Downsizing

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Grandpa's Spells
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Re: Downsizing

Post by Grandpa's Spells » Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:59 am

Fat Cat wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 10:07 pm
Grandpa's Spells wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 9:46 pm
Why doesn't anybody swim? I don't know if this is a regional thing or not but here even the cheap gyms over a given size have a 25 yd pool.
What do you do these days?
I moved to the burbs a couple months ago and the new gym is pretty pimp. I've been doing some KB work with 24 & 70 kg, occasionally Peloton, and doing technical swim practice. I had an equipment failure in the kayak late summer and have concluded that anybody who paddles alone better be prepared to swim home, but I actually enjoy the practice a lot. At about 8 I got involved in a feeder program for a very competitive swim team and absolutely fucking hated it, which put me off swimming a long time. The swimming is super low impact, regulating temperature burns extra calories, there's the lifesaving aspect, it seems like an underrated activity to me.
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SubClaw
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Re: Downsizing

Post by SubClaw » Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:54 am

Grandpa's Spells wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 9:46 pm
Why doesn't anybody swim? I don't know if this is a regional thing or not but here even the cheap gyms over a given size have a 25 yd pool.
Because I hate it. I would love to like it, but I just can't.

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Re: Downsizing

Post by Sangoma » Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:44 am

I must admit, my obsessive personality is not very conducive of doing things in moderation. My current obsession is BJJ, and I am definitely hitting the mat more often than I should. Given the fact that lots of youngsters (the majority in any BJJ school) don't know how to take things easy my body gets beaten up. But it tickles my ego when I occasionally sweep or strangle some stronger and bigger 25 year old. And because my BJJ sucks and I use whatever strength does exist in my body - I get the side effect of growing a bit of muscle.
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Re: Downsizing

Post by Grandpa's Spells » Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:12 pm

SubClaw wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:54 am
Grandpa's Spells wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 9:46 pm
Why doesn't anybody swim? I don't know if this is a regional thing or not but here even the cheap gyms over a given size have a 25 yd pool.
Because I hate it. I would love to like it, but I just can't.
I have personally found Total Immersion swimming to be enjoyable. Practicing technique is more enjoyable than just swimming laps for x minutes. YMMV but the change was good for me.
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Re: Downsizing

Post by SubClaw » Wed Oct 16, 2019 5:36 pm

Sua Sponte wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 9:38 pm
SubClaw wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:32 am
How about a low-rep, low-fatigue, low-volume barbell program? All that wiry-strength Pavelisms...

Would that work to maintain a decent strength base while downsizing?
At 58, for me, the combination of a minimalist PttP/GtG/easy strength abbreviated routine coupled to Maffetone-esque hill hiking and running has been magical. Resistance stuff is just some form of deadlift, some form of press (mil or, more often, dips) and chins (but trying curls). Leaned out, kept strength, retained decent muscle mass, greatly increased endurance and, most importantly, health and my sense of well being. Best of all, the enjoyment that now comes with it, replacing the dread of near death experience training.
Do you, by any chance, keep a public training log anywhere?

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Fat Cat
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Re: Downsizing

Post by Fat Cat » Wed Oct 16, 2019 5:41 pm

Grandpa's Spells wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:59 am
Fat Cat wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 10:07 pm
Grandpa's Spells wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 9:46 pm
Why doesn't anybody swim? I don't know if this is a regional thing or not but here even the cheap gyms over a given size have a 25 yd pool.
What do you do these days?
I moved to the burbs a couple months ago and the new gym is pretty pimp. I've been doing some KB work with 24 & 70 kg, occasionally Peloton, and doing technical swim practice. I had an equipment failure in the kayak late summer and have concluded that anybody who paddles alone better be prepared to swim home, but I actually enjoy the practice a lot. At about 8 I got involved in a feeder program for a very competitive swim team and absolutely fucking hated it, which put me off swimming a long time. The swimming is super low impact, regulating temperature burns extra calories, there's the lifesaving aspect, it seems like an underrated activity to me.
Swimming is an awesome activity and surely one you should do if you like kayaking. It's definitely one of the most complete forms of exercise.
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Re: Downsizing

Post by Sua Sponte » Wed Oct 16, 2019 5:58 pm

No, sir, I do not. But maybe I can give you some details that could prove helpful.

My primary goal is around the endurance work. The hill hiking specifically. The goal here is to be able to cover ever more ground, day on day, without suffering a level of accumulated fatigue that keeps me from completing or enjoying. Obviously that's a moving target and the distance and number of days I can cover improve with conditioning. The lifting and the running support that goal. For the hiking and running I use Maffetone in training and generally only push past Maffetone heart rate limits when I'm out on the adventure hikes.

Lifting for deadlift is straight up PttP or easy strength or what ever you want. BUT, this is not a never ending march to greater weight. I try to maintain 2x body weight as I find a) more doesn't help me with my primary goal and b) getting much past 2.25x body weight requires me to go to more advanced methods. For chins and dips I grease the groove 5x per week, with body weight 3 sets of 5-7 body weight for chins and 3 sets of 8-10 dips. Real easy stuff. Then once per week or twice ever two weeks I'll add a 45 lb plates to the chins and dips and run ladders. I can do more but like the deadlift, more doesn't help my primary goal.

I avoid like the plague anything that can be considered high intensity. This means bodybuilding, real powerlifting, HIIT, EMOM kettlebells, etc. Primary reason is any such effort spikes my appetite hard and I cannot control it. Second, I get sore and run down which interferes with my main objective again. Over training feedback for me is morning resting heart rate and quality of sleep.

I travel quite a bit for work, especially overseas, so this is a somewhat up and down effort. Sometimes I can get in quality work on the road, sometimes not.

No clue if this helps or if it's what you're looking for.

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Re: Downsizing

Post by SubClaw » Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:24 pm

Sua Sponte wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 5:58 pm
No, sir, I do not. But maybe I can give you some details that could prove helpful.

My primary goal is around the endurance work. The hill hiking specifically. The goal here is to be able to cover ever more ground, day on day, without suffering a level of accumulated fatigue that keeps me from completing or enjoying. Obviously that's a moving target and the distance and number of days I can cover improve with conditioning. The lifting and the running support that goal. For the hiking and running I use Maffetone in training and generally only push past Maffetone heart rate limits when I'm out on the adventure hikes.

Lifting for deadlift is straight up PttP or easy strength or what ever you want. BUT, this is not a never ending march to greater weight. I try to maintain 2x body weight as I find a) more doesn't help me with my primary goal and b) getting much past 2.25x body weight requires me to go to more advanced methods. For chins and dips I grease the groove 5x per week, with body weight 3 sets of 5-7 body weight for chins and 3 sets of 8-10 dips. Real easy stuff. Then once per week or twice ever two weeks I'll add a 45 lb plates to the chins and dips and run ladders. I can do more but like the deadlift, more doesn't help my primary goal.

I avoid like the plague anything that can be considered high intensity. This means bodybuilding, real powerlifting, HIIT, EMOM kettlebells, etc. Primary reason is any such effort spikes my appetite hard and I cannot control it. Second, I get sore and run down which interferes with my main objective again. Over training feedback for me is morning resting heart rate and quality of sleep.

I travel quite a bit for work, especially overseas, so this is a somewhat up and down effort. Sometimes I can get in quality work on the road, sometimes not.

No clue if this helps or if it's what you're looking for.
That was EXACTLY what I was looking for. Thank you!

My own training is pretty much as described above (minus the high frequency): assuming a training week of ten to twelve days, I usually do three days of easy lifting (a lower body lift, an upper body push and an upper body pull: three sets of three reps using between 60% and 80% of my estimated 1RM), another three days of Maffetone running (I just discovered Niko-Niko running, which is an awesome, easier variation of MAF) and three days more of martial arts. Rest days are taken as needed.

I try to avoid the metcon effect like the plague. Everything is done park-bench style (in Dan John's lingo).

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Re: Downsizing

Post by Sua Sponte » Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:00 pm

That captures the spirit of what I'm doing. I'm a creature of habit so I like the daily grease the groove chin/pull-ups and dips. I have a chin-up bar in my bathroom doorway. I do 5-7 on the way in, 5-7 on the way out and then 5-7 before I head down stairs. Once I'm downstairs, a quick 5 deadlifts, a cup of coffee, and another 5 before heading out the door. At the office, I take a pair of closely situated tables and the dips are done before the morning's first meeting or telecon. I don't workout per se. It just fits seamlessly into my daily routine.

Thanks for the intro to Niko-Niko. It's to Maffetone what even easier strength is to easy strength. I like it.

Worth correcting one thing I wrote. When I head out for longer hikes every so often, with higher, steeper elevation gain, I slip into moderate or high intensity for periods. It's easy to control appetite because I can only eat what I carried. The intermittent, multi-hour episodes fit well into the otherwise easy does it approach.

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