Where did all the real niggas go?

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Fat Cat
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Where did all the real niggas go?

Post by Fat Cat » Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:00 pm

Jump in your wayback machine and travel with me to a time, not so long ago, when kettlebells weren't just an exercise tool they were a gravitational field of conflict and animosity.

It was a lovely time, when OTW vs. Hardstyle battles raged and occupied countless hours and gigabytes of posts, all from pompous assholes with little experience and even less perspective.

No one, anywhere could post a kettlebell video without some opinionated asswipe fresh from a $$$ cert weighing in on some aspect of form, as if they were Fedorenko or Rachinsky himself.

Pavel was like a kettlebell Moses, having descended from Mt. Horeb with the RKC tablets inscribed by God, even though his video made it perfectly clear to anyone who knew anything about kettlebell lifting that not only was he not a Master of Sport, he was a fibbing little snakeoil salesman who learned more about lifting on this side of the pond than he ever did in the good ol' USSR.

So my question is: where are all these people now? What happened to the kettlebell explosion? Where have all the GS wannabes gone? Where the real niggas at?
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Re: Where did all the real niggas go?

Post by SubClaw » Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:16 pm

The only one who seems to be doing nicely is Steve Maxwell and, maybe, Max Shank. I specifically didn’t mention Dan John because he is not a KB guy per se.

All the others senior RKCs (Mahler, Cotter, Reifkind, Neupert, Read...) are somewhat “diluted”.

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Re: Where did all the real niggas go?

Post by Howieeeeee » Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:20 pm

They all quickly learned that training GS is some hard shit, so they split.

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Re: Where did all the real niggas go?

Post by Fat Cat » Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:46 pm

Howieeeeee wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:20 pm
They all quickly learned that training GS is some hard shit, so they split.
Try to be less succinct and accurate, you're ruining the discussion. I actually think that there's almost no way to sugarcoat that basic shitty fact. It's hard, it's not fun, it's boring, and unless you have no options it's not likely to be a desirable pursuit.

BUT

Kettlebell training, more generally, can be incredibly fun and useful and especially if it is informed by the knowledge and methods developed by GS guys but applied more generally.
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Re: Where did all the real niggas go?

Post by Howieeeeee » Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:17 pm

I attended more than a few of those $$$ certs back in the day.

AKC one-day Fitness Trainer cert - my introduction to GS; all one-hand lifts, good way to get started, introduced to the Fitness "Protocol" - not bad
AKC two-day Coaches cert - not much new introduced except for lifting doubles; introduced to the Pentathlon which I never liked
IKFF two-day cert - good cert in that it covered just about everything under the sun from GS to HS lifts
IKSFA Level I two-day cert - learned from Rudnev and Rachinsky, good technique instruction, touched lightly on programming
IKSFA Level II two-day cert - Rudnev taught programming more in depth, this was worth the price of admission, but still lacking in some areas

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Re: Where did all the real niggas go?

Post by Fat Cat » Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:30 pm

What did Rudnev teach you about programming? That sounds interesting.
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Re: Where did all the real niggas go?

Post by Howieeeeee » Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:54 pm

It's how he orders successive sets. I like to call it "backfilling".

For example, if you are training 24kg long cycle, your first set (after warmup) might be 1' at 8 rpm. Then you rest. Your second set might be 20kg long cycle for 1' at 10 rpm. Then you rest. And finally your third and last set might be 16kg long for 4' at 12 rpm.

So you successively get a bit lighter and a bit faster following your training weight set. Same applies pretty much to each of the sport lifts not counting for slight variations on the theme.

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Re: Where did all the real niggas go?

Post by Fat Cat » Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:51 pm

Gotcha, very interesting. I'll have to think about that.
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Re: Where did all the real niggas go?

Post by Sangoma » Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:16 am

The story of kettlebells in the West is almost carbon copy of the Karate wave in the USSR in 1979 to early eighties. Almost overnight everyone was a karateka, and schools appeared on every corner. It lasted about 10 years and then slowly faded away, with on;y a few dedicated trainees remaining loyal. There is Karate in Russia now, but the interest is nowhere near the initial.

Kettlebells - very similar pattern. Mid-naughties onwards everyone knew about metal balls with handles. Everyone who posted three times on Dragondoor forum was an expert and played along the Pavel's "comrade" theme. There were some good guys produced very good material. And a lot of stupid shit (I remember 2 DVD set on TGU). Then, to complicate things, there was GS and its freshly crowned king Fedorenko. Boy, the bile spilled over his methods on this board...

I think everything came to the middle. kettlebells don't cure cancer anymore. I still have Steve Cotter's KB Encyclopedia that has (I think) 55 KB exercises. What do we have now - swing, snatch, clean, variations of press, double KB squat and TGU? I guess kettlebells have become - as many posters here said they should - another training tool in the big picture of training.
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Re: Where did all the real niggas go?

Post by Fat Cat » Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:49 am

Lol true. Imagine if people argued about dumbbells the way they did about kettlebells. But there's really no fun at all in measured pragmatism, is there? Exhibit A: the modern political landscape.
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Re: Where did all the real niggas go?

Post by JimZipCode » Thu Jul 19, 2018 3:16 pm

Who's the guy who did the hand-to-hand and juggling stuff? Was it Martone?

I always thought that stuff looked fun & interesting. Lots of rotational strength and strength at odd-angles; maybe real useful for a grappler and striker. Or maybe just goofy fun shit, I don't know (never tried it).
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Re: Where did all the real niggas go?

Post by SubClaw » Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:06 pm

JimZipCode wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 3:16 pm
Who's the guy who did the hand-to-hand and juggling stuff? Was it Martone?

I always thought that stuff looked fun & interesting. Lots of rotational strength and strength at odd-angles; maybe real useful for a grappler and striker. Or maybe just goofy fun shit, I don't know (never tried it).
If all you did was juggling and carrying a 48 kg. bell for, say, half an hour sessions, you could be awesome.

Thing is, juggling is quite hard to program, so it’s better to do it as a finisher of sorts.

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Re: Where did all the real niggas go?

Post by Grandpa's Spells » Thu Jul 19, 2018 5:22 pm

There's a kettlebell gym a couple miles from my place, which I never thought I'd see.

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Re: Where did all the real niggas go?

Post by Hanglow Joe » Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:27 pm

Juggling is a broken finger waiting to happen. I still use them at least 3x a week. I think you can only reinvent stuff so much.

The comrade BS was great schtick. DD cannibalized itself going all in on the bodyweight/Coach Wade Convict Conditioning stuff. Pavel leaves, creates StrongFirst, which is ok, and then puts out Simple and Sinister, which has basically ruined everything.

Do this program every day and it will cure cancer. WTF? TGU's and one Hand swings, the workout is basically a finisher not an entree. There is so much you can do with a kettlebell and so many exercises, this Is what you are going to go all in on?

These dumbasses say they've added an inch to their arms, the what the hell effect after 2 weeks. It's a joke.

A great workout tool, nothing more, nothing less

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Re: Where did all the real niggas go?

Post by Fat Cat » Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:47 pm

Hanglow Joe wrote:
Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:27 pm
Pavel leaves, creates StrongFirst, which is ok, and then puts out Simple and Sinister, which has basically ruined everything.
LMAO that's hilarious, sad, and completely accurate. The reddit kettlebell section is an actual human centipede of heads up asses over SS. I actually really do like the program, too, but it's seemed to suck all the air out of the room as far as kettlebells in America go.

I still use KBs in every workout tho.
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Re: Where did all the real niggas go?

Post by Hanglow Joe » Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:42 am

Never followed it. Tested with an 88 and did both the getups and 100 swings at once. Didn't see the hype.

I like kettlebells because. can get my heart rate high and lift heavy at the same time. Way past the bench press set, wait 3 minutes, next set.

Pavel hasn't put out anything in years. Even he has drained the milk from the udder

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Re: Where did all the real niggas go?

Post by Fat Cat » Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:23 pm

I assumed that this StrongEndurance shit is the new frontier for him, no?
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Re: Where did all the real niggas go?

Post by Hanglow Joe » Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:30 pm

Fat Cat wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:23 pm
I assumed that this StrongEndurance shit is the new frontier for him, no?
this stupid A + A thing that has been hyped over there? Sounds like the next Z Health to me....

$895 a true snake oil grab for fools to part with their money.

Do 10 explosive swings on the minute for 40 minutes. Fuck that

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Re: Where did all the real niggas go?

Post by Fat Cat » Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:01 pm

I know right? First of all, GreenGhost was doing that shit 15 years ago, and second of all what a fucking boring way to train. If you are training for 40 minutes doing that, let's be generous and say that it takes 20 seconds to finish your set, then you pause for 40.

There 2,400 seconds in 40 minutes.

Of those, 800 (13 1/2 minutes or so) are spent exercising.

The remaining 1,600 (26 1/2 minutes) are spent resting.

So in a 40 minute program, your are basically exercising for only 13 minutes, resting for 26, and you haven't actually done anything that you would actually want to endure at like running, swimming, or climbing.
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Re: Where did all the real niggas go?

Post by Fat Cat » Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:06 pm

Also, lol at calling anything AA. Get met out! :drinkers:
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Re: Where did all the real niggas go?

Post by SubClaw » Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:34 pm

Hanglow Joe wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:30 pm
$895 a true snake oil grab for fools to part with their money.
What the actual fuck...?

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Re: Where did all the real niggas go?

Post by Fat Cat » Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:53 pm

Comrade, an article please.
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Re: Where did all the real niggas go?

Post by Hanglow Joe » Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:29 pm


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Re: Where did all the real niggas go?

Post by Hanglow Joe » Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:36 pm

Here is a review from someone who attended last year
http://www.pikeathletics.com/blog/strongendurance-recap

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Re: Where did all the real niggas go?

Post by Sangoma » Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:26 pm

No offence guys, but these comments are common for runners, for example, who switched to Maffetone training. They feel like they're doing nothing.

The idea behind long rest is to stay out lactic acidosis - which builds aerobic biochemistry which later becomes useful for building other qualities on top of that. Part of the current concept of Polarized Training, which is the current rave among the professionals, just try a search of this key phrase on Google or PubMed. You gradually build reps and reduce rest, while staying at heart rate below your lactate threshold. That's the idea.

Now, if you pay in the next three days I will give you a 50% discount off the original $850.
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