
When it comes to meat only/keto low carb diets and exercise.

For me -
Low level cardio (think 120-130 beats per minute) doable, but tough. I will get winded and tired on the elliptical. Jogging for any distance is hard. Running for distance is impossible. Maybe it takes longer adaptation times, I don't know.
Lower level cardio - 110 to walking levels, hiking, "manual labor" etc. - you can go forever. Like, you never, ever get tired or winded or hungry. It's crazy.
Lifting - Power to the People style works great. You can get some more volume in per session instead of going daily, but you need long rests between sets. Low reps sets (five) with long breaks.
KBs - the slower lifts, 1 arm long cycle, work really well. Quicker lifts, snatches - treat like swings. Short sets, long rest.
Traditional bodybuilding is out. Circuit training out. HIIT out.....
Walking. Lots and lots of walking. Heavy hands is great here.

That's what I have found.

Well said. Did you notice any better adaptation to heat while on "carnivore" style diet? And how did fat intake effect things for you?

Been researching the fat intake. Found an interesting story from a guy who went to South America in the 1900's. He and his guides were eating entirely pemmican. But he had some qualms about the guide's high-fat version, so he brought along a bunch of low fat pemmican. When the guides ran out of their own and started using the low fat stuff, they quit and went home. They said the heat would kill them w/o the fat. He then tried the high fat and said it worked. After he went home, he kept eating it in the summer and did great, but his MD friends freaked out and thought he was going to die.

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Re: Been eating 95+% Meat, Fish and Eggs for 8 months

Post by SubClaw » Sat Aug 10, 2019 9:20 pm

newguy wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:41 pm
What kind of martial arts?

It makes sense. Repeated explosive power efforts.....
Judo and Muay Thai, mostly.

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Re: Been eating 95+% Meat, Fish and Eggs for 8 months

Post by newguy » Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:49 am

Bennyonesix1 wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 7:07 pm
newguy wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:10 pm
When it comes to meat only/keto low carb diets and exercise.

For me -
Low level cardio (think 120-130 beats per minute) doable, but tough. I will get winded and tired on the elliptical. Jogging for any distance is hard. Running for distance is impossible. Maybe it takes longer adaptation times, I don't know.
Lower level cardio - 110 to walking levels, hiking, "manual labor" etc. - you can go forever. Like, you never, ever get tired or winded or hungry. It's crazy.
Lifting - Power to the People style works great. You can get some more volume in per session instead of going daily, but you need long rests between sets. Low reps sets (five) with long breaks.
KBs - the slower lifts, 1 arm long cycle, work really well. Quicker lifts, snatches - treat like swings. Short sets, long rest.
Traditional bodybuilding is out. Circuit training out. HIIT out.....
Walking. Lots and lots of walking. Heavy hands is great here.

That's what I have found.

Well said. Did you notice any better adaptation to heat while on "carnivore" style diet? And how did fat intake effect things for you?

Been researching the fat intake. Found an interesting story from a guy who went to South America in the 1900's. He and his guides were eating entirely pemmican. But he had some qualms about the guide's high-fat version, so he brought along a bunch of low fat pemmican. When the guides ran out of their own and started using the low fat stuff, they quit and went home. They said the heat would kill them w/o the fat. He then tried the high fat and said it worked. After he went home, he kept eating it in the summer and did great, but his MD friends freaked out and thought he was going to die.
You know...I did this last year. I essentially did a meat only diet during most of the week most weeks. This was solely for personal not diet reasons. I was in a real low point and just buying some 80/20 ground beef from target and cooking it with cheese and some onion for taste was easy. I leaned the fuck out. As I always do on "low carb."

The point that I am getting to is that that the last summer was unbearably hot. For most people. But for me, it was hot, but not unbearably. I was doing a shit ton of walking and while I would sweat a disgusting amount, I was never really bothered or tired.

Based on many years of experience, I do not believe you can do a low carb diet without ample fat. You cannot do a low fat low carb diet. You have to have fat and protein.

And there is nothing magical. It is a great way to control calories.

I know this because earlier this year I did a very high carb, low fat diet. It was essentially beans and rice every night. I lost a ton of weight and felt great.

Here is the funny thing....anytime I eat really well, whatever the definition of that....I lose a ton of weight and feel great.......
But I always fall back on the standard high fat, high carb, high protein, high consumption calorie diet, and I supplement with ample amounts of beer and cocktails. I gain weight really well on that diet.

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Re: Been eating 95+% Meat, Fish and Eggs for 8 months

Post by newguy » Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:53 am

SubClaw wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 9:20 pm
newguy wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:41 pm
What kind of martial arts?

It makes sense. Repeated explosive power efforts.....
Judo and Muay Thai, mostly.
I can see both of those being really difficult on a serious low carb keto diet.

Any significant cardio-esque effort is hard. At least for me.

Yesterday I was at the gym and I hadn't had a carb in three days. Literally a carb. I was able to do DB clean and presses for sets of 2,3,5 with rest. I was able to deadlift for a some sets of 5 with rest.

The elliptical at 130 heart rate for 20 minutes almost killed me.

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Re: Been eating 95+% Meat, Fish and Eggs for 8 months

Post by Bennyonesix1 » Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:51 am

"The point that I am getting to is that that the last summer was unbearably hot. For most people. But for me, it was hot, but not unbearably. I was doing a shit ton of walking and while I would sweat a disgusting amount, I was never really bothered or tired."

Yep. That's just how I feel. Gotta be something to it. More so as time goes on...

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Re: Been eating 95+% Meat, Fish and Eggs for 8 months

Post by Bennyonesix1 » Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:56 am

"You know...I did this last year. I essentially did a meat only diet during most of the week most weeks. This was solely for personal not diet reasons. I was in a real low point and just buying some 80/20 ground beef from target and cooking it with cheese and some onion for taste was easy. I leaned the fuck out. As I always do on "low carb.""

Nice how you put the "low carb" in quotes. Because all meat, I am realizing, isn't very ketogenic. The high protein levels and I'd bet lower fat push a lot of people out of ketosis entirely and I bet there's no chance of hitting the "therapeutic" ketogenic levels.

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Re: Been eating 95+% Meat, Fish and Eggs for 8 months

Post by newguy » Sun Aug 11, 2019 3:40 pm

Bennyonesix1 wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:56 am
"You know...I did this last year. I essentially did a meat only diet during most of the week most weeks. This was solely for personal not diet reasons. I was in a real low point and just buying some 80/20 ground beef from target and cooking it with cheese and some onion for taste was easy. I leaned the fuck out. As I always do on "low carb.""

Nice how you put the "low carb" in quotes. Because all meat, I am realizing, isn't very ketogenic. The high protein levels and I'd bet lower fat push a lot of people out of ketosis entirely and I bet there's no chance of hitting the "therapeutic" ketogenic levels.
For the purpose of basic weight loss and body comp I see absolutely no reason to try and enter into ketosis or to even try and measure it.

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Re: Been eating 95+% Meat, Fish and Eggs for 8 months

Post by greenghost » Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:33 pm

Newguy. I can totally relate! Great Job. Keep it up!
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Re: Been eating 95+% Meat, Fish and Eggs for 8 months

Post by Mickey O'neil » Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:35 pm

This is pretty interesting. I may experiment with this.

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Re: Been eating 95+% Meat, Fish and Eggs for 8 months

Post by Really Big Strong Guy » Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:18 pm

Great read. Thanks for posting. Always good to see what others are doing. I'm heavy on eggs in my diet as well. Eat meat at least once daily. Have gotten rid of almost everything that has added sugar and it makes a huge difference. Keep on chugging.
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Re: Been eating 95+% Meat, Fish and Eggs for 8 months

Post by Fat Cat » Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:03 pm

I can't relate to this diet at all. LOL. Where's teh sammiches?
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