IGX "...overflowing with foulmouthed ignorance."

IGX "...overflowing with foulmouthed ignorance."
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 Post subject: Kettlebells for Running
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:25 pm 
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So, the Strong Endurance shit talk on the other thread got me thinking...what is the IGX hivemind consensus about:

1. the value of KBs for running.
2. the exercises of most value for running.
3. the methodology for using KBs as a running-specific conditioning tool.

I know that Cerutty was all about dat heavy-swing life, but I'm wondering what you all know?

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Last edited by Fat Cat on Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:52 pm 
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I think kettlebells do add value and supplement running.

Heavy swings or snatches as well as Complexes and Chains. Not the Simple and Sinister bullshit, but 20 swings on the minute for 20-30 minutes help.

So from a conditioning perspective it helps, but in order to get better at running you need to run.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:59 pm 
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Almost every ‘girevik’ competitor does long, slow distance to supplement their training. So, conversely, long cycle and its many variations must be useful for running too.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:11 pm 
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Maaaaayyyybe, but not necessarily. Deadlifting might be good for running, but I don't know many people who think that running is good for deadlifting. What does "good for" mean in terms of KBs and running? In my mind, it should either:

1. Make you run faster.
2. Help you run longer.
3. Reduce chances of injury.

Do you think you can make an argument that kettlebells do any of the above? And if you were trying to get that training effect, how would you approach obtaining it?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:05 pm 
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I ran a 100 mile race while doing long cycle -3-5 times a week. I ran one while doing Simple & Sinister 5 days a week.
I've run one while doing a mix of both, plus body weight stuff.
Probably none of it made any difference specifically but probably most of it helped too.
I do know that I ran my first 50k after several years of heavy GS and very light running - I took about 3 months of specific training ultra training (mainly just double long runs on the weekends) while maintaining my GS routine (AKC - one money set, followed by some heavy one arm stuff) and ended up having a great first race experience and placed pretty well. I maintained this for a year or two all the way through my first 50 miler and after which I made some changes. Things became harder when I added speed work in, extra hill repeats and stuff to make me a better runner. My lifting suffered for sure. So I reached that point where there was a trade off and I chose ultras and did my best just to keep whatever strength I could. In retrospect, I probably could have done fairly well just continuing with the GS with only being a little bit slower overall. Now that I'm doing ultras with less emphasis on time and mainly just going for the finish I hope to gain some strength back. Just my experience.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:59 am 
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Hypothetically speaking, running entails long runs and intervals. KBs can be used for imitating either, probably more so for high intensity. Probably also for supplementary stuff, strength and power.

My wife was a State level runner in her teens (800m and 400m with hurdles). She remembers doing jumps on two parallel benches with a kettlebell. 16 kg, 10 reps, up to 5 sets. Mind you, her bodyweight was 47-49kg, so it was heavy.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:52 pm 
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Box jumps holding a kettlebell sounds rugged AF.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:39 pm 
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Stumbled.
He is spear thrower.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:44 pm 
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Quote:
Stumbled.
He is spear thrower.
He doesn't look black.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:58 pm 
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not for running, but still interesting.
always wanted to throw kettlebell for distance, but never tried :)


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:55 am 
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There may be a trainer who knows how to use kbs as an effective interval training tool. But I don’t know how to use them to improve running other than doing lots of swings and one armed work when the weather is too bad to run.
OTOH, running is fantastic for GS athletes.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:49 pm 
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Quote:
I ran a 100 mile race while doing long cycle -3-5 times a week. I ran one while doing Simple & Sinister 5 days a week.
I've run one while doing a mix of both, plus body weight stuff.
Probably none of it made any difference specifically but probably most of it helped too.
I do know that I ran my first 50k after several years of heavy GS and very light running - I took about 3 months of specific training ultra training (mainly just double long runs on the weekends) while maintaining my GS routine (AKC - one money set, followed by some heavy one arm stuff) and ended up having a great first race experience and placed pretty well. I maintained this for a year or two all the way through my first 50 miler and after which I made some changes. Things became harder when I added speed work in, extra hill repeats and stuff to make me a better runner. My lifting suffered for sure. So I reached that point where there was a trade off and I chose ultras and did my best just to keep whatever strength I could. In retrospect, I probably could have done fairly well just continuing with the GS with only being a little bit slower overall. Now that I'm doing ultras with less emphasis on time and mainly just going for the finish I hope to gain some strength back. Just my experience.
Ericc, you have very impressive experience as a runner, wow! 100 miles seems pretty impossible to me right now. You say that you are still doing some ultras but when I glanced over your log it seemed like lots of walking and gymnastics...am I reading it wrong?

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:56 pm 
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A former DD turned strong sport guy, Britt Buckingham, made pretty good use of timed sets of OA swings to train HR and legs to avoid the impact injuries related to running. Ended up running a marathon without killing his knees with the mileage normally associated with training for one, I’d like to say he did about half the normal mileage that is recommended by most training programs. He still ran, but his volume was much less.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:31 am 
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Quote:
Quote:
I ran a 100 mile race while doing long cycle -3-5 times a week. I ran one while doing Simple & Sinister 5 days a week.
I've run one while doing a mix of both, plus body weight stuff.
Probably none of it made any difference specifically but probably most of it helped too.
I do know that I ran my first 50k after several years of heavy GS and very light running - I took about 3 months of specific training ultra training (mainly just double long runs on the weekends) while maintaining my GS routine (AKC - one money set, followed by some heavy one arm stuff) and ended up having a great first race experience and placed pretty well. I maintained this for a year or two all the way through my first 50 miler and after which I made some changes. Things became harder when I added speed work in, extra hill repeats and stuff to make me a better runner. My lifting suffered for sure. So I reached that point where there was a trade off and I chose ultras and did my best just to keep whatever strength I could. In retrospect, I probably could have done fairly well just continuing with the GS with only being a little bit slower overall. Now that I'm doing ultras with less emphasis on time and mainly just going for the finish I hope to gain some strength back. Just my experience.
Ericc, you have very impressive experience as a runner, wow! 100 miles seems pretty impossible to me right now. You say that you are still doing some ultras but when I glanced over your log it seemed like lots of walking and gymnastics...am I reading it wrong?
No, you're reading it right. I've been doing ultra/race walking for about a year now - no reason other than trying something new and I've found that I enjoy it a lot. But I still average an an ultra race a month or so and my overall time for the longer stuff has been about the same within an hour or so. I've also found that my running hasn't really suffered at all from the speedwalking. So that's a nice bonus. If you have an interest in ultras please feel free to reach out for some encouragement - it's easier than you think.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:04 am 
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Well the mountain that I do most of my running on, the one I just posted pictures of in my log, is where they hold the HURT100 so it's on my mind but I would need to vastly increase my mileage before I would ever consider doing that. That said, I can do the course--or any leg of the course--any time I like, so it would be a cool thing to train even if I never did the whole show. 24+ hours of running seems, I don't know, kinda dumb and kinda awesome at the same time.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:35 pm 
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My $0.02

Several years ago I trained these two middle aged nurses with kettlebells. They came in twice a week and learned the basics except I could never get them to snatch or clean.

Their big thing was running 5Ks.

The first race they did together post KBs was about 5 months after I started working with them. Both PRed by like 3 minutes. Which is great, but they were not fast 5kers.

I can only attribute it to the fact that they worked really hard with the kbs and they just got used to being tired.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:25 am 
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Well the mountain that I do most of my running on, the one I just posted pictures of in my log, is where they hold the HURT100 so it's on my mind but I would need to vastly increase my mileage before I would ever consider doing that. That said, I can do the course--or any leg of the course--any time I like, so it would be a cool thing to train even if I never did the whole show. 24+ hours of running seems, I don't know, kinda dumb and kinda awesome at the same time.
That’s my bucket list race. My surname is Hurt so it seems quite fitting. It’s hard because you have to finish each lap in a certain time. Not many people get to the last lap.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:13 pm 
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Let me know if you ever get out here to try it, that's my back yard.

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