BJJ Purple Belt Question

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newguy
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BJJ Purple Belt Question

Post by newguy » Sat May 02, 2020 5:30 pm

I was reading a thread on quora about BJJ purple belts.

The gist is that being a blue belt means you should be able to beat a larger, untrained person. So a football player walks into a school, the blue belts should be able to beat him regardless their size. They might struggle, but they would beat him.

A purple belt should have no problem with him. It would just be a matter of deciding when to submit. No struggle, no issue. The skill level difference between a blue and purple belt is very wide and to that level.

Someone jumped in and said that things happen and a large, strong white belt could get lucky and submit a purple belt. This is when things got rocky with some people saying that this would not be possible and others saying that a large, strong, white belt can certainly get lucky. Surprising, but it can happen.

Just curious - those of you with BJJ experience, what are your experiences/thoughts with this?

Is the definition of a blue belt correct? What about a white belt submitting a purple belt? Can you get a "lucky punch" like that?

I've not experience in BJJ so I've got no framework for this.

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Re: BJJ Purple Belt Question

Post by Bram » Sat May 02, 2020 6:04 pm

You occasionally have white belts submitting black belts.

If someone drills the hell out of a technique, has physical advantages like flexibility, strength, size, speed, etc., has previous experience in grappling like being a high-level wrestler...or all of the above, you end up with variations in ability.

Belt levels signify dedication, technical skill, competitive success, or whatever combination the teacher deems is necessary.

The false belief that Belt X beats Scenario Y is dangerous.

My 2 cents as a 5 year blue belt who hasn't trained in a decade :)
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Re: BJJ Purple Belt Question

Post by newguy » Sat May 02, 2020 7:18 pm

Thanks for the info!

Is the original premise - a blue belt is a level of skill that signifies you can beat a larger, stronger, untrained opponent accurate? Is that a consensus thing?

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Re: BJJ Purple Belt Question

Post by Bram » Sat May 02, 2020 8:17 pm

I will defer to the other BJJ people on this forum for that one.
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Re: BJJ Purple Belt Question

Post by Bram » Sat May 02, 2020 10:11 pm

Oh, one thing of note:

Out of all the BJJ practitioners I know, this goes up to Black Belt World Champs, nearly everyone ended an actual fight with a rear naked choke.

It's a great technique that requires drilling to get the finer points and notice the opportunities, but by the time you're a blue belt you should have a decent time of finishing it, and setting it up.

For example, my old teacher slapped some dude talking shit, the moment he turned his head slightly from the slap he sunk the choke on him.
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Re: BJJ Purple Belt Question

Post by Fat Cat » Mon May 04, 2020 5:44 pm

newguy wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 7:18 pm
Thanks for the info!

Is the original premise - a blue belt is a level of skill that signifies you can beat a larger, stronger, untrained opponent accurate? Is that a consensus thing?
That might have been the case in the old days, when Gracie Jiu-Jitsu was about fighting, but it is absolutely not the case with modern BJJ that is totally divorced from the reality of a fight. So no.
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Re: BJJ Purple Belt Question

Post by newguy » Mon May 04, 2020 7:42 pm

Fat Cat wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 5:44 pm
newguy wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 7:18 pm
Thanks for the info!

Is the original premise - a blue belt is a level of skill that signifies you can beat a larger, stronger, untrained opponent accurate? Is that a consensus thing?
That might have been the case in the old days, when Gracie Jiu-Jitsu was about fighting, but it is absolutely not the case with modern BJJ that is totally divorced from the reality of a fight. So no.
Thank you Senor Cat!

Based on your experience, how far has modern BJJ strayed from being a "fighting art?" In what ways is it no longer about fighting?

Is this a more recent thing? Like when you were still heavily in it, was it still more about fighting?

Has it veered so far into the realm of sport that it's use for self defense has been compromised?

Lot's of questions.

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Re: BJJ Purple Belt Question

Post by Fat Cat » Mon May 04, 2020 9:03 pm

newguy wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 7:42 pm
Based on your experience, how far has modern BJJ strayed from being a "fighting art?" In what ways is it no longer about fighting?
Almost total. It still takes coordination, timing, strength, cardiovascular endurance, and presence of mind but that's about as far as it goes. Virtually no one trains against strikes, trains takedowns or standing grappling, or in anything other than a totally sanitized padded playroom. Taken as a whole, it has nothing to do with fighting anymore.
newguy wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 7:42 pm
Is this a more recent thing? Like when you were still heavily in it, was it still more about fighting?
This is the basic trajectory of all martial arts. It becomes popularized by a hardcore elite wrecking crew but then falls into the hands of the reddit nerd types who really aren't comfortable with actual violence. It happened with judo (WWII Japanese war criminals), with karate/TKD (WWII and Korean war vets), and it happened to GJJ (tropical fascist military death squads). Now you can find us all at teh strip mall with color-coordinated gis. :vom:
newguy wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 7:42 pm
Has it veered so far into the realm of sport that it's use for self defense has been compromised?
I dunno. There's some absolute studs out there but for the most part, I'd pick a wild banger from Waianae over your average BJJ faggot in spanks and lycra. Sorry to be such a black pill, but TBH, most people are nice, and nice people really don't have any use for killing or brutally beating people retarded.

Basically, taichi push hands has more in common with a real fight than modern BJJ.
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Re: BJJ Purple Belt Question

Post by motherjuggs&speed » Mon May 04, 2020 10:19 pm

Fat Cat wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 9:03 pm
I dunno. There's some absolute studs out there but for the most part, I'd pick a wild banger from Waianae over your average BJJ faggot in spanks and lycra. Sorry to be such a black pill, but TBH, most people are nice, and nice people really don't have any use for killing or brutally beating people retarded.
Most people are not nice. They are vicious. If you mean that most people hate and fear confrontation and direct use of violence, that's true.

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Re: BJJ Purple Belt Question

Post by Fat Cat » Tue May 05, 2020 1:00 am

It was a poor choice of words, perhaps "mild" is better. I don't mean that people aren't venal, just that they're fundamentally cowards.
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Re: BJJ Purple Belt Question

Post by Ripe Turd » Tue May 05, 2020 1:41 am

Fat Cat wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 9:03 pm
newguy wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 7:42 pm
Based on your experience, how far has modern BJJ strayed from being a "fighting art?" In what ways is it no longer about fighting?
Almost total. It still takes coordination, timing, strength, cardiovascular endurance, and presence of mind but that's about as far as it goes. Virtually no one trains against strikes, trains takedowns or standing grappling, or in anything other than a totally sanitized padded playroom. Taken as a whole, it has nothing to do with fighting anymore.
newguy wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 7:42 pm
Is this a more recent thing? Like when you were still heavily in it, was it still more about fighting?
This is the basic trajectory of all martial arts. It becomes popularized by a hardcore elite wrecking crew but then falls into the hands of the reddit nerd types who really aren't comfortable with actual violence. It happened with judo (WWII Japanese war criminals), with karate/TKD (WWII and Korean war vets), and it happened to GJJ (tropical fascist military death squads). Now you can find us all at teh strip mall with color-coordinated gis. :vom:
newguy wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 7:42 pm
Has it veered so far into the realm of sport that it's use for self defense has been compromised?
I dunno. There's some absolute studs out there but for the most part, I'd pick a wild banger from Waianae over your average BJJ faggot in spanks and lycra. Sorry to be such a black pill, but TBH, most people are nice, and nice people really don't have any use for killing or brutally beating people retarded.

Basically, taichi push hands has more in common with a real fight than modern BJJ.
I've seen my share of karate (yes, even in kyokushin) black belts who were unfit, slow, and frankly not people I would "want on my side in a fight". By this, I mean that sometimes (or often, depending on school) belts are awarded on other factors than "ability to fight."

Let's put aside fights including guns, knives, broken glass bottles. Would the average BJJ black belt be able to, with confidence, either be able to deflect, or fight if need to, the angry neighbor who drank a couple beers? Or the aggressive asshole who skips the line at McDonalds?
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Re: BJJ Purple Belt Question

Post by Fat Cat » Tue May 05, 2020 1:54 am

I don't like those types of questions, they're just too precious, but the average black belt? I hope so. But so could a rec center judoka or boxer, with half the training time.

As with everything else in life, it always comes down to the quality of the man himself.
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Re: BJJ Purple Belt Question

Post by motherjuggs&speed » Tue May 05, 2020 2:53 am

I've had no real training but I agree with FC's assessment. It's like J.B. Books said, a lot is being willing. Most people aren't. This is true even of some professional fighters. They can all run through me but some aren't willing to get after guys who they consider dangerous to them.


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Re: BJJ Purple Belt Question

Post by motherjuggs&speed » Tue May 05, 2020 4:38 am


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Re: BJJ Purple Belt Question

Post by Alfred_E._Neuman » Tue May 05, 2020 12:10 pm

Most people are just averse to violence against other people on any level, but especially at the up-close-and-personal level of an unarmed physical confrontation.
I remember reading that when teaching knife techniques, the hardest thing for the military to drill into people's heads is that the knife is a stabbing weapon, not a slashing weapon. There's just a human inhibition on getting close and running the blade in. Sniper rifle is much less personal. sitting behind the screen and piloting a drone, well that may as well be a video game.
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