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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:44 pm 
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And for that matter his precision kettlebells, VFWorkout, AKC, etc.?

I have been out of the loop developing other things for a while now but have been easing back into kettlebell training over the past year or so. As I do, I see a lot of valuable traces of Fedorenko's work between say 2008 and 2015 but then it all just vanishes.

For example his Fundamentals DVD is great, but I went to look at other videos on YouTube and they've been removed. Even the old WKC website is just click-funnel to a bundle deal on his DVDs.

What happened?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 1:53 pm 
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The Russians.

VF correctly wanted to keep the Russians OUT of the North American Kettlebell scene as much as possible. Not coaching, but involved in organization and managing competitions.
The reason for this was that the kettlebell lifting, as a sport, needed some shakedown and consolidation while building it's popularity.
Alas, it was not to be, certain factions sought out better coaches than VF, and one thing lead to another and somehow, because certain nascent organizations were looking for validation from sport authorities, the Russians got involved.

There is still a bit of back and forth.

Ken Blackburn and the IKFF have been relegated to minor roles, despite having put on the most successful and largest competitions in the sport. The OKC has their role, which is mostly out west in California, and they hold a big meet or two every year. And the AKC/WKC just really got pushed out of the way. Despite VF's last kb design being fantastic, they don't even make them anymore because of Russian influence.

I've been out of the scene since I moved to Texas, really.

I don't know what the dominant organization is right now, or how consolidated things are.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:36 pm 
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Thanks for giving me some insight Shaf. It'd would be even more fun if you would NAME NAMES. =P~

I've been giving a fair amount of thought to how one could apply the knowledge and experience of guys like Fedorenko, Rachinsky, and Rudnev to training with kettlebells for general fitness as opposed to kettlebell sport. Although I have no real desire to compete in GS, there's a gold mine of information there for training.

So I started going down the rabbit hole of various feds and approaches...GS Strong Sport, GS Pentathlon, Pantelis Filikidis-style ultraheavy training, etc. As I did, it was hard to miss the fact that everything starts to peter out around 2013 or so and by 2015 the river had run dry. New materials wasn't being posted, websites were defunct, etc.

It's interesting to me that even the late-comers to the party like Rudnev's IKSFA seems more or less just a poster hanging in the back of the traveling certification roadshow. Same way with Cotter et al. It seems like the siren-song of easy cert money is too hard to resist, but to the detriment of really building something lasting in terms of KB organization.

One thing I'm dying to see is the WKC/AKC fitness program...does anyone know where you can find that?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:27 pm 
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Rudnev now training in very strange ways, his main goal is "train for fun". https://vk.com/id439810884?z=video43981 ... _439810884

And he still coaching and competin abroad.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 12:34 am 
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Fun? Training? Anyway, I know he is or was a military instructor, I would love to know his prescription for gpp for soldiers or--even better--grapplers. Have you ever seen anything like that on the Russian interweebz?

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:59 am 
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Have you ever seen anything like that on the Russian interweebz?
No.
He just regularly upload new videos with some crazy exersizes.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:53 pm 
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It kind of happened when I wasn't much involved anymore after my move to Texas.

Yuri Petunovs takeover of the AKA and coopting all of North and South American kettlebell lifting was the thing that aggravated the most. Yuri somehow got enough people on the east coast backing his play to make it happen. After the AKA became the gateway to international competition the road got rougher.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:54 pm 
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I'll look for the AKC fitness program, Mak. I think I have it somewhere

It was all one handed stuff and it was all timed, IIRC


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:00 pm 
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The AKC fitness framework


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AKC Fitness Framework.pdf [82.49 KiB]
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:01 pm 
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That document contains the minimum information to do the AKC fitness program


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 6:04 pm 
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It kind of happened when I wasn't much involved anymore after my move to Texas.

Yuri Petunovs takeover of the AKA and coopting all of North and South American kettlebell lifting was the thing that aggravated the most. Yuri somehow got enough people on the east coast backing his play to make it happen. After the AKA became the gateway to international competition the road got rougher.
First of all, thank you very much for providing me with that template. I will go through it tonight and it may generate some discussion.

Second, what is the relationship of the AKA to the AKC/WKC? I get confused, it didn't take very long for GS to devolve into PL-style alphabet soup.

Third, what does Fedorenko do now? It's odd because I occasionally get the click-funnel type emails from him for his DVDs...which are really good from what I've seen...but he doesn't seem active at all. He also seems incredibly knowledgeable but utterly inflexible in his views. Does he still actively coach? Is he even in America anymore? Before I destroyed my facebook it seemed like maybe he was back in Kazakhstan.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 6:20 pm 
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I think VF is washing cars in the Simi Valley for Lenny Dykstra or Something.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 6:53 pm 
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Quote:
The AKC fitness framework
Hey Shaf (or anyone else) do you know what relationship that this template has to the WKC "Elite Fitness Protocol" that had named workouts like "Redwood".

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:11 pm 
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Fixometer was good idea, but world wasn't ready :)


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:07 pm 
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The named workouts were combos of the different single bell lifts for varying work and rest ratios. I’m slowly piecing together something geared towards the average populace.

For most folks I’d favor single bell lifts working toward longer time frames. I’ve been experimenting with half marathon (30 mins) clean and push press. This mixed with my normal GS and BW stuff has been pretty solid in terms of increasing a little size and overall work capacity on and off the mats. I find that varying the time per hands and such can help with the ability to go longer in a single set.

As it stands, average joe could do way worse than mixing pentathlon and some strong sport sets along with a little calisthenics and a run here and there. The best thing I can say about GS type training is it hits a very unique niche in terms of strength and cardio development without the impact of grinding movements or running.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:08 pm 
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No idea. Nightman and Ed Zachary still compete in GS sometimes, Cimes just started a new log here but seems to not be doing kb stuff much anymore. She'd be your inside person on what VF is doing now, I'd bet


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:36 pm 
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The named workouts were combos of the different single bell lifts for varying work and rest ratios. I’m slowly piecing together something geared towards the average populace.

For most folks I’d favor single bell lifts working toward longer time frames. I’ve been experimenting with half marathon (30 mins) clean and push press. This mixed with my normal GS and BW stuff has been pretty solid in terms of increasing a little size and overall work capacity on and off the mats. I find that varying the time per hands and such can help with the ability to go longer in a single set.

As it stands, average joe could do way worse than mixing pentathlon and some strong sport sets along with a little calisthenics and a run here and there. The best thing I can say about GS type training is it hits a very unique niche in terms of strength and cardio development without the impact of grinding movements or running.
Thanks for chiming in, Pikey. I'm not sure that many people will ever be interested in lifting continuously for 30 or 60 minutes, but I agree that the Pentathlon has a lot to offer. I have played around with that and it seems to offer a great deal to the average person like me, and it's easy to break it up and do 2-4 of the exercises for 6 minutes a pop and get a great workout with variety within and between workouts. Plus, 6 minutes is an easily achieved number.

I also like the workout VF puts in his Fundamentals DVD: ten fundamental exercises, ten reps per hand. You can do it light and non-stop, or heavy with rest periods, or break it in half for multiple workouts and up the reps, etc.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:48 am 
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Honestly, I’m not sure what he is doing these days. I can’t remember the last time I saw him or spoke with him on the phone

Eric and I have exchanged emails within the last 6 months and I plan to visit Alex in Colorado (the guy who did a lot of their web stuff and then the Fix-O-Meter ).

I’m very out of touch and haven’t done a good job at staying in touch with anyone. Lopa and talked recently, but that’s about it.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:21 am 
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Honestly, I’m not sure what he is doing these days. I can’t remember the last time I saw him or spoke with him on the phone

Eric and I have exchanged emails within the last 6 months and I plan to visit Alex in Colorado (the guy who did a lot of their web stuff and then the Fix-O-Meter ).

I’m very out of touch and haven’t done a good job at staying in touch with anyone. Lopa and talked recently, but that’s about it.
Interesting. A couple of questions if you're willing.

Do you know why he stopped coaching? Or why he stopped running the WKC and selling kettlebells?

Also, out of genuine curiosity, why did you stop training? Did you just get burned out or bored?

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"One's actions alone define whether one belongs to a good family or a bad family, valiant or arrogant, and disciplined or undisciplined." -Lord Rāma, Rāmāyaṇa


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 2:55 am 
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Quote:
The named workouts were combos of the different single bell lifts for varying work and rest ratios. I’m slowly piecing together something geared towards the average populace.

For most folks I’d favor single bell lifts working toward longer time frames. I’ve been experimenting with half marathon (30 mins) clean and push press. This mixed with my normal GS and BW stuff has been pretty solid in terms of increasing a little size and overall work capacity on and off the mats. I find that varying the time per hands and such can help with the ability to go longer in a single set.

As it stands, average joe could do way worse than mixing pentathlon and some strong sport sets along with a little calisthenics and a run here and there. The best thing I can say about GS type training is it hits a very unique niche in terms of strength and cardio development without the impact of grinding movements or running.
Thanks for chiming in, Pikey. I'm not sure that many people will ever be interested in lifting continuously for 30 or 60 minutes, but I agree that the Pentathlon has a lot to offer. I have played around with that and it seems to offer a great deal to the average person like me, and it's easy to break it up and do 2-4 of the exercises for 6 minutes a pop and get a great workout with variety within and between workouts. Plus, 6 minutes is an easily achieved number.

I also like the workout VF puts in his Fundamentals DVD: ten fundamental exercises, ten reps per hand. You can do it light and non-stop, or heavy with rest periods, or break it in half for multiple workouts and up the reps, etc.
Oh I agree. Then again, folks run on a treadmill for that long. Kettlebell marathon sport is an actual thing and it seems to be growing. Who knows. My point is that single bell work similar to what you mentioned fits very well into an “everyman” routine.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 3:47 am 
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Timed sets with kettlebells are indeed quite unique. Lots of exercise and the ability to fuck yourself up (in a good way) in a short period of time. The problem with Fedorenko was "grab more and throw further" approach. He is a talented athlete, but has no background in sport science and doesn't seem to have an idea of coaching people. Shit, how many fights we had here about this. I suspect most of those still interested in GS slowly defected to Rudnev.

On a different note, I really would like to come across data on the transfer of physical attributes from GS (long timed sets) to other sports. No luck so far.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 3:58 am 
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Quote:
Honestly, I’m not sure what he is doing these days. I can’t remember the last time I saw him or spoke with him on the phone

Eric and I have exchanged emails within the last 6 months and I plan to visit Alex in Colorado (the guy who did a lot of their web stuff and then the Fix-O-Meter ).

I’m very out of touch and haven’t done a good job at staying in touch with anyone. Lopa and talked recently, but that’s about it.
Interesting. A couple of questions if you're willing.

Do you know why he stopped coaching? Or why he stopped running the WKC and selling kettlebells?

Also, out of genuine curiosity, why did you stop training? Did you just get burned out or bored?
I don't know that he did stop coaching completely. I wouldn't be surprised if he were still coaching and training folks in person and virtually. I probably should reach out and ask since I consider him a friend. I know they ended up selling most of their inventory and they sort of got tired of dealing with mfg issues/quality control out of china. Also, I know there was something up with Rogue, but I can't remember the details of it. I'm sure the equipment business with the likes of Rogue around is really tough.

I didn't get burned out or bored really. I may have been burned out on the politics, but that wasn't the reason I haven't trained in KBs seriously since early 2017. My training regimen switched to mainly running and a lot of walking out of necessity. I was staying in a different place every 1-2 weeks last year over 5 months (mainly due to family and work). My friends were calling me a sofa-surfing hobo. I've finally settled a bit and started back to some barbell training and recently started incorporating swings with the KBs at the gym. I'll either get some of my bells from my ex's house in St. Louis at some point or buy a couple here when I decide to take up snatching again - but right now, I can keep myself busy doing swings after my barbell training at the gym.

CI

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:08 pm 
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Ah ok, well that makes sense. Let us know if you do find out what he's up to. I'm very curious about what his prescriptions are for the general fitness crowd, as opposed to the ride-or-die GS people. To me it seems like a lot of the basic exercises, methods, techniques, etc carryover but that you have a lot more flexibility:

Timed sets, but no reason to obsess about 10 minute sets. Longer or shorter, whatever makes sense.

One or two bells, no need to mimic sport.

Snatch, jerk, and LCCJ are great exercises but of course you can do others for more variety and less overuse injury and boredom.

Like that basically. And because you aren't in full specificity mode, you can throw in other non-KB exercises like pullups or pushups for variety, muscle building, etc.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:10 pm 
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Timed sets with kettlebells are indeed quite unique. Lots of exercise and the ability to fuck yourself up (in a good way) in a short period of time. The problem with Fedorenko was "grab more and throw further" approach. He is a talented athlete, but has no background in sport science and doesn't seem to have an idea of coaching people. Shit, how many fights we had here about this. I suspect most of those still interested in GS slowly defected to Rudnev.

On a different note, I really would like to come across data on the transfer of physical attributes from GS (long timed sets) to other sports. No luck so far.
I am extremely curious if you have ever seen Rudnev talk about training people for wrestling, MMA, or even just general fitness. I mean he runs the International Kettlebell Sport and FITNESS Association so...what does he think constitutes effective training for fitness? Any ideas? Unfortunately there's not much from him in chest-greasy lie-English.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:13 pm 
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Oh I agree. Then again, folks run on a treadmill for that long. Kettlebell marathon sport is an actual thing and it seems to be growing. Who knows. My point is that single bell work similar to what you mentioned fits very well into an “everyman” routine.
Absolutely, agreed. For most people looking for the general fitness benefits of kettlebell work, single arm work is fine. An excellent balance of strength and endurance, even some flexibility, in not much time.

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