Cluster Sets

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newguy
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Re: Cluster Sets

Post by newguy » Mon Mar 09, 2020 3:40 pm

SubClaw wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 2:04 pm
newguy wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:51 am
The training protocols/techniques you mention all suck. No one uses them. Not even the people who wrote them.....
I do train Easy Strength style all the time.

Granted, my lifts are for shit, but still...
Exactly.....and please don't take what I'm saying as a knock or an insult. But is lifting your main thing? Are you actively trying to put plates on the bar, or change body composition?

Or to take it a different way....if you suddenly decided that you wanted to push more weight, add muscle, etc. etc. would easy strength be the program to get you there?

Probably not.

At best it is a program for people who are doing other things and looking to maintain some strength while doing so.

Which is NOT 90% of the people who train.

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Re: Cluster Sets

Post by Fat Cat » Mon Mar 09, 2020 6:34 pm

Sangoma wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 11:57 pm
Vocative case requires the use of a coma. So it should be "whatever, hardgainer...." Not that your reply added anything to the discussion, but at least don't butcher an elegant language.
Quotes need a comma before the quotation mark, as in:

So it should be, "whatever, hardgainer...."

The lesson here is don't be a grammarian cryass. Especially when you're ESL. The truth, as per usual, is somewhere between your two positions.

Most people take it too easy and should, over time, build up their work capacity. This is particularly true for people who aren't training for some other sport or demanding physical activity.

OTOH, some people are just wannabe hardass idiots with more enthusiasm than sense, and they should not be encouraged to measure successful training by barf and rhabdo.

Both can benefit from some type of programming, the former so that they actually cultivate the ability to push their boundaries, the latter so that they don't push their boundaries too far or too often.
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Re: Cluster Sets

Post by SubClaw » Mon Mar 09, 2020 6:38 pm

newguy wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 3:40 pm
Exactly.....and please don't take what I'm saying as a knock or an insult. But is lifting your main thing? Are you actively trying to put plates on the bar, or change body composition?
No, I'm a martial artist first, a trail runner a distant second and lifting is just a supplementary activity.
Or to take it a different way....if you suddenly decided that you wanted to push more weight, add muscle, etc. etc. would easy strength be the program to get you there?
If I really wanted to achieve some meaningful lifting goals and I was in a hurry (important distinction here), I would definitely choose another program.

But lately I've chosen a very laid-back approach to almost everything, even my main activities. I'm basically lazy and my goals are modest.

I lift Easy Strength style. I run following a Maffetone template. And I try to practice BJJ putting technique above everything else, trying to use the least amount of force I can (even if that means I get my ass handed to me on a regular basis).

I'm basically the opposite of the common trainee.
Probably not.

At best it is a program for people who are doing other things and looking to maintain some strength while doing so.

Which is NOT 90% of the people who train.
Agreed.

I'm not trying to be contrarian, it's just Easy Strength/Maffetone approaches are ideal for me.
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Re: Cluster Sets

Post by Sangoma » Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:25 pm

Fat Cat wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 6:34 pm
Quotes need a comma before the quotation mark, as in:

So it should be, "whatever, hardgainer...."

The lesson here is don't be a grammarian cryass. Especially when you're ESL.
Thanks for the lesson. My point to newly was: if you are trying to offend someone do it in a grammatically correct way.
The truth, as per usual, is somewhere between your two positions.
I don't have two position. I think the truth is contextual. If someone wants to build 3x bodyweight deadlift Easy Strength and 40-day workout is not the best template. Similarly, the method on the video is aimed at increasing the number and quality of mitochondria in the glycolytic muscle fibers, which is beneficial for wrestlers.

My training - on a fractional level - is similar to yours. Grappling without strength (I am reasonably strong, but run out of gas if I use it) and trying to get stronger outside of BJJ school by doing swings and presses. My body cannot handle high intensity programs aimed at building absolute strength on top of BJJ three to four times a week.

The question is, what are mainstream fitness amateurs trying to achieve? Are they better off following muscle building templates? (Lots of which, by the way, have ample rest intervals). Most people I ask say "I want to get fit". Which probably includes some strength, some endurance and some fat loss. SO are they closer to the bodybuilders and weightlifters trying to build muscle or are they closer to sports professionals trying to get GPP training outside of their main activity? I would say for the amateurs full time jobs and families are their main activities, and it doesn't make sense to get killed in the gym every time they train.

In any case, polarised training seems to have taken over anything else over the last couple of decades. 80% easy, 20% hard. One hard session out of five, seems reasonable to me.
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Re: Cluster Sets

Post by Fat Cat » Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:27 pm

You utter goddamn numpty, the two positions are yours and newguy's. Thesis > Antithesis > Synthesis. I cannot continue like this. Do you even fucking Hegel?

Moving on. The truth is not contextual, so you can take that postmodern mindset and kick rocks. The truth is BIOLOGICAL. The biological truth is that the organism, at any point in time, has a limited capacity to adapt to training stimuli. Further, this capacity to adapt can be increased--to a point--over time, through correct training principles that pace the increase. That's the non-relative truth for all humans everywhere. Given that truth:

- Athletes who are devoted to improving performance in a specific skillset should devote most of the efforts toward that end, and allow some remaining training time and energy to developing strength in basic movement patterns for injury prevention, longevity, and potential sport-specific performance increases. For athletes, even if training does improve total work capacity, that additional capacity should be devoted to development and/or exhibition of higher sport performance capability.

- Regular people, who really just care about looking good when they take their clothes off, attracting the opposite sex, and having fun--should train in a way that maximizes that potential. This is done with higher volumes of training than would be advisable for an athlete preoccupied with another sport. If they do this in a measured way, not going HAM over night, they can increase their work capacity, burn more calories, develop larger muscles, etc. all without having to kill themselves in the gym every time they train.
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Re: Cluster Sets

Post by Sangoma » Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:01 pm

Ok, Ok, calm down!

It's too much to argue about the first two paragraphs. Fuck Hegel, go Nagarjuna!
If they do this in a measured way, not going HAM over night, they can increase their work capacity, burn more calories, develop larger muscles, etc. all without having to kill themselves in the gym every time they train.
Overall I agree with your summary, but...

The "not kill themselves in the gym every time they train" is not black and white. It changes with age, the level of fitness and many other factors. What's more optimal, 5 sets of 5 with 70% 1RM or lighter lifts done with maximal power repeated over time? Both don't kill you, yet they are different. Another example, what's better, 3 sets of max pull-ups (say they add to 30 total) or 15 sets of 2 reps done with long rest intervals? It depends on where in the training process you are. Beginners will benefit from the former, while those who hit a plateau will probably benefit more from the latter. That's what I mean by the truth being contextual.

Off topic and not directly related to the current discussion, couple of decades ago Tim Noakes ruffled lots of feathers when he came up with his Central Governor model of fatigue. Our knowledge of the mechanisms of fatigue is very limited, and rudimentary when it comes to the role of the nervous system in adaptation.
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Re: Cluster Sets

Post by Fat Cat » Tue Mar 10, 2020 12:56 am

Sangoma wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:01 pm
Fuck Hegel, go Nagarjuna!
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Re: Cluster Sets

Post by Sangoma » Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:40 am

I am going to invite Steve Friezes to moderate this disrespectful forum. I wonder how many posts will see the light of day if that wanker gets hold of the delete button here. :finga:
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