This is the Fountain of Youth. Prove me Wrong.

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This is the Fountain of Youth. Prove me Wrong.

Post by Xian » Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:21 pm

Knowing next to nothing about anything, I am curious as to what you guys and girl(s?) think about the following routine. What is lacking? What is superfluous? How would you do it different? What is stupid? The goal is to check as many boxes as possible regarding allround health, well-being, inury prevention, longevity and GPP for a wide variety of daily activities and sports. While keeping the routine –relatively- simple and doable from the comfort of my home. Becoming “great” in any one thing is not on the agenda. Just being bodily unburdened enough to participate in whatever sport or activity I choose to and not suck the most and get injured.

“Routine” might me to big a word since I know nothing about programming. I have just collected a number of exercises over the years from different sources that seem to make me feel good and/or makes theoretically. And these I just do daily for however long I feel like it, everyday. Never to failure.
I am guessing there might be a smarter way to go about it other than doing everything everyday going by feel, in order to make progress. For instance, I don’t know if this program is too confusing for the body to make meaningull adaptations since I am mixing these different exercises (some more strength based, some more endurance etc) in one big go. Or if that is a theoretical no concern with the exercises here. Or if it is impossible to just do the same'ish drills without changing them a lot indefinitely. Or if this is simply the dumbest fucking thing you have ever seen.

Anyway, the routine looks like this and takes less than an hour:
3 spinal JM drills (hip/lowback, thoracic, cervical from Scott Sonnon’s Intu flow)
Pistols and Warrior 3 pose (going back and forth between them)
KB windmills
KB swings and snatches (Just fooling around really for 10 min or so keeping the heart rate up)
Pavel’s Cossack roll (flowing through Cossack squats, some kneeling hip flexor mob and reverse Cossack stretch)
Play circuit: Pull up bar (depending on mood: hanging/pull ups/HLR/skin the cat) + Crawling drills/Hindu pushups + rolls in and out of the plow posture.
Cool down stretching: gymnastic bridging + lying spinal rotation + Pidgeon stretch

Some thoughts on the choice of exercises:
Pistols and warrior 3 seem good for working hip and knee stability and imbalances right to left. Windmills ditto for the upper body while also strengthening the cuff musculature and stretching the chest.
KB ballistics (Swings and snatches) seem to increase general work capacity for me, works explosiveness, seems to be good for the back and blood pressure reduction (member JDIN based his heart-health routine on swings).
Cossack roll, pull up bar stuff, crawling and rolling are good joint mobility, works basic movement patterns and releases tightness all over the body and are a lot of fun for me. I circle through them in a circuit fashion to get some volume in while keeping muscular fatigue as low as possible.
While not always possible, ideally the heart rate is elevated to 120-150 bpm for 30+ min of the program in order to get some central aerobic adaptations and health benefits.
While not geared towards it, hopefully it will maintain some muscles mass into old age.

What would you do different, given these goals? As we age I imagine we all end up with goals along those lines - what exercise(s) do consider essential to practice for functioning well and resisting injury into old age and the rest of immortality?
There is a vast difference between treating effects and adjusting the causes.

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Re: This is the Fountain of Youth. Prove me Wrong.

Post by Grandpa's Spells » Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:23 pm

Sir this is a Wendy's.
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Re: This is the Fountain of Youth. Prove me Wrong.

Post by Fat Cat » Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:38 pm

OK, I'll bite. But first, kudos to you for taking the time to share your thoughts.

I'm not sure there is a perfect fountain of youth, but if there is, I don't think it's a prescriptive routine like the one you lay out. There's nothing that appeals to the youthful mindset there, it's a dutiful progression, but that's the opposite of what kids like, or are like. Kids want things that are daring, or sexy, or in some way wild, and that's kind of the opposite of what you're doing here. Kids want sweet fun, not bitter medicine.

That said, there's nothing wrong with the exercises you have selected. If anything, it's maybe a little light on sustained cardiovascular loading, but if you really think you are going to get to "120-150 bpm for 30+ min" it's probably just fine. But I ask you: why not just go surfing? Or skating? Or run some trail through the forest? Any one of those is going to provide a raft of benefits--skill development, time outdoors, fun (!)--that I don't see your program managing. At least not for long. They certainly will keep you feeling more youthful, which is as close to a fountain of youth as I'm aware of.

If this seems overly critical, don't take it that way please. I LIKE your goal, I'm just not sure about this approach. Honestly, doing a conventional bodybuilding routine to build some strength and muscle and then going to the beach to flex, check out the girls, and work on my tan would make me feel a lot more youthful than lying spinal rotations and KB windmills.
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Re: This is the Fountain of Youth. Prove me Wrong.

Post by SubClaw » Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:17 pm

Overall, I like the general direction you are going. The specifics of your particular approach not so much.

It's not that there is anything wrong with it (I really, really, really like your "just show up, do some stuff for a while and stop when you feel like it" attitude) and I find myself gravitating towards that same kind of goal-less mindset. Maybe it's the exercise selection (nothing wrong with that either, just not my cup of tea), I don't know...

My not so original recipe for agelessness is OS+ES/SA+MAF+BJJ.

- OS: Original Strength, Yoga, Sonnon's Stuff, GMB stuff... Pretty much anything that I can do everyday, no matter what, that keeps me mobile and flexible.

- ES/SA: Easy Strength/Strength Aerobics. High frequency, high sets, moderate load, low rep exercises, done for 20-30 minutes without ever coming close to struggling. Lazy 50/20 if you like.

- MAF: Maffetone (or Niko Niko) running. Slow and steady wins the race.

- BJJ: Brazilian JiuJitsu or any other martial art.

All the above done Dan John's Park Bench style.

By the way, Xian, check this guy's YT channel. I'm sure you'll love it:

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Re: This is the Fountain of Youth. Prove me Wrong.

Post by Bennyonesix1 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:08 pm

For my part, I think you could get over 80% of the mobility and flexibility of your routine with Lyon's Advanced Mat Pilates at 3x a werk for 35 min each time. 110% with his Reformer on the Mat routine added in once or twice but that's about an hour. And at almost no risk of injury esp the Advanced Mat.

Hand and wrist strength is under appreciated in older trainers.

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Re: This is the Fountain of Youth. Prove me Wrong.

Post by Xian » Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:24 pm

Fountain of youth was tongue in cheek way of expressing bodily wellbeing, not to point towards a child or youth like mentality.

Your point regarding the lack of cardiovascular loading for long enough is spot on. The reason for trying to get the cardiovascular health benefits through these other drills is for efficiency. If you can work on a useful physical attribute (an imbalance, lack of mobility, strength etc) while getting cardiovascular benefits, it is more time efficient to do so rather than working it in a separate cardio session.
And the whole point for me is to cover all the relevant bases as efficiently as possible, so that there is more time for fun for the hell of it.
I have no issue with prioritising activities you actually find fun and meaningful. But I think that just bodybuilding, surfing or whatever enjoyable activity doesn’t necessarily cover all relevant bases of physical ability optimally re health, longevity, limitations, imbalances arising from said activity, etc. although activities like that should be part of an overall plan to be healthy and feel good.

The idea with a/the specific routine with specific exercises is not to be a slave to some arbitrary system, but to systematize and make efficient what you need to do in order to get the benefits you seek in the easiest and least time demanding way possible. Windmills and spinal rotation might not make you feel sexy, but if it keeps you in your chosen game longer while remaining or getting free of pain, it seems a worthwhile inclusion.

Please be as critical as you feel is waranted. I don't want to do a stupid thing longer than neccesary ](*,)

Thanks for the youtube link. It looks right up my alley :). If you haven’t checked out Andreo Spina’s youtube you should do that!

I agree with your approach and I try to get around the same bases as you do, You need a mix of mobility, strength and cardiovascular endurance, and mobility seems to be the thing most people neglect the most and regret not prioritizing IME. That is one of the reasons for my sissy mobility stuff bias. I just try to cram enough strength and cardiovascular stuff into the mobility stuff. Hopefully being more time efficient than doing separate strength and cardio routines. But whether that is possible and works, and how you mix and match drills optimally to have it all, is my biggest headache.

Lyon's Advanced Mat Pilates is something I like and I include a lot of core drills from there I think. Bridging, the one legged stuff, rolling etc. On the other hand the pilates stuff at least lack pulling movements and some rotator cuff prehab/one arm with a weight overhead stuff to be sufficient in the long run IMO.
Hand and wrist strength is something I feel kettlebells have helped med a lot with.
There is a vast difference between treating effects and adjusting the causes.

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Re: This is the Fountain of Youth. Prove me Wrong.

Post by Xian » Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:29 pm

Just a copy-paste from my log to further discussion/critique and illustrate where I am coming from:

The overall goal : Feel good mentally and physically. Be bodily unburdened enough to do whatever I want (or need) whenever I want (or need) to.
1. This means being able to do any activities of daily living (ADL's), job demands (JD's) or sports and recreational activities (SRA's) i might choose to do try. Now and when I'm old.
2. Promote superior resistance to wear and tear and common injuries. I want to be able to move well with no pain.
3. Reaching these goals in the simplest way possible, investing the least amount of time even if it means the training program isn't "optimal" in all ways.
- Maximum efficiency with minmum effort. 80% benefits from 20% effort rule.
- Don't do as much as possible; do what I need/can't do without.

The program should therefore be very general in its focus to promote a high level of potential ability in as broad a spectrum as possible, and not single out any single physical fitness attribute (strength, cardiovascular, flexibility etc), but develop proficiency in each one so far as it still makes sense with regards to my goals and doesn't negatively affect the development of other attributes. First some thoughts on strength and endurance:

Muscular system (strength/endurance): How much strength is necessary? is being able to lift several hundred pounds necessary? Probably not. And how much time do I actually want to spend getting stronger? The time might be better spent working on other attributes after a certain general base of strength has been build (point of diminishing returns).

After the base has been laid, rather than try to become even stronger, focusing on endurance with that strength load might be more worth my while since such training:
- improves vascularization of muscles (so they tire less and recover faster)
- improve vascularization of tendons (so they are less prone to inflammation and rupture--tendons most often rip in areas of poor blood supply).
- Increases the structural strength of muscles and connective tissue so they are less likely to be excessively damaged by strenuous exercises; DOMS, a muscle strain, even a complete muscle rupture. Structural strength is determined by the strength and cross-sectional area of the slow-twitch muscle fibers (they have greater structural strength than fast-twitch fibers) and by the strength of the connective tissue within the muscle. Endurance training benefits the slow twitch fibers - but also the the connective tissue strength within the muscle, probably through the anabolic action of hormones that are delivered to the muscle with the increased blood flow (says Tom Kurz)
- Could double as joint mobility if done through a complete ROM (Think Amosov-like routine)

Every example of the negative effects of aerobic exercises or cardio are related to people who are doing it excessively (marathons, etc.) or exclusively. There are many benefits of having a well-developed cardiovascular system and everyone can benefit from a moderate amount:

- Increases ability to do more work in an aerobic manner, sparing the limited anaerobic reserves = increased work capacity. By raising our ability to do work, all other attributes and characteristics will be more attainable, because you can handle a larger volume and intensity of exercises without exhausting the body's resources.
- Increases recovery after after endurance and anaerobic strength/speed efforts. It essentially slows down the fatigue inducing effects and restocks the substrates they need to work in the first place faster. That means training with more intensity and more often.

It's therefore paramount in any generalist, all-around preparation program (hint hint) to lay a cardiovascular/aerob base.
your ability to work aerobically is dependent on both central and peripheral adaptions (contents of both categories simplified very much):

Central adaptions (your ability to supply/transport oxygen), Aerobe fitness.
- is primarily dependent upon how much blood you can pump in a single heartbeat (stroke volume) which is primarily dependent upon the volume of the left ventricular cavity.
This is best increased by keeping the heart rate in the 120-150 zone (Not panting, hands on knees, push the envelope type) for 20 min. or more. done at least twice a week. Can be in the form of running, circuit training etc. doesn't matter as long as the heart rate gets up.

Peripheral adaptions (ability to utilize oxygen in the muscles), Aerobe endurance.
- Increased capillary density. The greater your capillary network you have, the more blood will flow an be available to the muscles.
- Mitochondria activity (number and ability)

Only the muscles being worked in a movement improve their endurance capacities and there is a high degree of movement pattern specificity in their improvement. Running won't increase upperbody endurance etc. These peripheral adaptions are also what's responsible for the health benefits of cardiovascular exercise (increased insulin sensitivity, improvement in LDL/HDL ratio, increased fat oxidation, decreased blood pressure). The more overall muscle tissue involved, the greater the overall health benefits. So heavyhands > running etc.

With the generalist and health oriented goals in mind, I should attempt to increase whole-body endurance while getting my heart rate up for at least 20 min.
I could add a separate cardio session, but the most effective/least time consuming way (my previous post and overall goals in mind) would be to get my heart rate up when doing other exercises (making sure the whole body is exercised) in a continuous or circuit fashion for 20 min or more.
There is a vast difference between treating effects and adjusting the causes.

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Re: This is the Fountain of Youth. Prove me Wrong.

Post by Wild Bill » Mon Aug 26, 2019 5:11 pm

"What would you do different"
you should try yakutian pegtop :)
seriously, considering your list I am sure you'll like it.

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Re: This is the Fountain of Youth. Prove me Wrong.

Post by syaigh » Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:43 pm

The fountain of youth is a lifelong experiment in what keeps you on the positive side of recovery, moving pain free, and continuing to get better at things as you get older. It starts with keeping a training journal and paying attention to your results, both long term and short term. And periodically checking your ego and getting someone else's eyes on your body, your training, and your diet. So, kudos for sharing your thoughts, the thing to do is put it into practice and see how it works for you. You can only work so much out in your mind and its not a problem to solve so much as its a course you will plot as you are traveling.
Miss Piggy wrote:Never eat more than you can lift.

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Re: This is the Fountain of Youth. Prove me Wrong.

Post by Bram » Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:46 pm

First up, I'm not even doing what I'm suggesting, so there is that.

Well Rounded Fitness = balanced resistance training + cardiovascular exercise + mobility + dynamic movements + something fun

On a good week, I do all the above, but I've barely done ANY cardio in 2019. I'm good about the rest, for the most part. But my life is heavily weighted towards the fun side. Last week for example, I did five fun things and one day in the gym.

For exercise selection that you're not including, I like a hamstring flexion movement, say glute-ham raises for example. And maybe a rectus ab exercise as well.
"If we just work hard without complaining, we can become one with Heaven and Earth." - Zen proverb

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Re: This is the Fountain of Youth. Prove me Wrong.

Post by Wild Bill » Wed Oct 16, 2019 5:20 pm

I now think that learning new tricks is the thing.

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