Nice read on training for surfing (or whatever)

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Bram
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Nice read on training for surfing (or whatever)

Post by Bram » Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:24 pm

https://www.surfline.com/surf-news/surf ... rown/67149

The way Tim Brown approaches working with an athlete (here's a link to his bio if you're wondering):

http://news.meyerdc.com/editorial-team/brown-dr-tim/

I think this might be pay-walled, so in quick summary:

5 Step Process: Alignment, Breath, Mobility, Stability, Strength

Alignment - static and dynamic posture. Address areas of compensation.

Breath - get them breathing diagphramatically. If their shoulders rise when they breathe, they are in fight or flight mode.

Mobility - three key areas: the front of the ankle (dorsiflexion), the hips/pelvis, and the middle back (thoracic spine and ribcage)

Stability - a joint with a torn ligament with a strong dynamic restraint system around it is much less likely to be injured or re-injured than a perfectly intact joint with a weak dynamic restraint system

Strength- only after the above are in place. He says a 3 month program on core and posture and training is normal for new people before adding load.

----

Although this may not be ground-breaking, it's a fairly simple approach to look at yourself or people you work with. Is their/your posture shitty? Well, address that before you have them do overhead press, etc.

And a podcast with him for further info (have not listened to it yet):

https://findingmastery.net/tim-brown/
"If we just work hard without complaining, we can become one with Heaven and Earth." - Zen proverb

motherjuggs&speed
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Re: Nice read on training for surfing (or whatever)

Post by motherjuggs&speed » Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:49 pm

I disagree about mobility before strength unless we're talking about a serious deficit in mobility. My opinion is that a lot of mobility issues are actually the body "knowing" it's not able to handle certain things (partly due to a lack of strength) and is thus restricting movement. Plus if you get people to move more freely first, that sounds good but I think it will increase injury risk since they are now moving within a greater ROM of the joints and also a bigger envelope of movement which they don't have the dynamic strength, proprioception, and coordination to handle. My thought is that mobility and strength should be brought up together.

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Re: Nice read on training for surfing (or whatever)

Post by motherjuggs&speed » Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:54 pm

A side note on that: I think mobility and endurance are so elevated in status vs. strength in the popular mind because --

Weak people hate strength, and

The media in general hates strong people. How many hatchet jobs have we all read on bodybuilders, powerlifters, etc.? Basically everything I've even seen in the popular media has this slant, so people consciously or otherwise downplay it.

Hell, even the spellcheck doesn't like the word powerlifters.

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Bram
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Re: Nice read on training for surfing (or whatever)

Post by Bram » Sat Apr 11, 2020 6:08 pm

motherjuggs&speed wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:49 pm
I disagree about mobility before strength unless we're talking about a serious deficit in mobility. My opinion is that a lot of mobility issues are actually the body "knowing" it's not able to handle certain things (partly due to a lack of strength) and is thus restricting movement. Plus if you get people to move more freely first, that sounds good but I think it will increase injury risk since they are now moving within a greater ROM of the joints and also a bigger envelope of movement which they don't have the dynamic strength, proprioception, and coordination to handle. My thought is that mobility and strength should be brought up together.
If you look at that checklist, he suggests stability after mobility. Which would correct for the issue you're suggesting.
"If we just work hard without complaining, we can become one with Heaven and Earth." - Zen proverb

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Re: Nice read on training for surfing (or whatever)

Post by Bram » Sat Apr 11, 2020 6:17 pm

motherjuggs&speed wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:54 pm
A side note on that: I think mobility and endurance are so elevated in status vs. strength in the popular mind because --

Weak people hate strength, and

The media in general hates strong people. How many hatchet jobs have we all read on bodybuilders, powerlifters, etc.? Basically everything I've even seen in the popular media has this slant, so people consciously or otherwise downplay it.

Hell, even the spellcheck doesn't like the word powerlifters.
Mobility
Endurance
Strength
Stability
Athleticism

All require a different approach. All have benefits, which are increased if done in conjunction with the others. And all have drawbacks if done in exclusion.
"If we just work hard without complaining, we can become one with Heaven and Earth." - Zen proverb

motherjuggs&speed
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Re: Nice read on training for surfing (or whatever)

Post by motherjuggs&speed » Sat Apr 11, 2020 6:22 pm

In reading that article he says that stability and strength are two different things. i don't buy that. Plus, I don't think stability, as measured by a person's ability to balance on one foot on an uneven surface, will improve a person's real word dynamic balance.

He does say that most of the people he works with are plenty strong so that explains that part of his list but still it seems off that he wants them to do three months of his stuff.

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Re: Nice read on training for surfing (or whatever)

Post by motherjuggs&speed » Sat Apr 11, 2020 6:30 pm

From the article

"There’s also gas that we store in our sinuses called nitrogen oxide." I hope he knows that it's nitric oxide:

https://thorax.bmj.com/content/54/10/947

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Re: Nice read on training for surfing (or whatever)

Post by Bram » Sat Apr 11, 2020 6:32 pm

motherjuggs&speed wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 6:22 pm
In reading that article he says that stability and strength are two different things. i don't buy that. Plus, I don't think stability, as measured by a person's ability to balance on one foot on an uneven surface, will improve a person's real word dynamic balance.

He does say that most of the people he works with are plenty strong so that explains that part of his list but still it seems off that he wants them to do three months of his stuff.
Glad it's not pay-walled and you're looking into it.

The balancing on unstable surfaces is a weird one. I don't do any of it, and my surfing balance is fine. But the PT at my gym, who I respect immensely, works with a shit ton of pro-athletes and will have them do some stuff on AirEx pads for ankle rehab. Does it help? Would the benefit be the same without the pad? I dunno.

I can dig the argument that stability and strength can be semantical differences. You can have strength in your stabilizers, and strength in your prime movers.

But if you have a weak VMO for example, you might have knee pain. I say that as someone who has knee pain when I don't do VMO exercises.
"If we just work hard without complaining, we can become one with Heaven and Earth." - Zen proverb

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Bram
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Re: Nice read on training for surfing (or whatever)

Post by Bram » Sat Apr 11, 2020 6:34 pm

motherjuggs&speed wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 6:30 pm
From the article

"There’s also gas that we store in our sinuses called nitrogen oxide." I hope he knows that it's nitric oxide:

https://thorax.bmj.com/content/54/10/947
Ahh did not know that, thanks for the link!
"If we just work hard without complaining, we can become one with Heaven and Earth." - Zen proverb

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Re: Nice read on training for surfing (or whatever)

Post by nafod » Sat Apr 11, 2020 10:02 pm

motherjuggs&speed wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:49 pm
I disagree about mobility before strength unless we're talking about a serious deficit in mobility. My opinion is that a lot of mobility issues are actually the body "knowing" it's not able to handle certain things (partly due to a lack of strength) and is thus restricting movement.
The thing about these water sports is they require certain mobility (hopping up on the board, paddling out) so you end up working around them if you don’t have it. Then, in wiping out you’ll be subjected to forces that will work your range of motion, and if it is limited, you will ballistically hit those limits.

For the stability piece, the difference between when I first got on a paddleboard and now is huge. It was the proverbial soreness in muscles I didn’t know I had when I first started, with it associated with the effort to be stable on this highly unstable platform. Now I can paddle for hours.

Interesting article.
Don’t believe everything you think.

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Re: Nice read on training for surfing (or whatever)

Post by Cayenne » Sun Apr 12, 2020 9:37 pm

motherjuggs&speed wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:54 pm
A side note on that: I think mobility and endurance are so elevated in status vs. strength in the popular mind because --

Weak people hate strength, and

The media in general hates strong people. How many hatchet jobs have we all read on bodybuilders, powerlifters, etc.? Basically everything I've even seen in the popular media has this slant, so people consciously or otherwise downplay it.

Hell, even the spellcheck doesn't like the word powerlifters.
The New York Times has a "Health" section, with a sub-section called "Well" and some ongoing columns (I forget the names,) that tend to report things like, "A study of 3 mice suggests that sleep may be beneficial. Whether this applies to humans, the study's author noted, "calls for further research."

This is subjective, but it seems like 80%, at least, of the exercise articles are on some aspect of running. (In fact, I think there is one recurring feature exclusively devoted to running.) As if running=athleticism+fitness. Articles about weight training, martial arts, or other aspects of physical culture, are rare.

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